Error Code P2447 Air Injection Pump Error... (2 Viewers)

[lx200inAR]

Not an expert, but I seriously doubt it. In a perfectly functioning system, the SAIS only runs for 30seconds or so at cold start, then shuts off and won't run again until conditions (cold start temps) are met again. All the kit does is trick the SAIS control into thinking it's not a cold start during startup. Also, all other cold start fueling models seem to work fine as well. I definitely still get the high idle (1300-1400rpm) on cold start, that tails off as it warms up.

 

[CharlieS]

Just hit this recently, seems my ageing 200 (2008, 181k miles) is finding all the faults that can be found. P2447 Code.

There are a lot of net articles out there like this one, which is pretty good I think: P2447 OBD-II Trouble Code: Secondary Air Injection System Pump Stuck off Bank 2 - https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/p2447-obd-ii-trouble-code-secondary-air-injection-system-pump-stuck-off-bank-2-by-jay-safford

Question for folks using the kit, or in general, are there any concerns about catalytic converter life, specifically shortening it due to clogging? Has anyone actually fixed a pump? I was under there this weekend and I couldn't even see the things from the bottom or the top. Looks like a real fun job especially as described here.

Which looks like a fun job?

The Hewitt gen 2 is pretty easy if you don’t have to install the block off plates (depends on which failure mode you have). The sensors at the back of the engine are in a snug spot, but totally doable, even with my big mitts. I do that piece laying over the engine on a couple of layers of cardboard.

I didn’t remove or replace the pumps, but I don’t think it is hard - if you remove the passenger tire and the splash shield they are right there.

 

[DecreedIt]

Which looks like a fun job?

The Hewitt gen 2 is pretty easy if you don’t have to install the block off plates (depends on which failure mode you have). The sensors at the back of the engine are in a snug spot, but totally doable, even with my big mitts. I do that piece laying over the engine on a couple of layers of cardboard.

I didn’t remove or replace the pumps, but I don’t think it is hard - if you remove the passenger tire and the splash shield they are right there.

I don't think I'll be able to not install the block off plates out of principal/over-caution, but I *think* this P2447 code means the valve is stuck closed.

Secondary Air Injection System Pump Stuck off Bank 2

Would love to know for sure, the valve replacement doesn't look terrible and could be a viable option to fix the system, which would be a different direction. I read about function checking the system but I think it requires the Toyota proprietary scan tool, not something that can be done via OBDII? Anyone know?

Talking specifically about the function checks documented in the TSB (posted earlier in the thread).

 

[HDJdreams]

I had a Hewitt kit when I bought my 200. I still had tons of problems with codes. I pulled the Hewitt and had a shop replace one of the pumps. (My bumper allowed easy access.). The independent Toyota specialist shop did say the system had the most complicated diagnostic routine they had seen from Toyota.

They said dealer don’t bother diagnosing and replace everything at $4k.

Now the doesn’t have to clear codes every day.

 

[DecreedIt]

I had a Hewitt kit when I bought my 200. I still had tons of problems with codes. I pulled the Hewitt and had a shop replace one of the pumps. (My bumper allowed easy access.). The independent Toyota specialist shop did say the system had the most complicated diagnostic routine they had seen from Toyota.

They said dealer don’t bother diagnosing and replace everything at $4k.

Now the doesn’t have to clear codes every day.

I just ordered 2 Tata (I think, based on the stamp in the picture) obviously Chinese aftermarket pumps off Ebay and will attempt this fix. I'm hopeful this may do the trick. Hate going non-OEM but for something like this which is, let's face it, superfluous emissions crap, I'm fine with cheap non-OEM replacements. 1/4 or less the price of the Hewitt kit and, in theory if my consistent P2447 (and only!) code is legit - it's the outside 'bank 2' pump that died. Maybe even same reason as Tundra - water ingestion. I'm even tempted to order the updated snorkel, but, need to see if it was truly water ingestion first.

Thinking I may also do a video and break it open to ascertain damage, and if I get crazy (and pump on bank 1 bench tests good) I *might* do a tear down of the new aftermarket pump for a side-by-side comparison! Why not? Well, feels like better plan to replace both while I'm in there. Not the hardest job in the world but not trivial like an oil change either.

