Extreme 4x4 tv show and reality

[freepowder]

Have you seen <start heavy metal music> the Extreme 4x4 <stop that noise!> episodes where they build an "Expedition" vehicle?

They start with a CampaCub a purpose built trailer. Uh, well, ok.
Then they go buy an '02 Grand Cherokee. Really? Only 8 billion miles of wiring for every breakable electronic gadget in the world.
Then they replace the IFS with a Rusty's (gee, why them?) solid axle set up and some bumpers--the rear mounts to the body! Stout!
Then run 33" tires and 4.88 gears with ARB lockers.
They were gonna drop a V-8 in but settled for K&N cool air kit and a cat back.
No roof rack, can rack or spare rack. They did get a trash bag holder but they put it in the trailer. Perhaps the instructions were confusing. Or maybe they wanted all their clothes to smell like garbage. Hard to say.

Ok. Fine. Here's my idea of an expedition vehicle :

FJ60 stock motor with GM 4.3 TBI, headers and GM dizzy, H55 trans, I'd go diesel but for the cost.
OME 3" medium lift kit. Cooper STT 31/10.50-15. Why? You can find that size or close near anywhere, 33" not so much.
Hella headlights and foglights. Generic implement lights on roof rack sides and rear.
OOgah horn. Because I like 'em.
4+ rear bumper with can and tire racks.
4+ front winch bumper with winch
Full length Roof rack with three boxes on roof rack:
1) cook gear 2) camp gear 3) tools
Also on roof rack: Dining fly (maybe easyup), a tent if I need more space. I'm single and some very fortunate woman would be the only passenger, so I'll be pulling the bottom of the back seat and putting in a mattress and curtains on the windows--not for modesty but to keep the light out--cozy, dry and little or no setup.

Food box and ice chest strap down inside as do clothes.

With some minor differences this is the setup I ran on my '74 FJ55 for 15 years. Went almost everywhere, did almost everything, was never surpassed by any of the FJ40s in the SNLC at the time. It does everything the Grand Cherokee does with more reliability (IMO) and probably at less cost. Lots of stuff to break on a GC. Yeah, flip open tents are spiffy, but you have to pack 'em to leave camp if they're on the roof rack and take up all the storage space on the rack. Trailers mean you can take lots of crap but did you really need all that and at what cost both operational and purchase price? Granted if you're taking the kids and dogs a trailer makes sense.

That's my rant for the month. Ha.

 

[Fast Eddy]

How'd you like the trailer though?

A little bird told me there may be a very similar trailer for sale with a mud discount pretty soon.

Independent suspension, slide-out kitchen with sink, water tank and 12v demand pump, RTT included, 1000lbs before your gear and water. Any interest? If you have to ask how much you should probably go back to scouring the ads for a Candian m101. They are not what I would call cheap.

 

[freepowder]

How'd you like the trailer though?

A little bird told me there may be a very similar trailer for sale with a mud discount pretty soon.

Independent suspension, slide-out kitchen with sink, water tank and 12v demand pump, RTT included, 1000lbs before your gear and water. Any interest? If you have to ask how much you should probably go back to scouring the ads for a Candian m101. They are not what I would call cheap.

As noted, I'm not in the market, there could be those with kids and such that are though.

 

[Rubiconcruiser]

We are talking around 10 grand to get started.

 

[twoyotas]

freshpowder, I don't see a trash bag holder on your ideal rig. how do you expect to survive an expedition without one?

 

[freepowder]

We are talking around 10 grand to get started.

Lemme see, so far:

'85 FJ60.............$1800
3" lift kit.............$1900
R bumper............$1800
Wheels/tires.........$900
Rebuild ft end......$1200
Mod ft driveshaft...$300
Lights..................$150

Sub total............$8050

Yet to do:

Roof rack............$600
Ft bumper...........$900
Winch................$500
Sub Total..........$2000

Total..............$10,050

Don't have and don't know cost:
TBI, Dizzy, Headers, H55

Rest of the stuff I already have.

So, I'm thinking ten grand's a little light.
But it's still a lot less than any of the builds I"m seeing on Xtreme 4x4.
What do you think that Grand Cherokee/Trailer combo cost to put together?
I can't find the cost on Rusty's website but I'm guessing the solid axle conversion is about $3000 not including the axle, then they swapped out the rear axle, added 4.88 gears for a couple hundred, tossed in ARB lockers at $1000 each, and bought a trailer for only, well, Campa Cub is being coy about prices, so I'm guessing somewhere between $5000 and $8000. So somewhere around half the the budget is gone for a trailer you could well do without.

I mean for my money, simplicity and reliability are the prime ingredients. I want the minimum amount of stuff that makes the trip comfortable. And I want to do it for money that lets me buy gas for the trip(s).

 

[freepowder]

freshpowder, I don't see a trash bag holder on your ideal rig. how do you expect to survive an expedition without one?

OMG! How could I have forgotten that?! I mean I've been camping rough and four wheeling for a mere forty years without one but this IS the new millenium and utter ecological disaster is the certain result of such an egregious omission.

