four wheel steer trailers question

[richardmvaldez]

im looking to build a small trailer to tow behind a small car.
and i was wondering why there are no small four wheel frount steering trailers, like a wagon red rider type, or like pulling a car 4 flat. just asking i know this gets touched on from time to time. i'v heard things like hard to back up well so is a 2 wheel trailer. and with back brakes it would stop safely. just asking thanks

 

[Corbet]

I'm going to assume its all based on backing it up. A tandem tractor trailer combo is similar to what your describing but more like flat towing a vehicle. I've backed up my FJ40 behind the 80 when flat towing but its not pretty. Much easier on dirt so the front tires can slide or scrub. I worked in the shipping industry when younger. I never witness a driver attempt to back up a tandem.

A trailer based on a "wagon" would fix the front tire movement to the tongue of the trailer. That might make things easier? I've never tried backing a trailer designed that way. Only an actual wagon as a kid.

However, I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish as you describe a small trailer behind a small car. Neither of which would necessitate the capacity of a tandem axle trailer. So my only question is why?

 

[richardmvaldez]

tongue weight for one, drop and go, hook up would be easyer. un hooking and pushing into a camping spot or any were else.

 

[Herzlos]

A jockey wheel lets you do that much more conveniently for about $50. Ok it won't reduce the tongue weight when the trailer is full, but on a small trailer that's properly loaded it won't be an issue.

Just drop the jockey wheel, unhitch and push it about. It's probably easier to control as it'll pivot on the 2 main wheels and turn in it's length.

If you're getting any trailer, I'd seriously recommend spending some time trying to back up with it, because it's pretty handy to be able to do, and saves you having to unhitch it to push it out of parking lots


With a 4 wheel cart set-up, you're moving the wheels out to the corners, so the trailer is more stable, but you'll be lengthening the turning circle (I think) and making it almost impossible to back-up with. Then you'll need to have the front axle on a pivot to allow you to turn at all, giving you a pretty complex engineering challenge and a major weak point.

 

[Super Slow Rodeo]

im looking to build a small trailer to tow behind a small car.
and i was wondering why there are no small four wheel front steering trailers, like a wagon red rider type, or like pulling a car 4 flat. just asking I know this gets touched on from time to time. I've heard things like they are hard to back up well, but, so is a 2 wheel trailer. and with back brakes it would stop safely. just asking thanks

Why 4 wheels? If it's tongue weight then a 2 wheel trailer just needs to be balanced better. And since you're talking small trailer I have one like you are describing that I use behind my Yard Truck that is a pain to use because it wants to turn over in sharp turns. Forget backing it up. About 3 feet and you're done.


Don't think a 4 wheel trailer with wheels on the corners and steering in the front axle will work too well for off road or tight places. Ever watch the baggage trailers they use at the Airports? Course you really havn't even mentioned off road. I realize that you are asking about it for a pulling behind a small car, but here's how I dealt with towing through tight spaces in my trailer build.

I have been working on a 2 wheel trailer that steers. I haven't gotten enough done to the body to justify a build report yet. But the suspension and steering are finished. I stopped for the Summer and will get back on it and build the bodywork this Winter.
Here's a picture of the suspension with the wheels turned hard right. Oh and for perspective of it's size with it behind my little yard truck!
[URL="http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/Curtis-J/IFS%20Off%20Road%20Trailer%20Build/DSC02220.jpg"][URL="http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/Curtis-J/IFS%20Off%20Road%20Trailer%20Build/DSC02220.jpg"][URL="http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/Curtis-J/IFS%20Off%20Road%20Trailer%20Build/DSC02220.jpg"][/URL][/URL][/URL][URL="http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/Curtis-J/IFS%20Off%20Road%20Trailer%20Build/DSC02213.jpg"][URL="http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/Curtis-J/IFS%20Off%20Road%20Trailer%20Build/DSC02213.jpg"][/URL][/URL]
The body will look a lot like this build. I borrowed the picture so people can see what's in my head when I'm talking about.

The primary reason for the build was to haul my Adventure bike inside a body much like the ROAN trailer. And give me a real bed to sleep in with a pull out kitchen.
The back wall will be the loading ramp and the back 60% of the roof will raise uplike a clam shell so I can load the bike inside for towing. The trailer floor is 8 feet long. Enough room for the bike and a slide out kitchen in front of the front wheel.

I used an Isuzu Pickup front suspension on this and it will steer remotely from the cab using a 12 volt 400 lb ram for steering. And as you can see, it already has the propane and a fuel tank mounted. It will be pulled behind my SASed Rodeo Only mine will be a large hatchback for loading the bike inside and will incorporate a fold up bed on the left wall. A small door will be on the passengers side for access inside when the hatch and back ramp are closed. Much like a teardrop trailer. The back fuel tank will be for refueling the Motorcycle and my Rodeo when I get out far enough that running back into town would be impractical. That, or for when TEOTWASKI comes. Should be enough tounge weight when loaded for the fuel weight behind the axle to not be a problem.

I can steer it around trees and into the same best lines that I steer the Rodeo through. The weight penalty for a small car would also be a draw back. All that IFS steerable suspension is a lot heavier than a straight axle.

Just my 2 cents on this, since I've actually built one.
Well, almost!

 

[Mace]

Look up standard hay wagons. They do exactly what you are talking about.

 

[Fast Eddy]

With more than two wheels you need suspension that will articulate. With a 2 wheel trailer the articulation is in the hitch.

A cart benefits only from the fact that it will follow exactly in the wheel ruts of the pulling vehicle. I have pulled a train of 10 grape gondolas with a tractor. You can make a u-turn around a building and the last cart will be within a few inches of the wheel tracks of the first one. Even with only one it is very hard to back up.

A good trucker can back a tandem a short distance, but mostly they unhitch, drop the dolly and connect directly to the fifth-wheel on the tractor to load and unload.

 

[Thomasrt4]

Im looking in to the same thing. The problem i was having is suspension and a steering front end. This is what i have found.

 

[ntsqd]

Intriguing, torflex suspension combined with wagon steering. Illustration hints that they understand Ackerman too. Wonder how bad it bump-steers? ACVW front beams are notoriously tricky to set-up w/o bump-steer and this design is the same thing only with the trailing arms now leading arms.