FJC with FJ40 emblems - How does it look ?

[FusionCruiser]

The FJC wasn't purpose designed other than to fill a niche- something to take a few more dollars from Dailmer-Chrysler, and it was designed as a one off, for the american market. How is anyone supposed to take it serious when the rumored rhetoric is "the FJC is for people who off road and drink beer."

I must say that those comments/quotes have me curious... Where do they come from? The only comments that I have read from Toyota have had a very different 'spin'... Here is a quote from Toyota....
"Its lineage is impeccable, since it’s the heir to the off-road throne that was occupied for a remarkable 24 years by its predecessor, the legendary Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40."

So if Toyota is saying that the FJ is the heir to the throne of a LC... Doesn't that mean that they think of it that way?

Kinda having fun with it but I do want to understand the fact that a 100 is ok to where a badge that the FJ hasn't earned even though it was designed as the continuation of the early lc line.

Thanks, I appreciate the opinions on the subject. They are definitely helping me understand the nuances of the LC 'family'.

Shawn

 

[nuclearlemon]

it's too far back

and i do think the $50k plus cruisers deserve the badge. i see a bunch of them on the trail. you apparently just don't wheel in the right place. don't diss expensive rigs on the trail until you see how many fjc's end up there. i'm betting it will become a college girl car like the sidekick.

 

[elmariachi]

..that any vehicle that has a bottom mounted spare is automatically showing signs of being developed for the city and not the trails but the recent LC's that I could find pictures of all had a 'city spare'.

So is it elegance and comfort features (and higher cost) or capability that seperates a landcruiser from the 4runners etc?

Shawn

In 1953 Toyota assigned the task of building the Land Cruiser to the ARACO company. For 53 years ARACO has built the Land Cruiser independent of other Toyota products, in separate plants on separate lines. From 1953 until 1989, the Land Cruiser was built with a global market in mind and not a US market. In 1990, as the 80 Series prepared for US launch, Toyota USA dictated that the truck have more creature comforts than the 60 Series predecessor. Starting in the early 90s the FJ-80 Toyota delivered here began to differ from its non-USA counterpart, with things such as leather, full power options and the "spare mounted underneath." This can be attributed to the leadership of Toyota Motor Sales US and their effort to meet US market demand for an ultra-premium, ultra-reliable sport utility instead of a safari-capable "truck." That mentality is further evidenced by the success of Lexus in the US, yet another brainchild of Toyota US, not Toyota Japan.

Outside the US the various models of Land Cruisers have remained somewhat immune to the "luxury' treatment offered here. Internationally, rear-mounted spares, dual fuel tanks, diesel engines, solid front axles and spartan interior trim levels are all readily available even today whereas here, the Land Cruiser has become a $65,000 wood and leather grocery getter. But that grocery getter is a world-class offroad vehicle as well, if you don't mind putting $65k at risk of scratches and dings.

You'll notice the same thing is now happening to Land Rover in the US, only 15 years later. You have the $85,000 fully-loaded Range Rover, its sibling the "Sport" and the new LR-3. None of these are designed for offroad use right off the US showroom floor, as is evidenced by the street tires, low clearance and excessive use of plastics on the lower exterior.

IMO, what separates the Land Cruiser from other trucks like the 4 Runner, the Sequoia, the Lexus GX470 and the new FJ Cruiser is the ARACO heritage of delivering a truly global "truck" platform. The FJ Cruiser, like these other trucks, is a product of Toyota USA marketing more than Japanese engineering.

Is the FJ a Land Cruiser? If you apply the 50+ years of engineering conducted independent of input from external forces like Toyota USA and if you apply the 50+ years of manufacturing heritage from ARACO then no, it is not a Land Cruiser.

In their marketing efforts TMS is trying to create a tie between this thing and the FJ-40. So in that sense, it will be perceived by many as a Land Cruiser. Having owned 7 Cruisers, it is not a Land Cruiser to me.

 

[FusionCruiser]

it's too far back

and i do think the $50k plus cruisers deserve the badge. i see a bunch of them on the trail. you apparently just don't wheel in the right place. don't diss expensive rigs on the trail until you see how many fjc's end up there. i'm betting it will become a college girl car like the sidekick.

1) I don't understand the "too far back" comment unless you are saying that an old FJ shouldn't be called a LandCruiser.

2)I knew someone would sink to a comment like that sooner or later (about the college girl car). I was kind of curious how long it would take.

3) From time to time I do see the big LC's on the trail but never wheeling so I guess your right, I only wheel in the wrong spots for LC's. It's mostly Jeeps, older FJ's and Land Rover's where we go.

Either way, it's all good. I like the badges on the silver fj.

 

[ridgerunner]

I must say that those comments/quotes have me curious... Where do they come from? The only comments that I have read from Toyota have had a very different 'spin'... Here is a quote from Toyota....
"Its lineage is impeccable, since it’s the heir to the off-road throne that was occupied for a remarkable 24 years by its predecessor, the legendary Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40."

So if Toyota is saying that the FJ is the heir to the throne of a LC... Doesn't that mean that they think of it that way?

