I agree with feeling behind to see if the nuts were there. I installed the lower tailgate damper on my 2011- 200 and the nuts are there but the holes are not drilled out. Changed the hinge and drilled the damper holes instant smooth lowering
Factory sub tank - sourcing and fitment discussion (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter grinchy
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #82
Us dealer sent me an email, they couldn’t source 2 of the three parts as they were international parts. I declined the 4 nuts I had added just in case. Since this included fuel hose clips, I ordered a set of spring and set of screw tightened via Amazon. They offered the parts on the site, not sure why they can’t sell them. Most of the row skus don’t even show available. . .
also having second Thoughts on the evap hoses, probably should have just got a few feet of 1/4” fuel hose. These have to be adapted to the size of the evap hose (it’s larger, like 3/8 or maybe bigger) going in and out, so those probably should be dropped. Particularly if the canister relo requires extension of the hoses. Will know more when I get into it.
also having second Thoughts on the evap hoses, probably should have just got a few feet of 1/4” fuel hose. These have to be adapted to the size of the evap hose (it’s larger, like 3/8 or maybe bigger) going in and out, so those probably should be dropped. Particularly if the canister relo requires extension of the hoses. Will know more when I get into it.
- Thread starter
- #83
First wave shipments are now shipped.
Trying to anticipate potential install issues. I think it’s plug and play except for the different sizes and fitting on the evap vent line on and out.
The US piece is $40, I’m considering getting one to cannibalize and so I can get measurements on inside diameter and lay in the correct adapters ahead of install time.
Trying to anticipate potential install issues. I think it’s plug and play except for the different sizes and fitting on the evap vent line on and out.
The US piece is $40, I’m considering getting one to cannibalize and so I can get measurements on inside diameter and lay in the correct adapters ahead of install time.
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- Thread starter
- #85
pairs of
6-8mm
6-10mm
6-12mm
Brass barbed fitting inbound
one will fit . . . there is no way that evap hose is bigger than 12mm Id.
already have 6-6 mm on hand
edit: Evap hose on US models is 15mm inside, 5/8" brass barb fits perfect.
6-8mm
6-10mm
6-12mm
Brass barbed fitting inbound
one will fit . . . there is no way that evap hose is bigger than 12mm Id.
already have 6-6 mm on hand
edit: Evap hose on US models is 15mm inside, 5/8" brass barb fits perfect.
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- Thread starter
- #86
Had a chance to crawl under today and agree it seems likely. What I took for a plate was something else. Also the weld nuts toward the front seem to be installed. One is used by the charcoal canister bracket.
- Thread starter
- #87
Along with the charcoal canister the edit <canister filter> will need to be moved. In addition the portion of the <canister filter> hardline that is on the filler assembly will need to be cut off and attached to new filler (or left there) in the swap. This is at atmosphere pressure so it can go pretty much anywhere, and I think I’ll be replacing the hardline with some fuel hose to ease routing and placement. Depends on where the <canister filter> ends up.
without the tank it’s hard to say where the charcoal canister will end up, but a leading contender is outside the frame On the left side. That would require extending everything. . . For non ahc equipped likely outside the fender on the right side.
The sender plug probably isn’t present. . . Won’t know for sure until I have the wire and can see where it is intended to connect. But I didn’t see any empty plugs over there.
without the tank it’s hard to say where the charcoal canister will end up, but a leading contender is outside the frame On the left side. That would require extending everything. . . For non ahc equipped likely outside the fender on the right side.
The sender plug probably isn’t present. . . Won’t know for sure until I have the wire and can see where it is intended to connect. But I didn’t see any empty plugs over there.
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- Thread starter
- #89
I guess it's time to put this up.
- Thread starter
- #90
Circling the electrical for sub tank sender
E77 - The combination meter assembly, where the speedometer, fuel gauge etc are (12, 13, 14, 15).
EK1 - A junction connector on the left side, under the fuse panels (for left drive) (4, 5, 6, 7)
NK1 - A junction connector with the main tank fuel sender wires in it. The fuel sender wiring from the pump this is the first stop. (42, 43).
Of the five pins at the fuel pump, the sender is pins 2, 3.
