Everything I Ever Learned About Importing (2 Viewers)

[Diescipel]

What if....

The Canadian owner drives the vehicle across the border and completes the sale in the U.S.? And vice versa (U.S. owner takes vehicle across border and sells it to a Canadian)? Does this circumvent the customs/importing bureaucracy?? Is it illegal?

Tnx,
B

 

[Stickboy]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=8919&page=2&pp=50

adsilva response is worth wondering about...

 

[70seriesaddict]

What if....

The Canadian owner drives the vehicle across the border and completes the sale in the U.S.? And vice versa (U.S. owner takes vehicle across border and sells it to a Canadian)? Does this circumvent the customs/importing bureaucracy?? Is it illegal?

Tnx,
B

doesn't matter, any DMV is still going to want to see customs documents that show it was imported legally and duty was paid on it whether driven over by a Canadian or not.

 

[SNLC]

Well well well...we meet again Alex. I had wondered where you dropped off to, seems TLC's. Still got your restored 69 Patrol!? Got those Rovers out of your barn?? Seem you made some headway in your TLC imports from Canada...

Funny I been on this forum awhile and had not looked in here, would not even know this was you Alex if your name had not been mentioned so many times. You may remember me...Ian who is more than into Patrols...aka Fudd, aka Mad_hassler and now aka RMP&O!? The Patrol community misses you Alex and many people could use your rear window mold/jig you had made. If you are out of Patrols want to sell your rubber molds to me?? You never did respond to the last emails I sent you over a year ago...

I read Alex's first post on page one about importing and some of the others but don't have time atm to read it all with a bunch of thought processing. I started to educate myself on importing about the same time Alex did. Alex dropped out of the Patrol scene and has not been heard from since. BTW, Alex I have that 65 you once owned that comes from Montana. Gave the body to Keith in Alambama to use on a build up of a 62 Patrol. The motor is in a nice 69 in South Dakota. Chassis in my shop being given to a friend to build up a Patrol with, so every part of that 65 is being used. Any ways where was I...Alex being interested in importing TLC's from Canada, me being interested in Patrols from other parts of the world. Alex also going for a niche which is the 70 series and so forth, me going for a niche which is Patrols in general. I have done research on importing newer than 25 year old vehicles and Alex is right on, I don't know the details for Canada as she does as I have no interest up there in trucks, period. My interest is in LHD trucks and parts of solid condition, mostly Nissan Patrols. But I have a few things to add....

First if it is under 25 years old it is a major PITA. Plain and simple, you need to really be wanting something newer to go through the hassle to get it in legally. There are a few loops holes not mentioned that I didn't see, Have not read it all yet though.

-military import. if you are in the military and buy a newer, ie 98 TLC, and want to import it it is exempt from DOT and EPA. They will also often pay to ship it back on the tax payers dime. This also goes for gov employees such as a diplomat.

-Imported for AG use. This being farm use and the like. It can be licensed and titled for road travel but this is limited. It's primary use must be AG. many newer Mogs have made it in the states this way.

-Mining or construction use. Not a very good loop hole but has worked. Most recent known one is the 70 series Ute that was on ebay in Wisconsin and sold for about $24k.

-next loop hole is fire use. This means firetrucks can be imported through this loop hole if their main use if fire protection, ie forestry or civil.

Those are the only loop holes I can think of off the top of my head. other specialized uses might apply. You have a lot to loose if you import a truck not 25 years old and make a mistake. Customs can and will sieze a vehicle at your loss. They can and will charge you for storage. You can be required to export it and have to pay the price. Some examples of trucks have been crushed due to improper planning. Next you can screw it up for yourself on the next import. All these things is why I have no desire or plans to touch anything newer than 25 years old. It is also harder to turn a profit on newer trucks as they cost more to import and buy overseas in general.

In my eyes it is better to just wait it out. 1980's in 2005, 1981's in 2006, 1982's in 2007 and so forth. The RHD is not an issue on a 25 year or older vehicle too. Many places are also cracking down on the home built truck from imported parts. Some rover guys are feeling the heat on this.

Beyond all that I have to add this...and it varies from state to state. If you sell under 30 cars a year you don't need a dealers license. There is no need for an importation license to import cars or parts. You do have to pay a per import fee or get bonded anually. Customs brokers also are a good idea to work with. Besides all that you best be friendly and on good terms with your local customs agents.