Are you really willing to negate everything the 70-79 series is so Toyota can make another dollar?

Kinda having fun with it but I do want to understand the fact that a 100 is ok to where a badge that the FJ hasn't earned even though it was designed as the continuation of the early lc line.

That's the thing, is that the UZJ100 and conversely the HDJ105 were designed as Cruisers using Cruiser specific parts. They were designed with other markets in mind other than what the lush/plush American Land Cruiser is. The day the Land Cruiser (the next redesign of the UZJ100) is built off of a shared frame with the tundra/sequoia, it will be the death of the Cruiser for the American market.

I hate to be the purist, but I know there are others who have the same seniments. For example, is the H2 a real hummer, or a yukon with a different body?


Edit: I heard the beer and off road comment somewhere around here at varying times.

 

[FusionCruiser]

In 1953 Toyota assigned the task of building the Land Cruiser to the ARACO company. For 53 years ARACO has built the Land Cruiser independent of other Toyota products, in separate plants on separate lines....

Really well written... I appreciate the information. It makes far more sense than the 'it's not a lc b/c I don't think it's one' type comments.

Thanks for the history.

Shawn

 

[elmariachi]

I hate to be the purist, but I know there are others who have the same seniments. For example, is the H2 a real hummer, or a yukon with a different body?

That is an excellent analogy in this argument. The design elements from AM General and the heritage that made the Hummer H1 are nowhere on the H2 or H3 except in name.

 

[elmariachi]

Really well written... I appreciate the information. It makes far more sense than the 'it's not a lc b/c I don't think it's one' type comments.Thanks for the history.Shawn

I have a great book called "The Land Cruiser Special Issue of 50th Anniversary," published in Japan a few years back and no longer in print. It is the defacto history of the Land Cruiser and tells the whole story from Toyota Japan and ARACO's perspective with very little reverence or regard given to the US market. There are a number of iconic elements in the Land Cruiser that the FJ simply does not share because of how it was conceptualized, where it is built and to what market it is aimed. Those elements are what purists will say the FJ Cruiser is lacking. So it will be interesting to see how Toyota Japan memorializes the FJ Cruiser in future printed historicals.

Not to be corny, but Toyota USA killed the Land Cruiser a few years ago, they just haven't had the funeral. The US 100 Series will likely soon be bastardized into a hybrid of one of the other platforms and the availability of the unique "world truck" in this market will be dead, thanks in large part to Toyota USA and the milk-toast US consumer demand for big bling-bling SUVs. Unfortunately they are now dragging the name through the mud so to speak with the FJ Cruiser. Either it will be a last gasp in a rape of the name, or who knows, maybe it will start an evolution. Maybe Toyota USA will sell the hell out of them, people will wheel the hell out of them, and Toyota Japan will say,"ARACO, build another Land Cruiser to succeed it."

In the same way a custom built rock buggy can have a 40 bezel and be accepted as a Land Cruiser, I do think that you new owners, especially those who wheel the truck, will do as more for making this a Land Cruiser than anything Toyota has done. So stick that badge on it and wheel it.

 

[alaskacruiser]

They were designed as Cruisers using Cruiser parts. There is nothing they share in common with other Toyota models (other than an engine or transmission from a bus).

Not quite accurate- the A440 transmission was used on the 91-92 80-series Landcruisers first. It was then used (with a completely different valve body) on a small Japanese market bus. So the myth about the tranny being "taken from a bus" is not correct.

 

[FusionCruiser]

I have a great book .....

I must say... If the majority of Toy fans speak with the clarity that your posts exhibit, I will learn a lot in a short period. I find it impossible to learn from the one's that figure shouting louder (analogy obviously ) will help the rest of us see it their way.

I'll have to check ebay for an old copy of the book. Sounds worth reading!

Cya on the trails (well, maybe after friday... i don't want to damage my Land Rover before it goes in for the trade)

Shawn

 

[elmariachi]

I find it impossible to learn from the one's that figure shouting louder (analogy obviously ) will help the rest of us see it their way.

Its all innocently rooted in the fact that for years outsiders have called FJ-40s "Jeeps" and FJ wagons "Land Rovers." Makes some folks around here have itchy trigger fingers.

I'll have to check ebay for an old copy of the book. Sounds worth reading!

Specter Offroad had it for a while but their website says out of production. I'd watch eBay and Amazon, its a beautiful 200 page book with tons of production facts, photos and stories from the people who built it.

Happy FJ Wheeling!

 

[bull]

It's defaintely not an old-school Landcruiser, but the emblems kinda set it off and in my personal opinion (no cost) the FJC deserves the Landcruiser emblem more than the modern $50K Landcruiser that (rarely) goes anywhere except soccer practice, school, Starbucks and home.

Got lost on the way to starbucks..

 

[beaufort-fj60]

Got lost on the way to starbucks..

"There she blows!--there she blows! A hump like a snow-hill! It's a wheeled 100!"

 

[gulp3000]

They look fine, but it's not a a Land Cruiser, so, they are kinda out of place. It IS a Cruiser so I think chopping off the "Land" and mounting them up would be perfectly accepted and make sense. In fact, Toyota may have missed a bit of the "retro" boat by not using some of the old style 4WD plates, etc. Be proud of what you have. It's not a Land Cruiser, but it's a pretty cool ride.

