80s were around 40k new. That's ~90k today.
First Land Cruiser After Four 4Runners — Here’s What I Think (6 Viewers)
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Catching Neutral
GOLD Star
I would drive the Grand Highlander before I would drive the 4R.
Opinion but I am not a fan.
Opinion but I am not a fan.
A 60 was pretty close to the same price as a 2 door K5 Blazer or the full size bronco is my memory. Might be bad memory. Google tells me an 85 FJ60 was $15k and a Bronco was $13k. About 15% more for the LC60. But they were pretty basic vehicles too. Manual transmission, cloth benches, hand crank windows. Remember that Toyota automatics had below average reputation at that point too. I think that generation turned out to be okay, but the reputation wasn't good because of the earlier stuff - cars like the Cressida didn't do any favors. And the FJ80 really was a dog - even compared to the other vehicles of the era. 14 second 0-60 and 11mpg wasn't a recipe for a good time on the highway. It wasn't until the FZJ came out with a bit more power and locking diffs that I ever really thought of the wagon as something I might want.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
To be fair, most cars were slow AF back then.
Very true. But even a Suburban was around 10 seconds 0-60 and a Blazer was around 8.5. IIRC my old '71 Suburban was still significantly faster just by memory of the 350/TH350 combo in around a 4k lb vehicle of that era. Looking back at that era is so interesting now. The Suburban had 9 different gas engine options. Including some really oddball stuff like a big block v6. Almost 5 liters displacement at the same time they also had a 4.8L inline 6 and a 5.0L v8. Why did that make sense?
I did have an F250 way back with the 6.9 IDI diesel. For the unfamiliar - that's a NON-turbo diesel and my god was it slow. Cranked out a bone crushing 170hp. Probably right on par with an JF80 in a drag race. Haha. And it was so loud that you had to turn it off at a drive through to order. And then cross your fingers that it would start again. Not sure much has changed in 40 years about that second part.
I did have an F250 way back with the 6.9 IDI diesel. For the unfamiliar - that's a NON-turbo diesel and my god was it slow. Cranked out a bone crushing 170hp. Probably right on par with an JF80 in a drag race. Haha. And it was so loud that you had to turn it off at a drive through to order. And then cross your fingers that it would start again. Not sure much has changed in 40 years about that second part.
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joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
We had a Quick Look at a ‘25 4R today at a local dealer. Back seat is smaller than the 250s, and the rear cargo area on the 4R (ORP Hybrid) was ridiculous. I thought the 250 was low in the back with the battery, but the 4R is about 4-5” lower. My dogs couldn’t even stand up back there. I did Iike the styling a bit better seeing it standing still, but I’m still 100% happy to have bought the 1958.
I totally agree on the round lights. I owned 2 BJ60s way back when, so the 1958 is my favourite. The LC trim and its sq head lights are nice too, and if I were to have owned 62s instead of 60s, I could see where the appeal is.
All this said, if I win the lotto tonight, I’m not buying another new vehicle. I’m going to get a FJ60 or 62 and have it restored to like new, with a modern-ish running gear in it like the one below. Good drivability, but without the “Safe exit mode off, be careful exiting vehicle” bull**** messages
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joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
I’ve had my share of those things too. K5s with 305 4 speed, Sub with 350/350, Broncos with 351m, F250 with 300 straight 6 and 5 speed, countless 7.3 (all flavors) and 7.5s both ZF5 and E4OD, Cummins both stick and auto. All of them great trucks in their own ways, and nightmares in others. It is now, and always will be the nature of the beasts. Unless you do a total custom that combines the best of all worlds. My current project (aside from the old Taco and Sequoia daily drivers) is a ‘94 Bronco with a 302. It’s close…
My 1972 C10 (rig I drove in high school) and the 350/5.7L with 8.5:1 compression, 175 horsepower, and 290 ft/lbs of torque! It was pretty gutless stock but became a lot better with a cam, aluminum intake, and headers on it. Still, I am pretty sure my 2UZ-FE makes way more power than it ever did. The 350 stayed pretty gutless all the way up until the 255 hp Vortecs came out in 1996, which were known as the "fast" truck in my high school parking lot (especially the SWB, standard cab models with the 5.7 Vortec and a 5-speed manual). But even Vortec 350 power was basically the same as a VVTI 2UZ-FE.
I'd love a classic C-10 again, or even a nice squarebody (my dad had a K15 short-step that I loved as a kid, but it was pretty darn rusty by ~'91 when he sold it). But, they are honestly pretty terrible vehicles in a lot of ways relative to anything produced after 2000 or so.