MK1 - A junction connector with the sub tank fuel sender wires in it (PN 82163-60410) and for US models a junction connector with emissions wires in it (PN 82163-60420). The floor no. 3 wire plugs into the sub tank fuel sender, and this either plugs into MK1 on pins (7, 8) Of the three pins at the sender the pins are 1, 3. <Edit: The pins 7 and 8 are not reused by emissions stuff in US, but the two different MK1 will need to be joined into the single one 10 pin connector, at a minimum) <in US models, mk1 goes to ak1 under the dash. In rest of world models, mk1 goes to ek1. Both ak1 and ek1 are supplied by the same bundle from rear to front. Provisional conclusion: sender wiring requires a full run all the way to e77>
MK2 - 5 pin, used by trailer towing in US, terminates at MK1
MK3 - 2 pin, used by trailer towing in US, terminates at MK1
Note MK2, MK3 are not involved with the wiring we care about
E77 - The combination meter assembly, where the speedometer, fuel gauge etc are (12, 13, 14, 15).
EK1 - A junction connector on the left side, under the fuse panels (for left drive) (4, 5, 6, 7)
NK1 - A junction connector with the main tank fuel sender wires in it. The fuel sender wiring from the pump this is the first stop. (42, 43).
Of the five pins at the fuel pump, the sender is pins 2, 3.
MK1 - A junction connector with the sub tank fuel sender wires in it (PN 82163-60410) and for US models a junction connector with emissions wires in it (PN 82163-60420). The floor no. 3 wire plugs into the sub tank fuel sender, and this either plugs into MK1 on pins (7, 8) Of the three pins at the sender the pins are 1, 3. <Edit: The pins 7 and 8 are not reused by emissions stuff in US, but the two different MK1 will need to be joined into the single one 10 pin connector, at a minimum) <in US models, mk1 goes to ak1 under the dash. In rest of world models, mk1 goes to ek1. Both ak1 and ek1 are supplied by the same bundle from rear to front. Provisional conclusion: sender wiring requires a full run all the way to e77>
MK2 - 5 pin, used by trailer towing in US, terminates at MK1
MK3 - 2 pin, used by trailer towing in US, terminates at MK1
Note MK2, MK3 are not involved with the wiring we care about
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- Thread starter
- #91
MK1 is a 10 pin, and M1 is the side that plugs into the canister
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10 are used for emissions
<edit updates with routing of US MK1 to AK1>
*Even if one could update the connector to include pins 7, 8 for the sub tank sender, Mk1 ends up at AK1 under the dash, not at EK1 like ROW models*
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10 are used for emissions
<edit updates with routing of US MK1 to AK1>
*Even if one could update the connector to include pins 7, 8 for the sub tank sender, Mk1 ends up at AK1 under the dash, not at EK1 like ROW models*
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- Thread starter
- #92
I have an LX570, so this location already has the AHC reservoir and pump in it. It may still fit, depends on how much real estate the sub tank actually takes. If it doesn't fit only the US driver side behind wheel outside of frame is left. Definitely some work to get it over there. The more I look at the canister actual function though, the less I worry about impacts of moving it. These are all vent or evap lines, not liquid containing. The vent line post canister doesn't even have hose clamps on it . . .
- Thread starter
- #93
Box 1 of 4. Everything but the filler, the fuel pump, and the tank.
- Thread starter
- #94
**Danger Will Robinson**
The Combination Meter Assembly (Dash gauges) has different plugs between LX570 and TLC. I did not anticipate this! LX570 uses E77. TLC uses E7 and E8.
Note that if we figure out how to make the sender work on the TLC, you'll be looking for different pins on different plugs behind the meter assembly
The Combination Meter Assembly (Dash gauges) has different plugs between LX570 and TLC. I did not anticipate this! LX570 uses E77. TLC uses E7 and E8.
Note that if we figure out how to make the sender work on the TLC, you'll be looking for different pins on different plugs behind the meter assembly
- Thread starter
- #95
After reading a lot of factory manuals, it is almost certain that the US combination meter assembly does not support sub tanks. The part numbers are different, the breakout of the body wires is different, the junction connectors are different. Lot's of different.