Thank you so much for pointing it out!

 

[The Machinist]

I'm with you on the excessive-ness and redundance of the Xtreame 4x4 builds. Can't they think of something new to do? I mean it used to be my favorite show, then they started to build the same type of thing over and over again, then they moved the time to an earlier slot so I'm always asleep when it airs. I've lost interest in The PowerBlock.

Anyone else wish they just kept their old line up? I'm talking about Trucks (with Stacy David) Horsepower (when they actually built cars) and.... ok so I can't remember if there was another one back then or not, but at least the shows were always different and entertaining.
Ok... now my rant is over


I wouldn't mind having an expedition trailer one day, but I wouldn't want to invest more than $1,500-$2,000 into it and I would probably build most of it myself. But there's no way in hell my 60 would have enough power to tow anything without doing an engine rebuild first; on my last trip I was barely making it up some of the hills. On our way back, even with 350-400lbs less firewood than when we started, I was pushing the truck to even do 25mph on the steepest section. Tackling this issue is going to become my next BIG project.

 

[NorCalBorn]

So basically the thing here is you all are discussing...


Fad vs. Fashion vs. Functionality.

FWIW I stopped giving a rats butt years ago about what others do and build and only care about what suits my needs. The shows are advertiser funded and steeped in Heep culture. Look at it like this, as much of a double edged knife situation as we can have here, it brings the hobby to the masses and puts it out there. More people interested means more chances at access advocacy. With that comes a certain about of imitation and redundancy, as well as idiocity, but again, access advocacy power which means the trails-etc. will be there for us and ours tomorrow.

Look at skateboarding and mountain biking in their infancy's for the tie in if I wasn't clear with my meaning. (First person who throws neon bits on a rig, I will kick your butt.)

 

[freepowder]

So basically the thing here is you all are discussing...


Fad vs. Fashion vs. Functionality.

Yep.

FWIW I stopped giving a rats butt years ago about what others do and build and only care about what suits my needs.

Me too.

The shows are advertiser funded and steeped in Heep culture. Look at it like this, as much of a double edged knife situation as we can have here, it brings the hobby to the masses and puts it out there. More people interested means more chances at access advocacy. With that comes a certain about of imitation and redundancy, as well as idiocity, but again, access advocacy power which means the trails-etc. will be there for us and ours tomorrow.

How many people watch that show and think, "Gee, I'd like to get into it but who's got $80,000 to build a 'mild trail rig.'" That might be the thing that most irritates me about this show--there's apparently no room for a rig that can be built for less than double the original cost of a new vehicle that can go wheelin'. They're constantly saying things like, "It's a lifted street truck." Ok, you can't rock-crawl with that, but you can go wheelin' and have some fun without destroying your 'lifted street truck.' My cousin says it's all because they're in TN or some such and don't have anywhere to go but off-road parks unlike here in Colorado. He could be right.
I've been doing this for forty years and the stuff we did with damn near stock FJ40's and '55's back then, when "Big Tires" were 31/11-15's and a 3" lift was adequate would blow the show's producer's minds. Yeah, we broke stuff but we went in, came out and had a good time for under (adjusted for inflation) $20,000 a rig. Consider the Rubicon, do these guys think all the magic fabricated crap that they're building was around in the '70s? How many people don't get into because of the way it's presented in this show?

 

[The Machinist]

Both of these are valid points, and the show will continue to exist regardless of our arguments about it here on mud.

 

[twoyotas]

(First person who throws neon bits on a rig, I will kick your butt.)

neon underglow tubes for rocklights, you could be on to something there....

then get all junk out of the back to make room for a couple of 15" subs, throw on some 22" spinners. It's all coming together now!

 

[cruiserpilot]

Yeah, but they did build that really cool, and cheap $, suzuki with the VW jetta diesel, and turned into a veggie oil burner. for around $5000 total! It's not all bad, take the ideas and forget you're watching a continuous sales promo.

 

[Fast Eddy]

Consider the Rubicon, do these guys think all the magic fabricated crap that they're building was around in the '70s?

The Rubicon Tr was very different in the '70s and even more different earlier. It was originally run in 2wd cars on wooden rims (originally a wagon road). Every time someone runs through there it gets harder.

 

[freepowder]

Yeah, but they did build that really cool, and cheap $, suzuki with the VW jetta diesel, and turned into a veggie oil burner. for around $5000 total! It's not all bad, take the ideas and forget you're watching a continuous sales promo.

Isn't that the Zook they just tore up and completely redid?

 

[rusty_tlc]

<snip>How many people don't get into because of the way it's presented in this show?

So they are doing a public service then right?


I see a couple of flaws with your logic;
It's not 40 years ago, times change
Coil over suspension is a good thing, it can be retrofitted on a 60 but Toyota makes some fine vehicles that came so equipped from the factory.
Packing all the heavy stuff on the roof plays hell with the COG even with 31's
33's are as common as most other size tires now days. You can find them even in remote areas.

