Foundation/footing question

[KLF]

Does this footing look ok to you?



This is on the house being built next door to me. That concrete looks kinda ratty to me, not sure I would accept that. I also don't like how they left that big rock in the footing, but maybe it won't hurt anything.

I was also surprised there are no pins in the footings to tie the walls to the footing, just a shallow groove to act as a keyway. Is this normal?

Thoughts?

 

[snobdds]

It kinda hard to know what is totally going on here with just one picture, but I will take a shot.

The footer does not look to be deep enough to be below frost line. However, it does look like it is resting on top of another footer?

The cement looks to be poorly compacted.

The rock to me tells me that they did not put 6 inches of compacted "engineering base" below the footer for a solid surface to place the footer on.

The "pins" can be put in later with a hammer drill and some epoxy, but J bolts that are cemented in are always better.

I hope there is an inspector that catches this before the walls are put up...

 

[KLF]

Appreciate the response. Sorry the picture is poor quality.

The bottom of the footer is below frost, you can't see that from the pic. My concern is with the concrete, it just looks like it is not vibrated properly and too "stiff" of a mix was used. Too many voids. I teach a class in concrete mixing and design, so this does not strike me as a good mix. I would not accept it if it were my house.

I'm typing this from my kitchen, and I can see a concrete truck on site now, I assume they are pouring the walls. I also do not like that there are NO pins at the bottom of the walls. Half of the walls were formed when I took that photo, and I looked inside and there was no rebar, no pins. There's no way they hand drilled all the pins that would be needed.

My experience is not high, but I do know for the Habitat homes I've built, there are always pins in the footings prior to setting the forms for the walls. I also know that the code requires rebar if the walls are taller than 8'. Not sure if these are that tall.

Not sure if I should say something to the new neighbor. I don't want to be that nosy neighbor, but at the same time I hate shoddy work.

 

[snobdds]

If it was me, I would tell the new owners. I would tell them your background and you were just checking the workmanship because that is what you do for a living.

Now is the time to fix those mistakes and as a homeowner sinking a lot of money into the house, I would be very much appreciative of the heads up.

 

[KLF]

I just came back from the site, I'm too late to get pics of what's at the bottom of the walls or any rebar (or not), all the walls are poured. They are doing the final screeding and setting the sill bolts now. I took a bunch of photos with a real camera.

I introduced myself to the guy in charge on the foundation crew. He said they don't put pins in at the footings, just a keyway. Well, the keyway that I saw yesterday was pretty pathetic, like someone dragged a boot through the footing just before the concrete set.

I have a call into the new owner now, he's a nice guy, also an engineer (mechanical).

 

[titanpat57]

I would be careful getting too involved...if there is a problem between the homeowner and the contractor, you may be opening yourself up a position you don't want to be in. There is obviously a building permit?...I hope....and if the workmanship passes the building codes (which you and I obviously know it doesn't) there's not much you can do about it.

My observations are this.....

-Footing concrete looks to be inferior, in color as well as compaction

-Can't tell, but the footing appears to be sitting on another footing..has it been pinned? Is anyone taking cylinder tests for testing to verify concrete strength density?

According to local building codes in my area, and past building experience...

-The key way should be a minimum of 1-1/2" x 1-1/2"...2" x 2" being better.

-The footing should be a minimum of 42" deep (to the bottom) from finished grade.

-if the footing extends over a rock(or rock ledge) it should be drilled and pinned

-there should be a minimum of 5" on either side of the vertical wall (meaning if the wall is 8" thick, then the footing should at least 18" wide.

-there should be a #4 rebar stubbed up at least 1'every 2' O.C., and that should be then connected to rebar in the wall grid. If the slab is poured over the Wall, then the bars can sub up and bent over and tied into the slab with an additional horizontal member

I agree..there seems to be more things wrong than appears to be right...if there is a local building inspector on the site, he should be made to sign off on every concern, especially those which appear to not be to code. I would recommend your neighbor to employ a structural engineer, and do that immediately before the project proceeds any further..... I see you're in NH...so my guess would be your footing depth would be even deeper than in SE NY where I'm located.

 

[KLF]

I called the new owner last night and we talked. He was grateful that I called. But, he's not really sure what he can do at this point. His question was "what will happen if it's not correct?". I gave him a few scenarios, things like excessive cracks in the slab or walls, uneven settlement, water infiltration, etc. He is having a footing drain installed. He said he would talk to his GC about my concerns, but I'm sure he got the "well we always do it that way" story. It was also pretty sketchy that they poured concrete at 2:30 yesterday afternoon, and they were stripping forms at 7:00 this morning. Is this typical?

