FJ60 Design Flaws, practical solutions? (1 Viewer)

[chukardog]

Dont get me wrong, I love my 60 but the more I learn about this particular model the more it seems Toyota laid an egg with the 60. Numerous design flaws that add up to a very un-Toyota like end result. My motivation is not to bash the 60 but to remedy these flaws before they strand me, my 3 hunting dogs, guns and gear miles from the nearest paved road. If Im missing anything feel free to add on.

1. The 2F while reliable is vastly under powered for the American public. Why mate an under powered engine with a 4 speed? some of the drivability issues could have been mitigated by going with the 5 speed. Why was there no effort to balance the spinning parts in this engine. By all accounts there was no effort to do this at the factory. Why?
2. Emissions system. Where do I start? the Smog pump was a bad idea and is huge detriment to overall reilability, Why introduce an extra point of failure? THey should never have carbed this rig, it would have been much better off going with Fuel injection. How many feet of ******* vaccum hose can you put on a vehicle? The intricate Vacuum set up introduces multiple points of failure and really makes the vehicle much tougher to work on than it should be
3. Birfields, WTF? these things are garbage!! why foist old weak technolgy on a rig that needs to be able to take punishment? Why didnt they use the same Birfs as the toyota Trucks? they seem to be a much stronger design. with the added weight of the 60 this seems like a no brainer.
4. Inner Axle Seals. It seems like this is one of the most common problems with this rig. I dont know enough about it but when compared to the Trucks this seems to be all too common a failure. Of all the buddys I know that have had high milage Toyota trucks I have never heard of them having inner axle seal issues. How are the designs different? Am I off base here?
5. Pressed in Oil gallery plug, just waiting to fail. easy fix but yet again a really stupid idea that should never have gotten off the assembly line.

 

[Mace]

1. The six cylinder motor was the strongest and most powerfull in it's class at the time of inception. IT was just outclassed in the power dept by the later model V8's. Besides, when it was built, you only could go 55 mph..

2. Instead of creating an entire new platform they tries to modify the platform they had to comply with emissions.. if you look at any truck of that vintage that is not fuel injected the look the same. Freaking hoses running everywhere.. Smog pumps are on most vehicles of that vintage. It made a carbed motor work with the new emission laws. And, early 80's (and before) fuel injection was overly complex and clunky.. Heck, think of what an early 80's computer was like..

3. 60 birfields are the same as mini birfields.. they are identical. And, with 30" tires and no locker they hold up for millions of miles..

4. Inner axle seals are the same as minis. Your friends probably have IFS rigs..

5. Oil galley plug is a legitimate gripe. But hell, they last 150K all the time. Byt the time you need to rebuild a old carbed 350 you need to think about replacing a $0.10 plug.. Doesn't seem to be a big deal to me.


A lot of your concerns stem from driving a rig that is 20 years old. Things wear and need upkeep. That is all.

 

[trucruiser]

X2 on vacuum lines, have you ever looked at the same vintage honda's they have about the same amount of lines. So its not just Toyota that had to make the carb work to pass new strict emission laws.

 

[Mark W]

Looks like your comments have been addressed pretty well by the two previous posters.

I'm curious... How does an engine you perceive as underpowered lead to you being "stranded"? How many birfields have you broken in this rig? What alternative would you suggest for Toyota to have used? Bobby Longfield treated Dana 60s? Installed twenty years before they existed?

What problems have you encountered with the carb? That are not simply addressed by putting the carb in the condition that it came in? EFI was just coming nto Toyotas menu in the era of the FJ60... FJ60 carbed, FJ62 EFI...

I could go on, but it seems that you have some unrealistic impressions of weaknesses in these rigs. And unrealistic expectations as well.

They ain't perfect. But describe how you would have had Toyota build it. Specifically. And what you wouild have it do that it doesn't. Specifically.


Mark....

