Ford V8 swap

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ntsqd

ntsqd

technerd
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Rather than hijacking I thot that I'd start a new thread. From:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/239762-fj-60-vs-ford-bronco.html#post3636480

Mace said:
Merge the two and do a 60 with a 302 in it ;)
Click to expand...

I've a friend who's been pushing me to do exactly that instead of a Chebby.
What about the oil pan & clearing the front axle?
Will a 5.0 SEFI push a 60 around well enough that my ~2k lbs (loaded) trailer isn't going to drop me to a crawl on those steep climbs?
IMG_0269.jpg


The strikes against a Ford are that I've concluded after owning and driving both the AOD and the 700R4 that this truck will get a 700R4. That's non-negotiable at this point. Going with a 5.0 presents an adapter expense over going with a chebby.
 
it's not worth your time to screw with a 5.0 ford. What are you going to gain? 5.7 and newer GM SBC are proven swaps, have adapters and mounts allready on the market. Save some time and $$, go with a SBC 5.7 or newer GM small block.
 
I say go for it so I can decide if it's something I want to do down the road. If I don't go the diesel route then I'd like to seriously consider the 302, with a possible stroke to make it a 347. I've always heard that the Ford 302 blocks lasted longer compared to the SBC blocks. They have a higher content of nickel or something like that. I'm sure somebody here knows the specs. I love the 347 in my EB.

What about the 302 to an NV4500 to a Toybox to a split case? I would say go for a ZF, but I don't know what can bolt up behind it. Are you dead set on an auto?
 
seems like a fine idear to me..

DSCF1461.jpg
 
I'm headed towards going GM TBI or TPI (No OBD II engines! BTDT, never again!), but I thought that I'd ask the question before I make an engine purchase.

I'll be making the mounts either way. Somehow the idea of using flathead Ford engine mounts (AA) doesn't sit well. Might work, might be fine, not what I want. I'll build something like these:
4WD_460_2.JPG


I come from Fords, having owned a series of them (including an Early Bronco) prior the FJ60. I have most of an SEFI system's hardware sitting in the garage's mezzanine. So there's more familiarity and spare parts there. That would be the big advantage for me over going with a GM. That being said, I'm not opposed to the GM, just exploring options before I commit.

I'm dead-set on the 700. I have no use for a manual trans. I already own enough of those. The expected use of the FJ (camping, towing (trailer above & a Baja), GF driving, etc.) just doesn't make it the best option for me.
I grew to dislike the large D-OD ratio step in the AOD that I had in the '67 Ranchero, and by the time I get an equivalent 1st ratio in one I've more than paid for an outright 700R4 from bowtieoverdrives.com.

Mace, any more pics of that one?
 
cruiser88 said:
How are those lifters?
Click to expand...

Stellar..

The poly locks were the ticket..

NT, that is my Daily driver Bob, I have as many pics as you want.

Slightly warmed mustang motor/C6/203/splitcase.


Gets out of it's own way fairly well.

Wish I had an OD tho. I really want to get a 4wd AOD and build it up a bit.
 
I think mostly what I'm interested in is how the oil pump bulge in the oil pan clears the front differential. I'm assuming that the donor left you with a rear sump oil pan?
 
It is damn close. And I am using the dual sump mustang oil pan. And, I have a dent in the pan where the pumpkin kissed it a couple of times during install. I have to limit my uptravel or I will smack the pan again.

A rear sump would be better tho. Lots more clearance then.
 
ntsqd said:
I've a friend who's been pushing me to do exactly that instead of a Chebby.
Will a 5.0 SEFI push a 60 around well enough that my ~2k lbs (loaded) trailer isn't going to drop me to a crawl on those steep climbs?

The strikes against a Ford are that I've concluded after owning and driving both the AOD and the 700R4 that this truck will get a 700R4. That's non-negotiable at this point. Going with a 5.0 presents an adapter expense over going with a chebby.
Click to expand...

Awesome. I'm really not sure which I'd prefer for a driver, but for a wheeler, the 700R4 is certainly a better choice. Adapter shouldn't be too hard to find, I remember someone from a mailing list made them for early broncos.

As for the power, I have a couple of 302 powered full size wagons with AODs, and they sling the almost 5000 lb wagon around fine, and seem to tow up to 5000 lbs without getting too unhappy about it. Then I started playing with bigger toys, and had to get into trucks.