That said, if you like 'um...who cares what we think?

I had a buddy that bought a stock '76 FJ40 with Chevy 2500 emblems on it? My old CJ5 had the Mack truck bulldog hood ornament when I bought it?

 

[tucker74]

In the same way a custom built rock buggy can have a 40 bezel and be accepted as a Land Cruiser, I do think that you new owners, especially those who wheel the truck, will do as more for making this a Land Cruiser than anything Toyota has done. So stick that badge on it and wheel it.

I agree - you guys coming out to play with the rest of us will go alot further than any badge in making the FJ a Cruiser. This one came with the tire underneith, along with front, center, and rear diff locks

Tucker

 

[MoJ]

1) I don't understand the "too far back" comment unless you are saying that an old FJ shouldn't be called a LandCruiser.

The "too far back" was in reference to the location of the emblem - ie it needs to be moved further toward the front of the vehicle, similar to where it would be located on some Toyota Land Cruisers

 

[MoJ]

If a 40 defines Land Cruiser than I'd agree the FJ is more of a cruiser than a US spec 80 or a 100 let alone something that start with an LX.

 

[ryanjl]

The only thing that really agitates me is how Toyota Marketing is insinuating the Land Cruiser essentially stopped in '83 with the FJ40 and continued with the 2007 FJ Cruiser, essentially ignoring 23 years (or 15 years for the SFA purists) of real off-road vehicles.

Like has been said earlier, the '93 - '97 FZJ80 with front and rear solid lockable axles is arguably the best mass produced, consumer oriented off-road vehicle of all time. But Toyota USA ignores that because it wants some copy with a little more zing.

I'm not bashing the FJ Cruiser at all. I kind of like them and have been considering getting one.

But I wonder if Toyota USA is really just casually glossing over the last 23 years, or is really that uninformed about its own product.

 

[logic2]

When I created this post, I had no idea that it would stir such emotion

However, to be completely honest, and this being my 2nd FJ (the 1st being a 40), I totally understand that my FJC is not a Landcruiser, and it wasn't built off of improvements to the current Landcruiser model; Ray Charles could see that.

When Toyota was contracted by the US Govt to build J33ps for the Army after WWII, and they used GM as a template (sort of...) I'm sure there were folks dissing it, saying "it ain't no Jeep", etc...etc...but Toyota designed the old cruiser for practicality and it had a purpose, and is definately wasn't to fill a niche (at least I don't believe it was). The point I was trying to make, and the reason it (fills my heart with joy to see the old badges ont he FJC) is because Toyota started following EVERYONE ELSE in the Soccer-Mom SUV race and changed the Landcruiser into something that most people can't afford, something that (if taken into the river bed or into serious off-road conditions, would cause a divorce), something that if you were to step into the vehicle with muddy jeans and boots - would never look the same, etc....
Today's perception of the best (new & affordable) all-around off road vehicle would probably be the J33p because of the practicality, short wheel base, easy to clean, powerful, etc...
I believe Toyota finally called J33p to the ring and threw down the gloves. The new FJC is "relatively" cheap, powerful, geared great right off the show-room floor, no carpet to muddy up, lockers, quiet and comfy, and it looks pretty cool too.
I guess it was my rebellious way of saying that Toyota is hitting a little closer to home with the FJC, right off the show room floor, they are finally competing for my business again.
I just sold my 03 Rubicon on Ebay to buy the Silver FJC (I liked the Rubicon alot), but like my new Landcruiser better

Good information and feedback by the way - There's a lot of knowledge on this board.

Oh - Great pic of the Cruiser that got lost on the way back from Starbucks !!!

 

[elmariachi]

But I wonder if Toyota USA is really just casually glossing over the last 23 years, or is really that uninformed about its own product.

I assure you that Toyota USA is not uninformed. They are masterful artists at marketing products (i.e. LEXUS for example.)I think they are trying to draw the original stock FJ-40 crowd from the 70s and 80s back in to buy this truck for a weekend toy, daughter-off-to-college truck, tow-behind-RV SUV. I am not saying that's how its built, but just their intention. They can put it in an ad next to a 40 and draw some comparisons. What comparison can you draw between it and a 55, 60 or 80? None other than the Toyota logo.

I guess it was my rebellious way of saying that Toyota is hitting a little closer to home with the FJC, right off the show room floor, they are finally competing for my business again.

I agree with your post, but remember, Toyota has never, ever, ever, ever had a problem selling anything in this country. They have always been very conservative in their design approaches and this truck is a radical departure for them, again....credit or criticism being due to TMS marketing. If I had to speculate on what compelled TMS to do this, it wouldn't be that they were trying to get you, the Rubicon owner off the couch. They long ago surrendered the 2 door Jeep market here by killing the FJ-40. I think they saw the American appetite for making the old new again ( the Mustang, the proposed Camaro, Charger, GTO etc.) and said, "Hey, we've got a legacy we can bring back too." And that was a US marketing idea, not a Japanese engineering idea.