 

[phoenixrider]

The Landcruiser was an international product. We have some very stupid laws in our country. Toyota had to do what it had to to try to get a carbed engine to pass US emmission laws.

I have a feeling in other countries people were less concerned with 0-60 times and more concerned about having and engine that lasted a couple hundred thousand miles between rebuilds. Nor, driving interstates at 80mph.

Birfs? Well, with stock tires and no lockers, seem to last forever. Dana 30's? They don't work well on 35's with lockers either....

 

[hks3sgte]

Mace summed up everything nicely.

Personally, I believe the 60 series Land Cruiser to be Toyota's best product. Yeah, it's outdated by today's standard but it really is built "like a tank."

 

[D'Animal]

Mace pretty much summed it up.

You sound as though you think you 60 is underbuilt or underdesigned.

Park your 60 next to a 20 year old Jeep of the same body style. You will see that your 60 is way overbuilt comparing when Apples to Apples.

Pop the hood on both rigs and again you will see that your 60 is way overbuilt comparing when Apples to Apples.

 

[Jaybikman]

FJ60 Design Flaws, practical soultions

I think the thing that puzzles me most is the presence of a front spring reversal on the early mini trucks. A buddy of mine came over with his pre-85, 4 runner with the old removable roof the other day. I was bumpin around underneath it and it had a factory spring reversal on the front end. I am a little bent that Toyota didn't do this to these fine rigs also. I do not complain about how well the performance of my rig still runs. It cruises well and drives smooth. The engine is looking and performing a bit tired, but I don't complain. Mace nailed it on the head. He is right about the performance. However I wish we didn't have such strict emissions laws etc in the US. Smog pumps do suck.
J-

 

[Mace]

mini's are also spring over..

Personaly I see almost no value to the general public with a Shackle reversal.

 

[Mark W]

A fore shackled front suspension is not an advantage for the way these rigs were designed to be used, or for the way that most of us use them either.


Mark...

 

[agent orange]

The only thing i would like about a reversal is not banging my shackles and springs into ledges. Of cource SOA, shorter shackles and bigger springs would help out with that.

 

[chukardog]

I must have bad info on the Birfield situation. I was told that the later Toyota PU's had larger Birfs than the 60. Sounds like this is incorrect. Wouldnt something like a Dana 44 be stronger? the pre77 Broncos seemed to have some of the beefiest running gear.
When I refer to the 60 I'm using the 87 FJ60 as the example. By 87 Fuel injection was not clunky and was working well in millions of vehicles.
Mace,as far as the 2F being the most powerful in its class, what class are you talking about I-6's? Maybe, but on a whole the power to weight ratio as compared to any small block V-8, performance is abysmal. The SBC was around way before the 60
My main beef with the 60 stems from it being dangerously underpowered and the retrofitted Smog system introducing needless points of failure. The truck can barely get out of its own way. Of all the vehicles I have driven I think this is without a doubt the most gutless I have ever driven.

I still love the 60, but I think the 80 was where Toyota perfected the landcruiser wagon

 

[hks3sgte]

I have daily driven my 60 for about 3 years now. I have never thought, "damn, i need more power"

I can merge into a freeway, i can effortlessly get around town, and it drives at the speed limit. What more do I need?

As far as Toyota perfecting the wagon with the 80... umm... I don't think so. The only thing I wish my wagon to have from the 80 is its rust proof-ness...

 

[D'Animal]

Chukardog

Maybe your rig needs a tune up.

 

[chukardog]

C'mon you guys, driving the 60 around you actually think the power is adequate? I think a 6 volt 40 horse volkswagon beetle might actually be faster. I like the inherent reliablity of the 2F(less smog garbage), but its just such a dog it makes any freeway trip over an hour sheer torture. I get my Jim C carb rebuild back next week, maybe I'll see some improvement.

