Family Overland 200 build for a family of 4 + 1

[SF1911A1]

I’ve been wanting hood mounted solar as well, but can’t bring myself to pay those kind of prices. What about a black vinyl wrap in the shape/size you want with this flexible solar panel attached to the vinyl?

SunPower Flexible 100 Watt Monocrystalline Solar Panel Amazon product ASIN B077H45H3F

 

[bemerritt]

I feel your pain!
We decided, ARB drawers are absolutely the next purchase.
Currently everyone gets their own Under Armor school type backpack for clothes and personal items. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't go.
The kids have the super small pack up REI flex lite and the wife and I have the Kelty low loveseat.
This trip everything was dehydrated and we boiled water with a snow peak stove.



I couldn't believe how many stars were out there. We want to go back!



I only started the install, I didn't get a chance to finish. When I do finish I'll update this post with pics. That should be coming along soon.



Thanks for the recommendation! We decided to go with the ARB system. It was a close tie between ARB and Goose Gear but decided on the ARB due to the weigh handling and the future accessories we might be purchasing.



I completely feel this. I REALLY want to do the ARB twin under the hood, but $800+ when I already have a 100% duty cycle VIAIR that works awesome is hard to swallow. I need to come up with a way to mount the VIAIR somewhere. If you have any ideas I'm open to suggestions!

I bet you could get it up on the frame rails by the rear tire. I’m thinking of putting a water pump up there

 

[LegendaryKing]

ARBs great, but Viairs got some game too.

Single

LX gets Onboard Air

Not completely done yet, but here's a sneak peak of the onboard air project for my LX. Different take than the usual beastly dual-arb underhood. My original intent was just to get a portable Viair unit with gater clamps. Thing is, the LX has engine bay covers EVERYWHERE, even over the...

forum.ih8mud.com

View attachment 2895853

Duals

Power Steering Relocation Bracket and Dual OBA

Having done a power steering relocation mod recently for a yet to be completed twinz project, thought this would be useful for others on how to create a simple and effective relocation bracket. I know others have needed to relocate the PS for other reasons, including fitting dual batts. Here's...

forum.ih8mud.com

View attachment 2895852

THAT IS AWESOME! I don't have anything that massive, I have the 450P-RV (45053) and have been very happy with it's performance on the 33 10.5's. Thanks for the link! Definitely something to think about.

I’ve been wanting hood mounted solar as well, but can’t bring myself to pay those kind of prices. What about a black vinyl wrap in the shape/size you want with this flexible solar panel attached to the vinyl?

SunPower Flexible 100 Watt Monocrystalline Solar Panel Amazon product ASIN B077H45H3F

Absolutely an option! The end goal is to get a nice high quality rigid panel and permenantly mount it to a better roof rack ... but I'm not there yet. The allure of the Cascadia 4x4 panel is strong. I know it's not enough panel to charge my battery all by itself, but I keep telling myself I only need it to reduce power consumption ... it's a slippery slope. I don't want to have to start the truck on the regular to have the alternator do what the solar can't.

I bet you could get it up on the frame rails by the rear tire. I’m thinking of putting a water pump up there

I'll absolutely take a look. Keeping it in a box under a ton of stuff certainly isn't working out.

 

[snowtaco]

I’m trying to decide if the Cascadia 4x4 hood mounted solar panel is a good option for my setup. Price per watt is extremely expensive. Solar on average is $0.70-$1.50 per watt; the Cascadia 4x4 panel is $5.16 per watt … oof.

Having said that, the convenience of having a solar panel always on the vehicle, always charging, all the while looking great is quite the benefit.

I’m currently using a 200w mono-crystalline suitcase panel from my pop-up and I have zero issues keeping up with charging; however I have to pull it off the roof, open my hood, connect the alligator clamps every time I want to get a charge.

Is the convenience of not having to do anything to charge my house battery something that can overcome that price tag shock? First, let’s run some numbers and see how this would integrate into my setup.


CHARGING MATH!