 

[Craig Haworth]

I just ordered 2 Tata (I think, based on the stamp in the picture) obviously Chinese aftermarket pumps off Ebay and will attempt this fix. I'm hopeful this may do the trick. Hate going non-OEM but for something like this which is, let's face it, superfluous emissions crap, I'm fine with cheap non-OEM replacements. 1/4 or less the price of the Hewitt kit and, in theory if my consistent P2447 (and only!) code is legit - it's the outside 'bank 2' pump that died. Maybe even same reason as Tundra - water ingestion. I'm even tempted to order the updated snorkel, but, need to see if it was truly water ingestion first.

Thinking I may also do a video and break it open to ascertain damage, and if I get crazy (and pump on bank 1 bench tests good) I *might* do a tear down of the new aftermarket pump for a side-by-side comparison! Why not? Well, feels like better plan to replace both while I'm in there. Not the hardest job in the world but not trivial like an oil change either.

Well, I might consider passing on the Hewitt kit and replacing the bank 2 pump as well…. Depending on access, as I’m not 20 anymore, and hate becoming a contortionist working on cars. Just not 100% positive I want to mess with the computerized electrical system on my Landcruiser…… and electrical is my trade!

as for Chinese built parts, I’m really not a buyer of anything Chinese unless I don’t have a choice…. As the pricing difference often doesn’t justify the quality difference…..Just my opinion!

 

[DecreedIt]

Well, I might consider passing on the Hewitt kit and replacing the bank 2 pump as well…. Depending on access, as I’m not 20 anymore, and hate becoming a contortionist working on cars. Just not 100% positive I want to mess with the computerized electrical system on my Landcruiser…… and electrical is my trade!

as for Chinese built parts, I’m really not a buyer of anything Chinese unless I don’t have a choice…. As the pricing difference often doesn’t justify the quality difference…..Just my opinion!

I hear ya on Chinese made parts - I'm OEM or bust - except on this EPA mandated SAIS system. OEM pumps - last I checked - $369/each best price I could find.

 

[DecreedIt]

Ok pumps are in, codes gone, interestingly this morning I was in true limp mode, wouldn't go over 40 mph and took forever to get there.

Pulled codes and both pumps now dead, good thing I bought 2. I've not had a limp mode issue previously. Anyway. The codes include some ABS ones, cleared will see if they come back.

SAIS codes all gone, no more limp mode. I rate this job pretty easy the biggest PIA is getting the dual wire and hose clamps off.

 

[Markuson]

Ok pumps are in, codes gone, interestingly this morning I was in true limp mode, wouldn't go over 40 mph and took forever to get there.

Pulled codes and both pumps now dead, good thing I bought 2. I've not had a limp mode issue previously. Anyway. The codes include some ABS ones, cleared will see if they come back.

SAIS codes all gone, no more limp mode. I rate this job pretty easy the biggest PIA is getting the dual wire and hose clamps off.

View attachment 2740115View attachment 2740119View attachment 2740120View attachment 2740121View attachment 2740123

Hmmm… My secondary air units have been stuck for many moons…but never lead to limp mode. ?

 

[DecreedIt]

Hmmm… My secondary air units have been stuck for many moons…but never lead to limp mode. ?

It was a shock - I'm not sure if it was both air pumps, the ABS codes, or what. But, I presume it was limp mode based on the behavior - super slow to max 40 mph with accelerator pinned to the floor - thought it could be hanging a shift at first? Regardless, disconnected battery for the job - no lights after the job, cleared all ABS and A/C codes for good measure. No more limp mode, she's driving fine now, so . . . I don't know what causes limp mode, just assumed it was because both pumps had a code, I hadn't checked in a while. Originally only had P2447, this AM post limp mode - had both P2445 and P2447 - and those ABS codes ^^.

 

[DecreedIt]

New pumps back in

 

[04UZJ100]

Kudos for doing the work.

 

[DecreedIt]

Well . . . sh1t. Pumps went in Saturday, fired her up, no codes, drove happily Sunday and Monday - this morning? P2447 back. Limp mode back (@Markuson this is a real mystery why these codes are now putting her in Limp Mode as of Saturday). Cleared codes so we could drive safely, back to the drawing board? Looks like it could be something upstream (or down?) of the pumps - maybe the Bank 2 valve? The TSB posted earlier in this thread is . . . complicated

I'm going to see if we repeat on cold start tomorrow morning and if so, looks like a bypass kit is in my future. Thought we had it licked w/ the new pumps, it was worth it I guess, $100 and 2.5 hrs experiment.