Now while I have given away more than I maybe should here I do not fear being snuffed out by *cough* Vintage *cough* and others. Why? Simple it takes massive work to set this all up. It also takes having contacts in other countries such as Australia. You must travel there and know the ropes in that country. For many of these you need to speak the language and know how things are done. Not only between a buyer and seller but also for exporting and all legal paper work. You then have to find trucks that are worthy of import. Not an easy task in it's self half way around the world. And frankly where I am set up nobody is going to go, period. You will likely get hurt doing it unless you have friends down there. So really I don't see a big deal with providing a bit of info to a community. Plus I am never going to import large numbers of trucks so have little to fear from compitetion. My trucks will speak for themselves as I feel all trucks should so I will have happy buyers, simple just how I like it. I am after selling under 30 trucks a year of good quality to a selct few buyers. I am also after restoring these trucks and other rare USA trucks plus build up for specialized desires. That means I personally have a very small client base and there is not much need to fear competition from other importers or dealers. You won't see me selling misrepresented trucks or pushing them for huge profit so I expect my buyers to come to me in the future. I am also set up with shops to inspect trucks before import, overseas customs brokers and shipping companies in more than 4 countries. I know the ropes and put in the work, time plus cash to get this on the table...all I lack right now is large cash sums to begin importing numbers of good trucks. While I may be a newbie to importing it is all ready to go and I am confident my current two trucks on the way will be 100% hassle free. So good luck trying to steal my secrets! ;p Any ways enough of that....

Hope you are doing well Alex, hope you still have the Patrol and I hope you drop me a line when you get a chance.

latta

 

[Diescipel]

At the risk of starting a flame war....

Alex, I can see why you got out of the Nissan Patrol community................

B

 

[Diescipel]

I'm bumping up this awesome post.

BRB

 

[Cards81fan]

Ok, so maybe I am overlooking the obvious, but if it is a Canadian-spec'd vehicle over 25 years old (i.e. a 79 or older BJ4X Cruiser) is there anyting special required? I.e. letter of conformity or dealing with a registered importer?

Is all I have to do is have the paperwork that my state requires, and nothing 'importation-specific?'

If so, then that definately seems the way to do it.

 

[semlin]

good question, there is an 1980 bj40 in my neighbourhood for sale. i wonder is it legal to export into the us in 3 months without an RI.

 

[Cards81fan]

good question, there is an 1980 bj40 in my neighbourhood for sale. i wonder is it legal to export into the us in 3 months without an RI.

That is exactly what I am wondering, as that will be about the time I can buy a cruiser

Now, one more adamendum question:

Is all the NHTSA bureaucracy required to get thing thing across the border thru customs, or can I hop in and drive/tow/ship the thing back and deal with that crap in the states after the fact?

Because if the latter is the case... well.. let's not say I am planning something dishonest, but Oklahoma is not the most difficult place to perform some trickery on titling, VIN information, and 'custon vehicles' laws ("uh yea I did that conversion myself... none of those areas had vins so you just need to assign me a new one ...)

 

[SNLC]

well...obviously my word is not worth squat here....eh?

read: IF THE VEHICLE IS 25 YEARS OR OLDER IT IS EXEMPT FROM DOT & EPA!


why don't you guys who don't believe me simply go educate yourself instead of asking on a forum and waiting for a person to reply who you do believe. In 2-4 hours of reading, making phone calls and the like you will have the solution provided by US Customs.

 

[semlin]

sorry if the comment upset you. I was asking about where you still needed an RI, not whether it needed to pass DOT/EPA. I also mentioned a specific model because it's a diesel just in case that created a wrinkle. I exported my truck from the US to Canada so I know about dealing with US customs. Each time I called I got a different answer on the rules until I learned to deal with only one person. What I was looking for in that post was simply an affirmative or negative, after which I could make the calls you mention and figure out the details if I decided to do it. US customs is a long distance call for me.

 

[Chang-kuao-lo]

Here's some more importing woes: Everything in 70seriesaddict's post is pretty much bang on the money. I am able to import my BJ74 on a temporary basis (not more than one year, cannot be resold and must be towed out of the country if ever damaged beyond repair), as I am moving to the US on a temporary work visa. Fine and dandy, here's the catch: check with the state you intend to reside in and you will probably find that the state DMV will not allow a right hand drive vehicle to be titled, yer S.O.L. (even with the "older than 25 yrs" rule)!