I got my formulas from this website: How long does it take to charge batteries from solar panels - Voltacon Solar Blog - https://voltaconsolar.com/blog/2021/04/27/how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-batteries-from-solar-panels/


The Hardware:

Battery: Diehard Group 35 AGM with 55Ah​

Solar Pannel: Cascadia 4x4 LC200 5.5A​

Multiply current by rule-of-thumb system losses (20%) and charge controller efficiency (PWM: 75%; MPPT: 95%):

5.5A * (1-15%) * 95% = 4.44A​

Multiply battery capacity by 1 divided by rule-of-thumb battery charge efficiency (lead acid: 85%; lithium: 95%):

55AH * (1/85%) = 64.70Ah​

Divide battery capacity by current to estimate how long it’d take to charge the entire battery:

64.70Ah / 4.44A = 14.57hrs​

Multiply the charge time by the battery’s depth of discharge to estimate how long it’d take to charge the battery at its current level: (my battery is an AGM so I only have access to 50% of the battery)

14.57hrs * 50% = 7.285hrs​

Add 2 hours to account for the absorption charging stage of most charge controllers:

7.285hrs + 2hrs = 9.285hrs​

9.3 hours to charge a Group 35 battery with the Cascadia 85w LC200 hood mount solar panel … and that is assuming excellent sun. Is that worth paying 3.5 times or more the cost of a standard solar panel for something that provides the convenience of having to do absolutely nothing and the cool factor of looking absolutely AWESOME!? I know I’m trying to justify it in my own head … anyone have any good coupons or better options to make this an easier decision?

I have the Cascadia panel on my Taco, wired into a RedArc BCDC. It’s fantastic. I try to trade money for time, as well integrate before having something else to pack. Their solution does both. I thought about putting a panel on the roof, but that seemed to cost more (or at least the way I would have wanted to do it).

 

[Tex68w]

If Cascadia offered the panel for the 2016+ Cruiser I would have had one a long time ago. I am not even sure it's possible with their panels given the shape of the 16+ hood but I sent an inquiry anyway. IMHO their kit is worth it to have a full-time, no hassle option.

 

[NTV]

If Cascadia offered the panel for the 2016+ Cruiser I would have had one a long time ago. I am not even sure it's possible with their panels given the shape of the 16+ hood but I sent an inquiry anyway. IMHO their kit is worth it to have a full-time, no hassle option.

I like your thinking! I am about to have BCDC installed and curious to hear what they come back to you with. Right now my plan is to run a jackery 100W while in camp. I am interested in full time hard wired solar option though.

 

[LegendaryKing]

I have the Cascadia panel on my Taco, wired into a RedArc BCDC. It’s fantastic. I try to trade money for time, as well integrate before having something else to pack. Their solution does both. I thought about putting a panel on the roof, but that seemed to cost more (or at least the way I would have wanted to do it).

That's awesome. Real world experience! Tell us more! Do you have any more details on your setup? What are you powering? What is your power draw in Ah/day? How long can your vehicle sit without being started while powering all those devices? Are you able to keep up with power demand? What is the battery size that you are charging? Do you have a build thread? I'm super excited to see your setup!

THANKS FOR THE INFO AHEAD OF TIME!


I just did a quick google search to make certain I'm not off base, and a quality USA made monocrystalline 150w panel that would easily fit on a roof rack (stock or aftermarket) is ~$155. Even when searching "expensive" sites they were under $250 ... for 150w. That's almost double the output at almost 1/3 the cost (2.7333). $419 vs $150 (panel to panel price) is a massive difference in price.

BUT a roof mounted panel doesn't look as awesome, doesn't provide anti glare, isn't as easy to install, and while I'm not going to store anything on my hood, storing something on my roof is a reality so I'm giving up that real-estate. All of those things have a “cost” …

I'm still struggling with this, but if I KNEW for certain that the Cascadia panel could stave off a dead battery (dead battery = 50% capacity of an AGM ~12.25 - 12.05v) while running a fridge, HAM TX/RX/APRS, charging phones and tablets for ~3 days I really couldn't ask for much more and anything larger than 85w is just solar I don't need. Ideally if I couldn't reach the fully charged goal (unlikely the panel could 100% keep up with that demand), and I'm just out pacing solar production and end up down to ~70-75% battery capacity (~12.37-12.55v), after 3 days that's realistically all I need. I'm rarely ever somewhere longer than 3 days without starting my vehicle. Once I start the vehicle up the alternator and DC/DC charger will take over and produce whatever solar can't.