I invested in a Toyota sender gauge to match the sub-tank in the original order. It's 415 to 15 ohm (full to empty). This is apparently an uncommon ohm range, and isn't supported in the aftermarket. Getting an aftermarket 415 to 15 ohm gauge is difficult (I haven't found one yet).
The tank is five hole, likely SAE standard (not confirmed yet, tank arrives today), so an aftermarket sender and gauge pair should be obtained if you want to go with a sender. Alternatively, you can order a gasket and screws and make a blockoff plate and run no sender.
I did look at some 'fuel gauge interface' black boxes, which allow for setting the high and low resistance, and identifying 'full, 1/2, empty' via resistance setpoints. These cost around $40 and ship slow boat. After some spreadsheet analysis it looks like this would be a suboptimal solution as well. The full to 1/2 (36 to 18 gallons resistance is much higher than the 1/2 to empty, due to the two gauges effective for most of the first half, and one gauge effective in 2nd half). The boxes don't do non linear curves, so flatline at the top isn't too useful and the 2nd half approximation while closer is also inaccurate by a couple gallons at most measuring points.
In fact, it is more accurate to put the gauges in serial and do a fixed divider (1.6 looked pretty good), than to go with the aftermarket interface box. I may end up doing this (option #1).
Another option is to run the sub tank sender wires up front, and put them on a 2 or 3 position switch with the main tank sender. Position 1 - main, position 2 - sub, position 3 - both (I don't think this position provides any better data than position 1 in use). This would utilize the stock gauge in the meter assembly, which is a 415 to 15 gauge, and display the fuel in the tank selected. I imagine in 90% of the use, it sits in position 1. And you flip it over to position 2 momentarily when you just need to know how much you have in the sub tank. (option #2).
It's easiest to wire option #1, as we have access to all the sender wires during install and can setup the serial and divider, then use the existing wiring for main tank gauge to send the vaule to the gauge. Option #2 has the advantage of exact reading on the sub tank when needed, but is a bit more difficult to install (run a wire up to dash from rear, monkeying around with the junction box AK1 etc).
I could use some help on making a good decision here . . .
I invested in a Toyota sender gauge to match the sub-tank in the original order. It's 415 to 15 ohm (full to empty). This is apparently an uncommon ohm range, and isn't supported in the aftermarket. Getting an aftermarket 415 to 15 ohm gauge is difficult (I haven't found one yet).
The tank is five hole, likely SAE standard (not confirmed yet, tank arrives today), so an aftermarket sender and gauge pair should be obtained if you want to go with a sender. Alternatively, you can order a gasket and screws and make a blockoff plate and run no sender.
I did look at some 'fuel gauge interface' black boxes, which allow for setting the high and low resistance, and identifying 'full, 1/2, empty' via resistance setpoints. These cost around $40 and ship slow boat. After some spreadsheet analysis it looks like this would be a suboptimal solution as well. The full to 1/2 (36 to 18 gallons resistance is much higher than the 1/2 to empty, due to the two gauges effective for most of the first half, and one gauge effective in 2nd half). The boxes don't do non linear curves, so flatline at the top isn't too useful and the 2nd half approximation while closer is also inaccurate by a couple gallons at most measuring points.
In fact, it is more accurate to put the gauges in serial and do a fixed divider (1.6 looked pretty good), than to go with the aftermarket interface box. I may end up doing this (option #1).
Another option is to run the sub tank sender wires up front, and put them on a 2 or 3 position switch with the main tank sender. Position 1 - main, position 2 - sub, position 3 - both (I don't think this position provides any better data than position 1 in use). This would utilize the stock gauge in the meter assembly, which is a 415 to 15 gauge, and display the fuel in the tank selected. I imagine in 90% of the use, it sits in position 1. And you flip it over to position 2 momentarily when you just need to know how much you have in the sub tank. (option #2).
It's easiest to wire option #1, as we have access to all the sender wires during install and can setup the serial and divider, then use the existing wiring for main tank gauge to send the vaule to the gauge. Option #2 has the advantage of exact reading on the sub tank when needed, but is a bit more difficult to install (run a wire up to dash from rear, monkeying around with the junction box AK1 etc).