Our '92 was mid 20s in late '91. That's mid 50s today; like the 1958. Both have no-frills trim too (which I really like). Hardly a status symbol, but upfit 80s trims soon changed that.
What I loved about my 5th gen 4R and would also fit the 6th and LC250 is the range of functions. It's something you can jump in and do 1,000 mile highway trip to some cool place and still tackle 90% of the offroad range of the side by side or LC40, with heated seats, confidence going out alone, and ability to have a conversation with your passengers. And can haul enough gear to camp a few days. None of my other toys I've had can do that. My Tundra can't really either because it's not so great on the trails.
The side by side is fun in its own way, but it's small, has short range, isn't really for camping. It's just a day trip toy. Fun for sure and really is remarkably agile and capable in certain terrain like soft bottomless mud and going fast over bowling ball size boulders. But it also is just not a very fun place to spend a lot of time. I have tried to fix it, but can't seem to ever make a real dent in the overall interior noise levels regardless of how much dynamat and foam I add. Its not comfortable in winter. I have full cab enclosure with doors, but it's still worse than even my old CJ5 was in winter. It's also full of dust in the summer. Nothing seals up, so the dust permeates everything in summer. It doesn't do great on big stuff - big rocks, big rivers, etc. Being so close to the ground makes everything feel huge.
The FJ40 has it's own set of downsides. It's old, needs a trailer to go very far from home, probably less reliable with the old carb engine and basic ignition. Mine still has a 2F and hasn't been super reliable. Needs a re-power. And a diet.
Bless you for keeping that 2F running
Yeah they were a lot of work more than many like to admit. Had a 77 Iron Pig in the late 70's through the mid 80's and it ate valve guides. And required a lot of care but drove it in the mountains all over the West Coast and cross Country in 83.
Was my first "real" 4x4. During Desert Storm pulled into Abu Dhabi and this full page add is one of the few things I brought home
That is when I knew they had changed and in a big way. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Must be 3 years ago now I was hunting birds on the Canadian border and came across a guy was walking on a logging trail. His Ranger was buried in a bog and no cell phone reception or sat phone, he was walking out for help in the middle of the nowhere. After I pulled him out we got to talking and he owns the largest Toyota dealer in Northern Mn. He had just got back from a conference in Az. where they had told the dealers about the then new LC250 that was coming out. He said wait until the official announcement then get on the list for one at the dealer. And I did was #2 on the list.
As time got closer got cold feet so went to the dealer to check out a T4R OR Pro. It wasn't much different than my 11 year old 2nd gen Taco Baja T|X it couldn't get out of its own way. They did have a FJ55 on the floor
Looking it over brought back a flood of memories, and shocked me how primitive it was at the same time. The salesman had a 19 Lexus GX460 that he had to almost twist my arm to test drive. I'm not the Lexus type, right?! In a matter of minutes I knew it was coming home with me. My first 4x4 was a LC and figured at my age my last vehicle was going to be a LC. After having the GX provided I live long enough it now very well may be a 700 OT in a few years down the road.
My first UTV was a Polaris Ranger Northstar 1000XP. The cab was loud but I was able to cut the sound inside it in half it isn't just vibrations you want to stop you need Mass Loaded Vinyl. During COVID sold it for more than I paid for it and picked up a 22 Northstar Trail Boss. The sound inside the cab is low enough that I didn't have to do anything. Having a Gilomen low RPM tune helped a lot, and can drive 60 mph on the road to keep getting run over by logging trucks if needed although with such a short wheel base it is more than a bit squirrely at speed. No problems with dust intrusion and with the heater and AC it is comfortable in both winter and summer.
As you mentioned the much lighter weight is better in mud, bogs and water. And is a Billy goat it can go pretty much anywhere. In the next week I will be putting the dog box on the back and spend the month of October in Northern Mn. and Sunset Country of Canada with it chasing little brown birds with the dogs.
I run the buggy 75% of the time and the GX the other 25% of the time. The buggy can take hard hits in areas that are lousy with vegetation and the body doesn't flinch although the marine grade Baltic birch requires annual painting
The GX not so much
If it would have been a new LC or 700 OT I'd probably cry LOL. Every year I say this year I'm not going to go down some new trail. Then when I see one I can't help myself....
When the GX gets close to 100K will make the decision to keep it or start looking at a LC250, T4R or 700 OT again.