Converstation with Toyota Japan:
-I am calling from Canada to inquire about information regarding a 1985 Landcruiser BJ74.
TJ: Are you a customer?
-Yes, I am the owner of this vehicle.
TJ: What information do you require?
- I am seeking documents to prove this vehicle meets United States EPA and DOT specifications.
TJ: We do not have any information regarding United States DOT or EPA requirements.
- This information is not available?
TJ: No, we do not reccomend importing this vehicle into the United States. (translation: this vehicle does not meet US DOT or EPA, OR: It's our information, and we're not giving it to you, so buzz off!)
- You have been very helpful, thank you for your time, goodbye.
TJ: Goodbye.

Wanna take a stab at it? Toyota Japan: 011-81-33-817-7111

Exporter in Japan: "Toyota Japan is regarding a exportation company like us with hostility, they do not give information to us always.
Also Toyota Japan does not know the US DOT and EPA. regulation."
There you go, an excercise in tilting at windmills.

Perhaps another route would be to contact the Japanese counterparts to the DOT and EPA, if they have any pertinent information, it would be a matter of public record. I wouldn't even attempt this unless I could speak Japanese.

Too bad, so sad, I might as well unload it here in Canada, it's a great rig and I hate to part with it. (see my ad in classifieds)

"Listen not to the honey'd toungue of your enemies, instead respond with the sound of thunder: YI!!"
-hsing-i proverb

 

[wesintl]

Fine and dandy, here's the catch: check with the state you intend to reside in and you will probably find that the state DMV will not allow a right hand drive vehicle to be titled, yer S.O.L. (even with the "older than 25 yrs" rule)!

That seems contrary to the 25 year rule.. I see RHD vehicles from time to time, MG's Mini's, etc.. what state is this Cali?

 

[Chang-kuao-lo]

Direct from NHTSA:

All passenger cars, motorcycles, multipurpose vehicles - MPV, or light trucks less than 25 years old imported for personal use (not resale) into the U.S. on a permanent basis from Canada should follow this procedure. This process may also be followed if a vehicle was originally imported from Canada on a temporary basis or if prior DOT or U.S. Customs clearance was not obtained.


Contact the manufacturer of the vehicle to request a letter, having them state if the vehicle complies with all applicable U.S. Federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS). The letter from the manufacturer must identify your vehicle by the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). READ THE LETTER CAREFULLY.


If the manufacturer letter states that the vehicle complies with U.S. FMVSS, except for minor labeling requirements, you have an acceptable letter. This letter along with your vehicle registration should be presented to the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection (Customs) at the border. Customs will review the manufacturer letter to assure that the vehicle complies. (DOT approval of the manufacturer letter was discontinued as of April 8, 1997.)


If the manufacturer letter states that the vehicle meets all U.S. FMVSS, except for the speedometer, or headlights, you may have these components replaced at a dealer authorized by the factory to repair your vehicle. In addition to the documents cited in item 2, above, you must present the invoice for the speedometer or headlight replacement to obtain Customs approval.


If the manufacturer letter states that the vehicle meets all U.S. FMVSS except for FMVSS No. 208 (automatic or passive restraint requirements) you WILL NOT be able to bring your vehicle into the U.S. on a permanent basis unless it is modified by an RI. If an RI is willing to modify the vehicle, it may be expensive and may change your desire to import the vehicle.


If the manufacturer will not issue a letter for your vehicle, the only method to import your vehicle on a permanent basis is to contract with an RI.


EPA approval is also required. You may call the EPA information line at: (202) 564-9660.

--Non USA Vehicles (don't matter if it's already registered in Canada!!)--
May 28, 2004




The following provides information concerning the importation of a passenger car, truck, trailer, motorcycle, moped, bus, or MPV built to comply with the standards of a country other than the U.S. or Canada. Importers of motor vehicles must file form HS-7 (available at ports of entry) at the time a vehicle is imported to declare whether the vehicle complies with DOT requirements. As a general rule, a motor vehicle less than 25 years old must comply with all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS) to be imported permanently. Vehicles manufactured to meet the FMVSS will have a certification label affixed by the original manufacturer in the area of the driver’s door. To make importation easier, when purchasing a vehicle certified to the U.S. standards abroad, a buyer should have the sales contract verify that the label is attached and present this document at time of importation.