 

[freepowder]

So they are doing a public service then right?


I see a couple of flaws with your logic;
It's not 40 years ago, times change
Coil over suspension is a good thing, it can be retrofitted on a 60 but Toyota makes some fine vehicles that came so equipped from the factory.
Packing all the heavy stuff on the roof plays hell with the COG even with 31's
33's are as common as most other size tires now days. You can find them even in remote areas.

Times change, true. But remember the Colorado state motto: Don't fix it if it ain't broke. I already have an FJ60 why would I go buy a new(er) vehicle when the one I've got does what I need? Years ago we used to say the difference between two wheel drive and four wheel drive is about a hundred yards. I'm guessing the difference between stock coil over and my ol' school leaf springs is about fifty. Not to mention that on Xtreme 4x4 they're always cutting the coil spring IFS front ends off everything and replacing 'em with solid axles. I'm afraid to cost that out. And even if I don't have coil overs, I already have that solid axle.

I'll end up with something around seventy five pounds on the rack, what does a roof-top tent weigh? I don't think that's gonna roll me over. I went a lot of places with an insanely heavy 12.50-16.5 and all the camp gear up there on my FJ55 until I went to TruTraks.

If I switch to 33's I'll have to swap out my 3.73s for 4.11s. I'd like to have a few bucks left over for gas when it's all built. I'd be curious how it'd run with 32/11.50-15s. Then again maybe not, I'm thinking there's about a $30-40 per tire difference between the 31's and either of those. There's also a difference in the HP required to turn all that extra rubber. Suffice to say, run what you will, I'll stick to my little tires and go as far as I will.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Isn't that the Zook they just tore up and completely redid?

Yeah, I saw something about them completely redoing the axles or something. I haven't seen the show in months, on account of being on the other side of the globe.

 

[Jetboy]

FWIW, I would build something very similar to this:

I'd build it on a 4door tacoma with a TRD rear locker and leave it mostly stock.

The beauty of this one is that it was built out of polypropylene honeycomb panels. I'm building a sailboat in more or less the exact same process: PP honeycomb core with fiberglass/epoxy on each side. It's about 1/4 the weight of plywood, well insulated, waterproof, and stronger. AND.... the best part is that it's also cheaper than marine plywood. A sheet of 10mm PP is only around $30. That entire camper when empty probably weights under 300lbs, probably less than 200lbs, but I'm not sure what the doors and windows add.

Anyway, this is all stuff anyone can do in their home garage. And I think it would make a more capable and comfortable expedition style vehicle than a typical SUV plus trailer combo.


Here's a link to the blog. The Super Camper

 

[freepowder]

FWIW, I would build something very similar to this:

I'd build it on a 4door tacoma with a TRD rear locker and leave it mostly stock.

The beauty of this one is that it was built out of polypropylene honeycomb panels. I'm building a sailboat in more or less the exact same process: PP honeycomb core with fiberglass/epoxy on each side. It's about 1/4 the weight of plywood, well insulated, waterproof, and stronger. AND.... the best part is that it's also cheaper than marine plywood. A sheet of 10mm PP is only around $30. That entire camper when empty probably weights under 300lbs, probably less than 200lbs, but I'm not sure what the doors and windows add.

Anyway, this is all stuff anyone can do in their home garage. And I think it would make a more capable and comfortable expedition style vehicle than a typical SUV plus trailer combo.


Here's a link to the blog. The Super Camper

That's pretty slick! Sounds like it would be good stuff to build a hard-shell roof rack too.

I still like the concept of setting camp separate from the vehicle, i.e. once camp is pitched I can hop in the vehicle and drive off without shredding a roof-top tent or having to pack up stuff in a camper.

Since I'm single, I'll sleep in the back of the Cruiser so no need for a tent.

'Camp' will consist of a 12' x 20' dining fly with a table and my kitchen under it. There's two boxes, the chow box @ 30# with all the kitchen stuff and the camp box at 35# with everything else, both go on the roof rack and both are old 105mm howitzer shell boxes. The dining fly goes on the rack, the table and ice chest go in the cruiser.

I haven't mounted it yet but I have a tray style can carrier that will bolt to the side of the double can rack on the rear bumper for my water can or failing that if it's a short trip I can carry one gas can and one water can in the existing rack. Or I may stick with my big orange gatorade watercan on the inside, cleverly sitting in a trashbag in case of leaks. Needless to say everything inside will be tied down.

If you have three or four people that really know what they're doing helping you camp can be set in about four hours.
If you're doing it by yourself camp will be set in about 15-20 minutes.

This whole setup has been tested over about 35 years of campin' and wheelin' and is elegant in it's simplicity and functionality. The only thing different is the lack of a tent--the ol' woman didn't like sleeping in the back of the ol' FJ55 that much 'cause I'd not figured out to remove the rear seat bottom so I could stretch out to my full 6'1"--I had to lay kitty-corner and she got stuffed into the corners. I have a tent should I need one, Cabela's Alaknak 12', that can ride in the back of the cruiser.