SO, let’s do some MATH

My expected power needs:

Cell Phone battery 4,614 mAh x4 (18.456 Ah/Day)​

Tablet battery 8,000 mAh x2 (16Ah/Day)​

Nintendo Switch battery 4310 mAh x1 (4.31 Ah/Day)​

​

Phones/Tablet/Game use = 38.766 Ah/Day​

ARB Fridge Spec (from ARB):

.7 to 2.3 Amps Per Hour​

Fridge uses 16.8 to 55.2 Ah/Day​

Yaesu FTM-400XDR

2 Meters​

Receive Only (Unsquelched, Fan running) 0.30A​

5W 2.2A​

20W 4.1A​

50W 7.2A​

​

70 cm​

Receive Only (Unsquelched, Fan Running) 0.30A​

5W 2.6A​

20W 4.8A​

45W 8.0A​

Assumptions:

7hrs of daylight, 12.0v system for simplicity, solar panels are 85w​

This website puts New Mexico at #1 in the USA with 6.77 hours Average Peak sun Hours: Sunlight Hours Rank | TurbineGenerator - https://www.turbinegenerator.org/sunlight-hours-rank/​

I like pictures so here is map from this website: Sun Hours Map: How Many Sun Hours Do You Get? - https://unboundsolar.com/solar-information/sun-hours-us-map​

​

It takes 9.285hrs to fully charge a Group 35 battery from 50% charge (~12.25 - 12.05v) with this panel according to the math here: Family Overland 200 build for a family of 4 + 1 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/family-overland-200-build-for-a-family-of-4-1.1253297/post-14253937


How much power can the Cascadia 4x4 Land Cruiser solar panel create?

Average hours of sunlight × solar panel watts x 75% = daily watt-hours.​

7hrs x 85w x 75% = 446.25 Wh/day​

​

Watt-hours = Amp-hours * Volts​

Amp-hours = Watt-hours / Volts​

​

446.25 Wh/day / 12v = 37.1875 Ah/Day​

The Cascadia 85w Land Cruiser panel can produce a maximum of 37.2Ah per day. (I doubt it's putting out this much power based on the specs on their website).

Outcome:

So, just 4 full charges of a single cell phone or a single charge of 4 phones (I have 3 phones and 1 hotspot), 2 full charges of a tablet (I have 2 tablets), and 1 full charge of a Nintendo Switch gaming system (all together) uses more power than the Cascadia solar panel can produce by 1.5785 Ah/Day.​

​

Add in an ARB fridge and you are now in a deficit of 18.4 to 56.8 Ah/Day. That’s not an insignificant deficit!​

​

My Die Hard Platinum Group 35 AGM battery has ~55Ah of capacity and about 27.5Ah of usable capacity if I run it to 50%.​

​

Keep in mind, we calculated these numbers using 7hrs of daylight which a full hour more of sunlight than the #1 ranked state in the USA’s average sunlight. I’m not including additional draws on my electrical such as my HAM radio, smart charger efficiency loss,​

etc etc etc ..​

​

Can someone PLEASE check my math? I REALLY want to like this panel solution!​

 

[grinchy]

Don't forget you have to point and tilt your hood at the sun to hit max estimates.

 

[joltman]

Don't forget you have to point and tilt your hood at the sun to hit max estimates.

And this is why I don't think it's a financially sound idea to make major modifications to a vehicle to accommodate a permanently installed solar panel. If you were parked in a shaded area for camp (which would be more comfortable) then you wouldn't get as much sun on the panel. If you had a portable panel with a long, sufficiently large gauged wire, you could move the panel to be in the sunlight and get more sun on the panel while still being comfortable. Yes, you'd still have to stow the panel, but depending on the panel, it and the cable could be stored in a roof box.