I could use some help on making a good decision here . . .
Question... isn't subtank basically keeping the full tank full? In other words the stock gauge will stay at Full as long as subtank isn't empty. Once the gauge drops below Full you'll know you back to the standard capacity. Maybe not ideal, but might be not worth futzing with a dedicated gauge for the subtank or other solution.
Also it's not clear to me how reliable flipping of the sender to stock gauge will be. Some cars seem to have a logic where the gauge will never go up, unless reset by turning off/on the engine. 200-series may not behave that way though - recently I was driving on some hilly roads near while hitting reserve, and the reserve came on/off few times due to the fluid sloshing around in the tank.
Also it's not clear to me how reliable flipping of the sender to stock gauge will be. Some cars seem to have a logic where the gauge will never go up, unless reset by turning off/on the engine. 200-series may not behave that way though - recently I was driving on some hilly roads near while hitting reserve, and the reserve came on/off few times due to the fluid sloshing around in the tank.
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- Thread starter
- #97
Yes, blocking off the sender hole and running gauge less is completely a viable option. It does drain the sub completely before the main gauge would start moving.
Another option that would be easy is an aftermarket sender and gauge, wi the the gauge mounted under the car or in an out of the way place by the rear hatch. Then you could check sub tank capacity when it was necessary, but normally wouldn’t need the info. I’d probably do this now but have the Toyota sender already , which isn’t compatible with the aftermarket.
Another option that would be easy is an aftermarket sender and gauge, wi the the gauge mounted under the car or in an out of the way place by the rear hatch. Then you could check sub tank capacity when it was necessary, but normally wouldn’t need the info. I’d probably do this now but have the Toyota sender already , which isn’t compatible with the aftermarket.
Maybe mount a separate fuel gauge for the aux tank, instead of trying to reuse the factory one?
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Yes I know it's not as cool to have it integrated.
IMO the best hack would be if it was possible to add the aux tank fuel level to the MID. When you care about it you'd just cycle through using the DISP button until you got to that screen.
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Yes I know it's not as cool to have it integrated.
IMO the best hack would be if it was possible to add the aux tank fuel level to the MID. When you care about it you'd just cycle through using the DISP button until you got to that screen.
- Thread starter
- #99
absolutely could do this, but you'll need a new sender, as the Toyota sender appears to use a very wide (415 to 15 ohm) range. Typical is 200 to 30 or 90 to 0, or 0 to 90. I haven't yet found a gauge or adapter that will adjust the stock sender range, and it sinks un necessary cost in anyway, much cheaper for future adopters to just order a universal sender and gauge and install where you want.Maybe mount a separate fuel gauge for the aux tank, instead of trying to reuse the factory one?
AutoMeter GAUGE; FUEL LEVEL; 2 1/16in.; 16OE TO 158OF; ELEC; SPORT-COMP 3318 | Vivid Racing
Order the AutoMeter GAUGE; FUEL LEVEL; 2 1/16in.; 16OE TO 158OF; ELEC; SPORT-COMP 3318 at Vivid Racing. Shop Autometer at great prices, fast shipping, and 0% financing!Intellitronix LED Digital Gauges - Digital Speedometer Ships Free
Keep track of your engine parameters with easy-to-read Intellitronix LED Digital Gauges. Click or call 800-663-1570.www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com
Yes I know it's not as cool to have it integrated.
IMO the best hack would be if it was possible to add the aux tank fuel level to the MID. When you care about it you'd just cycle through using the DISP button until you got to that screen.
Since my plan was to be 'factory' and make it work (original hope was to have the existing gauge read both tanks like a factory install would), I have a hard to return intl Toyota sender already, and thinking of ways to make that work.
Yeah I figured as much. As I think you noted earlier you could "fix" the resistance range with an additional resistor added in parallel in the sender circuit... I did this with my Simarine Pico monitoring system in my trailer as the tank sensor range was too wide for the monitoring device, just sending a portion of the current to ground. In this case if it's a 415 ohm sender you could add a 120 ohm resistor in parallel and it would pull down the resistance to a max of ~95 ohms.
I agree staying factory as much as possible would be best. Just thinking about options