A vehicle without this certification label must be imported as a nonconforming vehicle. In this case, the importer must contract with a Registered Importer (RI) and post a DOT bond for one and a half times the vehicle’s dutiable value. This bond is in addition to the normal Customs entry bond. Copies of the DOT bond and the contract with an RI must be attached to the HS-7 form.

Under the contract, the RI will modify the vehicle to conform to all applicable FMVSS and so certify the vehicle. Before an RI can modify a vehicle, NHTSA must have determined that the vehicle is capable of being modified to comply with the FMVSS. If no determination has been made, the RI must petition NHTSA to determine whether the vehicle is capable of being modified to comply with the FMVSS. If the petitioned vehicle is not substantially similar to a vehicle of the same model year certified for sale in the U.S., this process becomes very complex and costly. A list of vehicles previously determined eligible for importation can be found on the NHTSA web site at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import.

Since the cost of modifying a nonconforming vehicle, or the time required to bring it into conformance, may affect the decision to purchase a vehicle abroad, we strongly recommend discussing these aspects with an RI before buying and shipping a vehicle to the U.S.

For federal regulations concerning vehicle emissions contact the Environmental Protection Agency, Certification and Compliance Division – Imports Program, 2000 Traverwood, Ann Arbor, MI 48105, (734) 214-4100, or http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/. Information concerning duty or other Customs matters can be obtained from the Customs and Border Protection website at http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/leavingarrivinginUS/, or by calling that agency at 1-877-CUSTOMS.

For information regarding registration or operation of a properly imported vehicle in a specific State, we advise you to contact the Department of Motor Vehicles or other appropriate agency in that State since the requirements vary by State.

An RI is an independent business and may be selective in the type of work it performs. This agency does not endorse or recommend any of the listed RIs, nor does it imply or guarantee that any work or service performed will meet your satisfaction.


--temporary importation guidelines (Canada or elsewhere)--

As a general rule all motor vehicles imported into the United States that are less than 25 years old must comply with all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS), or be brought into compliance with the FMVSS by a Registered Importer. The following temporary importations are exempt from this requirement and do not have to be modified to conform to the FMVSS. A form HS-7 (available at ports of entry) must be completed.


NONRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES


A vehicle registered in another country may be imported for personal use for a period not to exceed one year. The vehicle cannot be sold and it must be exported within one year from the date of entry. Your passport number and country of issue are required on the HS-7 form. Use Box 5 on HS-7 form.


DIPLOMAT OR MEMBER OF AN ORGANIZATION DESIGNATED UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS IMMUNITIES ACT


A vehicle may be imported for personal use during your tour of duty. The vehicle cannot be sold and it must be exported at the end of the tour of duty. The vehicle must be registered through the State Department. A copy of your orders must be attached to the HS-7 form. Use Box 6 on HS-7 form.


MEMBER OF THE ARMED FORCES OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY


A vehicle may be imported for personal use during your tour of duty. The vehicle cannot be sold and it must be exported at the end of the tour of duty. A copy of your orders must be attached to the HS-7 form. Use Box 12 on HS-7 form.


RESEARCH, INVESTIGATION, DEMONSTRATION, TRAINING, OR RACING


A vehicle may be imported for research, investigation, demonstration, or racing. Unless the importer is a manufacturer which certifies vehicles in the U.S., the importer must obtain prior approval from NHTSA. Call 202-366-5291 for details.

Attach a copy of the NHTSA permission letter and the importer's substantiating statement to the HS-7 form. Use Box 7 on HS-7 form.


INTENDED FOR EXPORT


Vehicles or regulated equipment intended solely for export must be labeled or tagged on the outside of the container or vehicle that they are for export. This type of entry may used to temporarily import a vehicle for repair. Use Box 4 on the HS-7 form.

See for yourself:www.nhtsa.com/cars/rules/import/index.html
BTW: all this info checks out with a CPB supervisor I spoke with.
!!Remember!! check with state DMV, the right hand don't necessarily know what the left hand is doin'!