 

[bemerritt]

So I have a permanently mounted 100W panel that I talk about here:

Dissent Roof Rack Review

After receiving countless messages regarding the Dissent Roof Rack, I felt like it might be useful to just do a post regarding it. Yes there is a general Dissent thread, but I felt like this discussion could be productive outside of that large thread. I picked the rack because a) I also wanted...

forum.ih8mud.com

Panel plus charge controller and wires is about a $200 endeavor.

I have a "simple" electronics setup where I use an odyssey extreme agm under the hood and that powers my fridge/lights/phone chargers. I like this because worst case just idle and charge your battery up, but most trips i drive atleast a little each day. The solar is nice because the agm likes higher voltages than even what the diode trick can produce

your math is close enough. I always use 5 hours of full sunlight for my calculations. I have never had to jumpstart the vehicle.

 

[TheLCProject]

I mounted my Viair like this:

It's on the Slee dual ARB mount.

 

[TeCKis300]

That's awesome. Real world experience! Tell us more! Do you have any more details on your setup? What are you powering? What is your power draw in Ah/day? How long can your vehicle sit without being started while powering all those devices? Are you able to keep up with power demand? What is the battery size that you are charging? Do you have a build thread? I'm super excited to see your setup!

THANKS FOR THE INFO AHEAD OF TIME!


I just did a quick google search to make certain I'm not off base, and a quality USA made monocrystalline 150w panel that would easily fit on a roof rack (stock or aftermarket) is ~$155. Even when searching "expensive" sites they were under $250 ... for 150w. That's almost double the output at almost 1/3 the cost (2.7333). $419 vs $150 (panel to panel price) is a massive difference in price.

BUT a roof mounted panel doesn't look as awesome, doesn't provide anti glare, isn't as easy to install, and while I'm not going to store anything on my hood, storing something on my roof is a reality so I'm giving up that real-estate. All of those things have a “cost” …

I'm still struggling with this, but if I KNEW for certain that the Cascadia panel could stave off a dead battery (dead battery = 50% capacity of an AGM ~12.25 - 12.05v) while running a fridge, HAM TX/RX/APRS, charging phones and tablets for ~3 days I really couldn't ask for much more and anything larger than 85w is just solar I don't need. Ideally if I couldn't reach the fully charged goal (unlikely the panel could 100% keep up with that demand), and I'm just out pacing solar production and end up down to ~70-75% battery capacity (~12.37-12.55v), after 3 days that's realistically all I need. I'm rarely ever somewhere longer than 3 days without starting my vehicle. Once I start the vehicle up the alternator and DC/DC charger will take over and produce whatever solar can't.

SO, let’s do some MATH

My expected power needs:

Cell Phone battery 4,614 mAh x4 (18.456 Ah/Day)​

Tablet battery 8,000 mAh x2 (16Ah/Day)​

Nintendo Switch battery 4310 mAh x1 (4.31 Ah/Day)​

​

Phones/Tablet/Game use = 38.766 Ah/Day​

ARB Fridge Spec (from ARB):

.7 to 2.3 Amps Per Hour​

Fridge uses 16.8 to 55.2 Ah/Day​

Yaesu FTM-400XDR

2 Meters​

Receive Only (Unsquelched, Fan running) 0.30A​

5W 2.2A​

20W 4.1A​

50W 7.2A​

​

70 cm​

Receive Only (Unsquelched, Fan Running) 0.30A​

5W 2.6A​

20W 4.8A​

45W 8.0A​

Assumptions:

7hrs of daylight, 12.0v system for simplicity, solar panels are 85w​

This website puts New Mexico at #1 in the USA with 6.77 hours Average Peak sun Hours: Sunlight Hours Rank | TurbineGenerator - https://www.turbinegenerator.org/sunlight-hours-rank/​

I like pictures so here is map from this website: Sun Hours Map: How Many Sun Hours Do You Get? - https://unboundsolar.com/solar-information/sun-hours-us-map​

​

View attachment 2899991​

It takes 9.285hrs to fully charge a Group 35 battery from 50% charge (~12.25 - 12.05v) with this panel according to the math here: Family Overland 200 build for a family of 4 + 1 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/family-overland-200-build-for-a-family-of-4-1.1253297/post-14253937


How much power can the Cascadia 4x4 Land Cruiser solar panel create?