My old 2F has actually been reasonably reliable. I don't think it's ever had any internal work. Not in the 20ish years I've had it. But I have had issues with the ignition mostly and the carburation has never really been right. I bought it with a weber carb and put it back to an OEM one, but I've never gotten it to run as smoothly as my dad's all original one. I also really want to drop some weight off of it and would love to have fuel injection. I can't realistically get back into a full custom build for a while - just too busy with kids and life. But I've wanted to take it in a new direction with a relatively modern lighter weight engine. I've been daydreaming of something very different from the standard GM v8 swap. My most recent thought was a mid/rear engine with a engine/transaxle from a Yaris or similar with a very wide gear spread because it wouldn't have low range, but would effectively be in low range all the time and build it to be essentially a large side by side that seats 4 comfortably and has a more automotive level noise and comfort in the cabin.Bless you for keeping that 2F running
Was my first "real" 4x4. During Desert Storm pulled into Abu Dhabi and this full page add is one of the few things I brought home
That is when I knew they had changed and in a big way. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Must be 3 years ago now I was hunting birds on the Canadian border and came across a guy was walking on a logging trail. His Ranger was buried in a bog and no cell phone reception or sat phone, he was walking out for help in the middle of the nowhere. After I pulled him out we got to talking and he owns the largest Toyota dealer in Northern Mn. He had just got back from a conference in Az. where they had told the dealers about the then new LC250 that was coming out. He said wait until the official announcement then get on the list for one at the dealer. And I did was #2 on the list.
As time got closer got cold feet so went to the dealer to check out a T4R OR Pro. It wasn't much different than my 11 year old 2nd gen Taco Baja T|X it couldn't get out of its own way. They did have a FJ55 on the floor
Looking it over brought back a flood of memories, and shocked me how primitive it was at the same time. The salesman had a 19 Lexus GX460 that he had to almost twist my arm to test drive. I'm not the Lexus type, right?! In a matter of minutes I knew it was coming home with me. My first 4x4 was a LC and figured at my age my last vehicle was going to be a LC. After having the GX provided I live long enough it now very well may be a 700 OT in a few years down the road.
My first UTV was a Polaris Ranger Northstar 1000XP. The cab was loud but I was able to cut the sound inside it in half it isn't just vibrations you want to stop you need Mass Loaded Vinyl. During COVID sold it for more than I paid for it and picked up a 22 Northstar Trail Boss. The sound inside the cab is low enough that I didn't have to do anything. Having a Gilomen low RPM tune helped a lot, and can drive 60 mph on the road to keep getting run over by logging trucks if needed although with such a short wheel base it is more than a bit squirrely at speed. No problems with dust intrusion and with the heater and AC it is comfortable in both winter and summer.
As you mentioned the much lighter weight is better in mud, bogs and water. And is a Billy goat it can go pretty much anywhere. In the next week I will be putting the dog box on the back and spend the month of October in Northern Mn. and Sunset Country of Canada with it chasing little brown birds with the dogs.
I run the buggy 75% of the time and the GX the other 25% of the time. The buggy can take hard hits in areas that are lousy with vegetation and the body doesn't flinch although the marine grade Baltic birch requires annual painting
The GX not so much
If it would have been a new LC or 700 OT I'd probably cry LOL. Every year I say this year I'm not going to go down some new trail. Then when I see one I can't help myself....
When the GX gets close to 100K will make the decision to keep it or start looking at a LC250, T4R or 700 OT again.
I've done about everything I can think of to manage the noise in my old Rhino 700. I bought it shortly after moving to Alaska. I don't love the Rhino - I just couldn't find anything else at the time that was for sale so I probably way overpaid for it too. Lol. I put a secondary muffler on it that I adapted from an economy car (not sure what it was intended for) - but it works great. The exhaust is roughly similar to a Honda accord. Super quiet outside. But interior is so loud. I think it's from the intake and I've wrapped the intake tube and air filter box with dynamat and put a layer of the 1/4" sound absorbing foam on the back side of the firewall where it is too and it doesn't seem to make any difference. I've also wrapped the entire center panel over the motor on the back side plus even put some on the belt housing to help quiet it down. Still need ear plugs. Maybe the MLV needs to go on top of that? I think the right solution is probably just to sell it and buy a newer model to start.
The only one I've been really impressed by for noise is the Tracker (Arctic cat -ish) at bass pro. It's super quiet - almost golf cart leve. But it's really basic and lacks things like a front locker. If it had a front locker I'd take a harder look at one. Cabin kit is $14k. That's a lot for a set of plastic doors.
I would love to see Toyota get in the powersports game. Or just build very small offroad SUV. A Jimny 5 door is 2,600lbs. It seems like a money printing machine for Suzuki to just strip it down inside, modify the suspension for trail use, and call it a UTV for the USA market and sell at powersports dealerships. It's $23k. Doesn't seem like it would be a very heavy lift on the engineering side to get from here to there.