 

[Chang-kuao-lo]

oh yeah, state of Maryland, just talked to them on the phone, she, "never heard of a RHD vehicle being imported at all." only mail trucks can be RHD

 

[wesintl]

oh yeah, state of Maryland, just talked to them on the phone, she, "never heard of a RHD vehicle being imported at all." only mail trucks can be RHD

I've read all of it.. it's only off the website anyway. I could guess there might be an issue registering a vehicle less than 25 years old that is RHD... but to the comment of "yer S.O.L. (even with the "older than 25 yrs" rule)!" that I don't believe, and I would call BS on that lady... So close to D.C with diplomats etc. I'm sure there is at least one RHD that isn't a mail truck that is older than 25 years.

 

[Chang-kuao-lo]

I can't be sure about that either way RHD or n RHD in Maryland, anyway, she did tell me to email her outlining my situation, and how USCIS doesn't have a problem with this vehicle on temp importation, the message will be reviewed by the appropriate powers that be. Pehaps an exemption will be made, or has already been made, as the case may be.

 

[Cards81fan]

well...obviously my word is not worth squat here....eh?

read: IF THE VEHICLE IS 25 YEARS OR OLDER IT IS EXEMPT FROM DOT & EPA!


why don't you guys who don't believe me simply go educate yourself instead of asking on a forum and waiting for a person to reply who you do believe. In 2-4 hours of reading, making phone calls and the like you will have the solution provided by US Customs.

I certainly didn't mean to offend or upset anyone I read all NHTSA importation guidelines and they discussed the 'less that 25 y.o." vehicles. I assumed that over 25 didn't require the trouble, but I couldn't find anything in print describing those.

But thanks for the answer. That makes it pretty easy to understand at this point

 

[mot]

Exporter in Japan: "Toyota Japan is regarding a exportation company like us with hostility, they do not give information to us always.
Also Toyota Japan does not know the US DOT and EPA. regulation."
There you go, an excercise in tilting at windmills.

Perhaps another route would be to contact the Japanese counterparts to the DOT and EPA, if they have any pertinent information, it would be a matter of public record. I wouldn't even attempt this unless I could speak Japanese.

I did not want to come out of the woodwork until I had more information, but let me share with you what I have found so far and what I (hopefully) intend to do, as well as perhaps contribute a little to this thread/topic:

I have seen, at least, two examples of the US spec 80 series in Japan, LHD (big deal?) Well, read on...

I have read on the web page of a guy who had re-imported (vehicles built in Japan that were exported to foreign countries with slightly different trim pieces, options, etc...) a Mitsubishi Pajero something (io, Jr., Mini, I can't remember which one) from Europe that stated that, if possible, it would be easier to import the desired vehicle from the US, not Europe, as the US regulations are closer to the Japense ones than European's.

Now I don't know if that means that you can import (or re-import) any vehicles built in Japan that were intended for the US w/o major hassles. But I am thinking that if the Japanese government does not have any (major) problems re-importing vehicles from the US, especially in terms of safety and emissions, then there is at least some chance that the US would (shoud?) not, either.

Now that may not hold true if the US standards are more strict than the Japanese ones.

So this is what I was hoping that I might be able to do down the road so I might be able to export my friend's 1HD-T when he's going to sell it (maybe to me )in the next few months (due to getting married, like you care ):

If I can find out some concrete information on paper, stating that the Japanese regulations (safety/emissions) are, at least, on par with, if not more strict than, the US regulations, and present it to the appropriate authorities in the US, along with a letter from Toyota (Japan or US) that their 80 (or any other Cruiser, new or old, for that matter, maybe) are built to the same standards (sure there are exceptions as there seems to be stripped down versions of the Cruisers) whether they were intended for the domestic or foreign market (at least in the US), that might be good enough to allow us to export/import.

What do you think?
Do you think I've been smoking too much pot?

I also have been meaning to contact a gal in the PR department at Toyota here that I had taught English a few years back to see if she might be persuaded to assist me bark up the right tree in this matter.

BTW, I have contacted the Ministry of Transportation (I think), asking if they had any information that would be helpful in this matter on-line, but they said "No" (surprise!).
I have also contacted a guy that was selling his 80 which he had imported from the US (Oregon) for some information, but he was not too helpful, either.

Don't hold your breath that I might provide you with more definitive information anytime too soon. But I will keep on trying.

Lastly, I just want to thank you all for the great information you have been sharing here!

Any comments (no flaming, please ) or words of encouragement welcome!

Later,

Mot

 

[Chang-kuao-lo]

Mot, I take it you are in Japan?