Average hours of sunlight × solar panel watts x 75% = daily watt-hours.​

7hrs x 85w x 75% = 446.25 Wh/day​

​

Watt-hours = Amp-hours * Volts​

Amp-hours = Watt-hours / Volts​

​

446.25 Wh/day / 12v = 37.1875 Ah/Day​

The Cascadia 85w Land Cruiser panel can produce a maximum of 37.2Ah per day. (I doubt it's putting out this much power based on the specs on their website).

Outcome:

So, just 4 full charges of a single cell phone or a single charge of 4 phones (I have 3 phones and 1 hotspot), 2 full charges of a tablet (I have 2 tablets), and 1 full charge of a Nintendo Switch gaming system (all together) uses more power than the Cascadia solar panel can produce by 1.5785 Ah/Day.​

​

Add in an ARB fridge and you are now in a deficit of 18.4 to 56.8 Ah/Day. That’s not an insignificant deficit!​

​

My Die Hard Platinum Group 35 AGM battery has ~55Ah of capacity and about 27.5Ah of usable capacity if I run it to 50%.​

​

Keep in mind, we calculated these numbers using 7hrs of daylight which a full hour more of sunlight than the #1 ranked state in the USA’s average sunlight. I’m not including additional draws on my electrical such as my HAM radio, smart charger efficiency loss,​

etc etc etc ..​

​

Can someone PLEASE check my math? I REALLY want to like this panel solution!​

If I may offer some simplifications and assumptions having done this for awhile with RV systems and my own overlanding.

RE battery voltage - don't get too critical on voltage breakpoints like 12.05V for 50% capacity. The reality is that there is no such precision in measuring battery voltage as it's subject to other significant factors like temperature and active draws, even micro-currents. A more realistic breakpoint may be ~11.7V for an actively used battery. You may notice early morning with cold that voltages can sag. It's normal and expected as the battery is a chemical reaction that slows with temperature.

Solar Panel output - An easy estimate of Ah production is 20-30% of Watt rating. So a 100W panel is worth about 25Ah. To some, that may seem small, but for 3 days, you'd need an equivalent of monster 150Ah battery to provide that same reserve, if we assume 50% draw.

Charging devices - assumption perhaps shouldn't be recharge devices from completely flat. Rather how much overall use of devices, and only to replenish?

I like the discussion on cost, or opportunity cost of various mounting configs.

Personally, I like the portable briefcase solar setups. The ability to point the array or pull it out from under shade is a big one. A hybrid solution may be good too, meaning smaller or some form of a fixed panel + portable briefcase.

 

[LegendaryKing]

Don't forget you have to point and tilt your hood at the sun to hit max estimates.

And this is why I don't think it's a financially sound idea to make major modifications to a vehicle to accommodate a permanently installed solar panel. If you were parked in a shaded area for camp (which would be more comfortable) then you wouldn't get as much sun on the panel. If you had a portable panel with a long, sufficiently large gauged wire, you could move the panel to be in the sunlight and get more sun on the panel while still being comfortable. Yes, you'd still have to stow the panel, but depending on the panel, it and the cable could be stored in a roof box.

Strictly from a financial point of view, doing anything to/with our vehicles is a bad idea all together.

Currently I'm running the Renogy 200w suitcase panels and do exactly this. It's stored in the Yakima Warrior roof basket and if I'm honest, it's just one more thing to do ...

So I have a permanently mounted 100W panel that I talk about here:

Dissent Roof Rack Review

After receiving countless messages regarding the Dissent Roof Rack, I felt like it might be useful to just do a post regarding it. Yes there is a general Dissent thread, but I felt like this discussion could be productive outside of that large thread. I picked the rack because a) I also wanted...

forum.ih8mud.com

View attachment 2900057

Panel plus charge controller and wires is about a $200 endeavor.