 

[Christian]

Try driving a stock HJ60, 105 hp, 265nm of torque... But I never expected it to be a "nifty little sportscar" It is, and was intended to be a thing between a truck and a tractor. Watch some National geo. Or something from Egypt or another place... What are they driving? 60's!!! Why? because they work!

 

[D'Animal]

C'mon you guys, driving the 60 around you actually think the power is adequate? I think a 6 volt 40 horse volkswagon beetle might actually be faster.

LMAO!

Is your parking brake on?

I'm serious about your rig might need a tune up. The top speed on my 60 is around 75mph. That is loaded with a pare of Dana 60's, camping gear etc.

No problems on acceleration or rolling down the freeway. It will hold it own against my 99 4x4 Tahoe. My tahoe will leave it standing at higher speeds.

 

[flybynight]

what are you doing that make the power or lack there of dangerous?

and you can't blame toyota for emissions issues.

and being the owner of american v-8 powered vehicles not to mention straight 6 mopar cars.....only the 6's come close to longevity and reliability and of those the older the better. the Detroit mentality was and is driven by $ not reliability. the 8's suck fuel and wear out....comparing like years.

sip some green tea.....anti oxidants are good for you

 

[chukardog]

As far as Toyota perfecting the wagon with the 80... umm... I don't think so.

Umm yeah, put both rigs next to each other and go wheeling. The 80 is vastly superior in every way. More power, more comfort, factory Lockers etc. the 60 has more character and is more utlitarian and that has its own appeal but for drive it off the lot capabilites the 60 doesnt hold a candle to the 80.

 

[Mace]

I must have bad info on the Birfield situation. I was told that the later Toyota PU's had larger Birfs than the 60. Sounds like this is incorrect. Wouldnt something like a Dana 44 be stronger? the pre77 Broncos seemed to have some of the beefiest running gear.
When I refer to the 60 I'm using the 87 FJ60 as the example. By 87 Fuel injection was not clunky and was working well in millions of vehicles.
Mace,as far as the 2F being the most powerful in its class, what class are you talking about I-6's? Maybe, but on a whole the power to weight ratio as compared to any small block V-8, performance is abysmal. The SBC was around way before the 60
My main beef with the 60 stems from it being dangerously underpowered and the retrofitted Smog system introducing needless points of failure. The truck can barely get out of its own way. Of all the vehicles I have driven I think this is without a doubt the most gutless I have ever driven.

I still love the 60, but I think the 80 was where Toyota perfected the landcruiser wagon

mini birfs = 60 birfs.. they are the same..

D44 is weaker in a straight line than a birf is. It is slightly stronger in a turn, but not much.

I believe only the 76 & 77 bronco's got a D44 front end. The rest got D30 stuff that you can break in a straight line going up a hill.. The rear axle was a 27 spline (IIRC) ford 9". The centersection was strong but the shafts were much weaker than a cruiser. Tcase of choice was the Dana 20. Which fails commonly compared to the LC split tcase.

And after 87, they converted the 2F to the 3F and added fuel injection. Perhaps they waited too long to do the swap, but it coencieded with a couple of other swaps (auto and interior). Bad idea or not. IT is what they did. The truck was doing exactly what it was designed for.. And lasting forever...

When the inline six came out in the early 40's it was THE powerhouse.. The SBC was not available yet and no off road vehicles came with v8's.. they started with the motor and stuck with it because fo the reliability and simple engineering.. Why change things if people are happy??

Dangerously underpowered?? When the entire US was limited to go 55 max? (cept for like Montana I think) I don't see that. Are they speed demons? Nope. Hell I grew up in one. That thing took me everywhere. It is not powerfull. But it was far from dangerous..

The spaghetti vacuum lines are a headache. But how many of them have you heard of failing before the motor was over 150 or 200K?? The smog requirements were more a part of US regulation than Toyota saying, "This is a great idea!!!" They were trying to deal with what they had till they could improve on the next model year..

And a 40 horse VW is slower.. Trust me, I have raced both..