DBS311 said:
I say go for it so I can decide if it's something I want to do down the road. If I don't go the diesel route then I'd like to seriously consider the 302, with a possible stroke to make it a 347. I've always heard that the Ford 302 blocks lasted longer compared to the SBC blocks. They have a higher content of nickel or something like that. I'm sure somebody here knows the specs. I love the 347 in my EB.
Click to expand...

Unless real estate is a concern, it's probably going to be cheaper to build a 351 than put together a 347.

Mace said:
It is damn close. And I am using the dual sump mustang oil pan. And, I have a dent in the pan where the pumpkin kissed it a couple of times during install. I have to limit my uptravel or I will smack the pan again.

A rear sump would be better tho. Lots more clearance then.
Click to expand...

If it's any consolation, my 89 XJ dented the oil pan with the front axle while at pismo, and it was dead stock at the time. Now it's just dead :bang:
 
my $0.02, I think a SEFI ford smallblock is a great idea. I'd the consider it over TBI/TPI because the distibutor is in the front and it's a dimentionally smaller engine as it's a 60degree v8 rather than a 90degree. And i'd choose it over the vortec due to the simple wiring, low price, and HUGE aftermarket. The Mark's adapers for the h42 is the same price for a chevy or ford sb.:beer:
 
effjay60 said:
my $0.02, I think a SEFI ford smallblock is a great idea. I'd the consider it over TBI/TPI because the distibutor is in the front and it's a dimentionally smaller engine as it's a 60degree v8 rather than a 90degree. And i'd choose it over the vortec due to the simple wiring, low price, and HUGE aftermarket. The Mark's adapers for the h42 is the same price for a chevy or ford sb.:beer:
Click to expand...

Agree with you that it's arguably a better swap, but I'm pretty sure it's a 90 degree v8.
 
The only 60* Ford V8 that I'm aware of is a small displacement flathead, the "V8-60".

The SBF's are narrower due to cylinder head geometry (really short exhaust ports!) and a short deck height. The 302/5.0L conrod is about 3/4" shorter than the SBC's conrod. Which is partly why I've no interest in a 347, rod ratio is totally out to lunch.
 
What it's come down to is this:
If I use a SBC/700/241 and buy a FJ60 FF axle housing I can move the diff to on-center. So far no adapters and I'll be buying an FF anyway. So I'm only out the labor of centering the diff and the cost of the drive axles and flanges.

I want to be able to use Toyota driveshafts, so converting the 241 with an SYE kit gets me to a pair of output flanges on the transfer case, which can then be modified to bolt up to Toyota companion flanges.

That makes the whole conversion pretty simple, relatively inexpensive, and uses only a few custom parts.

Kincade Bauer at 700R4inaFord.com pioneered the SBF -> 700R4 adapter. I've conversed with Kincade over the years on various EB lists and boards. Anyone desiring to go this way would be hard pressed to find a better person to do business with.
 
ntsqd said:
What it's come down to is this:
If I use a SBC/700/241 and buy a FJ60 FF axle housing I can move the diff to on-center. So far no adapters and I'll be buying an FF anyway. So I'm only out the labor of centering the diff and the cost of the drive axles and flanges.

I want to be able to use Toyota driveshafts, so converting the 241 with an SYE kit gets me to a pair of output flanges on the transfer case, which can then be modified to bolt up to Toyota companion flanges.
Click to expand...

You and I are definately talking about different 241 cases. The one I was talking about was driver's drop and did not have a slip yoke. It also had 4:1 low range and was bolted to asian transmissions.

ntsqd said:
Kincade Bauer at 700R4inaFord.com pioneered the SBF -> 700R4 adapter. I've conversed with Kincade over the years on various EB lists and boards. Anyone desiring to go this way would be hard pressed to find a better person to do business with.
Click to expand...

That's the person I was thinking of. Haven't talked to him in years.
 
ntsqd said:
The only 60* Ford V8 that I'm aware of is a small displacement flathead, the "V8-60". quote]

just trivial because this is a transverse engine and does us no good, but the 1996-1999 Taurus SHO had a 3.4L V8 with the 60 degree bank angle. This engine was modified for the volvo (owned by ford) xc90 which is made in sweden. the engine block and heads are made by ford in Ontario Canada then shipped to Yamaha of Japan for finishing. It's a crazy WTO sh*T sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite. Tangent overwith:meh:
Click to expand...
 
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