Truthfully, residential loads on foundations are actually rather low, which is why there is never testing of the concrete (cylinders or slump). Settlements are usually not an issue, as often the weight of the excavated soil from the basement is close to the weight of the structure.

I wouldn't trust the color of that photo, it's not the greatest camera. But, I really distrust that mix and how it's been placed. I have no doubt the key is not up to snuff, but again what are the chances that it will shift?

Stuff like this is why I will never have a house built, I would go mental, and I would be the customer from hell. My conscience is clear, so at this point I'm staying out of it.

 

[titanpat57]

I called the new owner last night and we talked. He was grateful that I called. But, he's not really sure what he can do at this point. His question was "what will happen if it's not correct?". I gave him a few scenarios, things like excessive cracks in the slab or walls, uneven settlement, water infiltration, etc. He is having a footing drain installed. He said he would talk to his GC about my concerns, but I'm sure he got the "well we always do it that way" story. It was also pretty sketchy that they poured concrete at 2:30 yesterday afternoon, and they were stripping forms at 7:00 this morning. Is this typical?

Truthfully, residential loads on foundations are actually rather low, which is why there is never testing of the concrete (cylinders or slump). Settlements are usually not an issue, as often the weight of the excavated soil from the basement is close to the weight of the structure.

I wouldn't trust the color of that photo, it's not the greatest camera. But, I really distrust that mix and how it's been placed. I have no doubt the key is not up to snuff, but again what are the chances that it will shift?

Stuff like this is why I will never have a house built, I would go mental, and I would be the customer from hell. My conscience is clear, so at this point I'm staying out of it.

When ever I used to pour footings and/or foundation walls as used to provide testing, it wasn't real expensive at the time, and was a cheap insurance policy if any questions arose. I also think it helped pave a sense of security for the rest of the job...the homeowner/building owner knew you cared about your work, and their job.

As far as that work in the picture, the real trouble would appear with a slight earth tremor....where a proper built structure will withstand it... a substandard one will not, and when there's foundation shift, there's structure shift. Now chances are nothing will happen, I've seen a lot worse, still standing today.

There's lots of great contractors out there...just a little tougher to find. Good workmanship and customer service never goes out of style.

 

[bkfj40]

snip

The cement looks to be poorly compacted.
...

The "pins" can be put in later with a hammer drill and some epoxy, but J bolts that are cemented in are always better.

I hope there is an inspector that catches this before the walls are put up...

I'll throw my University of Wyoming degree comments in here

it's concrete, not cement. Cement is only one component of the concrete.

J bolts are not always better. There are several tests that show that J bolts can straighten out under tension. Nomenclature has changed from calling them anchor bolts to anchor rods and materials has changed as well...

Lastly, I would be surprised if the inspector catches it, they might not even get out of the vehicle.

If it was my wall, I would be worried...

 

[KLF]

it's concrete, not cement. Cement is only one component of the concrete.

Ya, I let that one slide, but truthfully it is one of my pet peeves (no offense to snobbds). I tell my students calling it "cement" is like calling a loaf of bread "flour". It's only one ingredient in the recipe, and actually not even the majority ingredient. Same thing with the black stuff we drive on, most people call it "asphalt", but again, that is only one ingredient, the binder that holds it together. The real name is "bituminous concrete".

Other terms that I hate:

blow torch
cinder block

 

[bkfj40]

I live when someone calls it cinder block.


What would get me about this house under construction...if this is what you can see, what about the parts you didn't catch?

 

[KLF]

Ya, I know. I can't figure out how they poured the 8' high walls, and there was NO vibrator used at all.

 

[bkfj40]

Lots of water.



When I was down in Haiti, all the kids threw whatever rocks they could find into the concrete as you were placing it to make the concrete go further. Maybe these guys think that if you add water, you get more concrete.

 

[snobdds]

I'll throw my University of Wyoming degree comments in here

it's concrete, not cement. Cement is only one component of the concrete.

To an engineer, I can see how this could bug you. But, with semantics...it's the same thing.

I too went to the University of Wyoming, for whatever that says...

 

[PAToyota]

If it were one of my projects, they'd be ripping it out and starting over... What is with the pool of water? And all the trash laying around? The rock sticking out of the wall - is that at a doorway? Are they going to knock the rock out and patch it when they go to set the door?

Oh, and all the previous comments about unconsolidated concrete, lack of reinforcing, lack of anchor bolts, etc, etc, etc...

 

[Koffer]

well it is NH Maybe they are trying to do the whole "Live Free or Die" all in one shot

as for inspectors ,when my garage was built the dude didnt even get out of the truck , he stuck the "A ok" tag to my mail box in the street 150 feet away from where the footing were dug and the plans were stuck to a pole right at the site