I have a "simple" electronics setup where I use an odyssey extreme agm under the hood and that powers my fridge/lights/phone chargers. I like this because worst case just idle and charge your battery up, but most trips i drive atleast a little each day. The solar is nice because the agm likes higher voltages than even what the diode trick can produce

your math is close enough. I always use 5 hours of full sunlight for my calculations. I have never had to jumpstart the vehicle.

FANTASTIC build!

I mounted my Viair like this:
View attachment 2900084

It's on the Slee dual ARB mount.

Thanks for the idea. That looks great! I might implement this idea. Any more/better pictures of the bracketry you used to mount it to the SLEE tray?

If I may offer some simplifications and assumptions having done this for awhile with RV systems and my own overlanding.

RE battery voltage - don't get too critical on voltage breakpoints like 12.05V for 50% capacity. The reality is that there is no such precision in measuring battery voltage as it's subject to other significant factors like temperature and active draws, even micro-currents. A more realistic breakpoint may be ~11.7V for an actively used battery. You may notice early morning with cold that voltages can sag. It's normal and expected as the battery is a chemical reaction that slows with temperature.

Solar Panel output - An easy estimate of Ah production is 20-30% of Watt rating. So a 100W panel is worth about 25Ah. To some, that may seem small, but for 3 days, you'd need an equivalent of monster 150Ah battery to provide that same reserve, if we assume 50% draw.

Charging devices - assumption perhaps shouldn't be recharge devices from completely flat. Rather how much overall use of devices, and only to replenish?

I like the discussion on cost, or opportunity cost of various mounting configs.

Personally, I like the portable briefcase solar setups. The ability to point the array or pull it out from under shade is a big one. A hybrid solution may be good too, meaning smaller or some form of a fixed panel + portable briefcase.

I'm going to say that I mostly agree with you.

I agree, all batteries have the voltage ranges they like to operate in at their respective temperatures; the voltages listed here are more used as a guide or reference than a hard line. None the less, it's good to point that out.

I agree that SOME solar is better than NO solar.

I agree that I rarely recharge from a completely flat battery, however there is no doubt in my mind that between all the incremental charging that I will use the entire capacity of the battery on most devices. I say this confidently as if I don't perform incremental charging I won't make it 24hrs on most devices.

The opportunity cost is the real driving factor for me. I have a 200w suitcase and it has so far done everything I could ask of it (no fridge yet), but it's just one more thing ...
In an attempt to improve efficiency, the attractiveness of doing nothing and having the panel deployed is REALLY appealing. It looks like bemerritt has already implemented the other option I was considering and on a rack I'm already in line to purchase for a reasonable amount of money. All the while not giving up any real-estate. Win, win WIN!

 

[TheLCProject]

I rotated the mounted on the Viair so it'd sit on its side and then drilled and tapped holes in the slee mount to match. I added a little bit of rubber to act as an isolator between the mount and the compressor. I could only get three based on where the compressor can sit on the tray. I might need to play a bit more with the exact location of the compressor on the mount because with it located exactly where it is now, I'll have to trim both left and right sides of the engine cover.

I'm going to move it as far inboard as I can and add a 45 fitting to get the hose pointed more forward so it won't interfere with the main engine cover.

 

[TheLCProject]

You'll need about 2" of clearance for whatever you put in this area to clear the engine cover.

 

[Tex68w]

I like your thinking! I am about to have BCDC installed and curious to hear what they come back to you with. Right now my plan is to run a jackery 100W while in camp. I am interested in full time hard wired solar option though.

I believe I've worked out a solution for those with 2016+ Cruisers who want to run the Cascadia 4x4 hood panels. It'll only allow for 70W total so keep that in mind and at a price of nearly $600 for the kit that's $8.50 per watt. The 2008-15 200 Series kit is the same price but affords you 15W more for a total of 85W, which while still low is nearly 20% more for the same money. This would be a nice add to a larger system if you could tie them in with a 100W+ panel in series but the entry price is steep.