 

[CruiserFan88]

I had this code last August/September. I did all my research at that point and in my opinion the general consensus from people who chose to repair/replace parts, about 50% had resolution. The other 50% continued to have fault codes even after Toyota dealerships replaced Pumps and/or Valves (underneath the intake manifold). I am surprised at the comment above regarding the Hewitt Bypass. However, the Hewitt Bypass Gen II is the kit you should purchase. I've read nothing but good things on this particular model.

Mine would always go into limp mode, every time. Purchased the Bypass Kit but its still sitting on the shelf. I cleaned the male and female connectors on the driver wheel well (behind fuse box) and cleared the code a handful of times over a period of a few weeks, kinda just waiting to see what would result. Sometimes it would come on, other times it wouldnt.

Guys with the Slee ARB Kit were having issues with those SAIS wires getting rubbed by the bracket so I went over my wires and taped up a couple of places that seemed stressed or had some tension in those wires. On a 2008, there is another connector that goes to the back of the fuse box that seemed to have a lot of play in my case. So I took the time and secured that connector with tape and zipties to strengthen. Now its been 11 months or so with no reoccurrence. I carry a code clearer with me just in case it happens on the road, it hasnt

Edited to add a couple more points:
1. Just had the truck inspected at H&H. (I see youre in Charlotte)The first occurrence showed up after picking up the truck and taking it home. Had to pull over at Queens to disconnect battery, etc. Not saying it has anything to do with them, but maybe something with the OBD2 glitched out. For clarification, I always take it there for inspection never had issues before. Will be returning in a month for 2022 inspection
2. I have the Rhino bumper and in hindsight cut a little too much off the inner fender liner which causes the pumps to get splashed more than factory. However installed the bumper in March so had 5-6 mo no issues. And none currently.
3. Its humid as f*** in Charlotte during that time and park in garage so maybe humidity played a role for a few weeks?

 

[lx200inAR]

Well . . . sh1t. Pumps went in Saturday, fired her up, no codes, drove happily Sunday and Monday - this morning? P2447 back. Limp mode back (@Markuson this is a real mystery why these codes are now putting her in Limp Mode as of Saturday). Cleared codes so we could drive safely, back to the drawing board? Looks like it could be something upstream (or down?) of the pumps - maybe the Bank 2 valve? The TSB posted earlier in this thread is . . . complicated

I'm going to see if we repeat on cold start tomorrow morning and if so, looks like a bypass kit is in my future. Thought we had it licked w/ the new pumps, it was worth it I guess, $100 and 2.5 hrs experiment.

View attachment 2742872

Did you check the fuse for the pumps? The Hewitt documentation says that the most common cause for P2445/7 is a failed pump. They seem to think that a failed pump regularly causes a blown fuse. They say if the fuse isn't blown, you should get a corresponding P0418 code along with the P2445/7, and that you will get that code once you reinstall the fuse if your pump is failed.

P2445 - Pump Stuck OFF Bank 1
This code is normally caused by the secondary air injection pump not being able to create proper air pressure because the pump impeller is damaged or the air pump motor has been damaged and/or blown the air pump fuse. If the air pump motor has been damaged, it is common to also see a P0418 code that indicates this. If the air pump fuse has blown, this code will display but you may not see a P0418 code until the fuse is replaced. If you only see the P2445 code during a cold start, the Hewitt-Tech bypass kit can clear it.

So maybe check the fuse and also, possibly double check that the pumps you installed both work. Sounds like you are back down to only one code.

Also, remember, if you clear codes, even if you repair nothing, it will take 2 full cold starts (7+ hours without running) before you truck will fail back into limp mode. So it's not strange that it took 2 days for it to fail.

 

[DecreedIt]

The Hewitt documentation says that the most common cause for P2445/7 is a failed pump. They seem to think that a failed pump regularly causes a blown fuse. They say if the fuse isn't blown, you should get a corresponding P0418 code along with the P2445/7, and that you will get that code once you reinstall the fuse if your pump is failed.

This is great intel, thank you, duh I didn't even think to check fuses . . . <insert amateur hour shadetree mechanic jokes here> I've NEVER seen a P0418 - only P2445/7.

So maybe check the fuse and also, possibly double check that the pumps you installed both work. Sounds like you are back down to only one code.

Well, unless I am totally wrong about which fuses they are - they checked out fine - continuity tests good. Per TIS it should be these 2 50 amp fuses:

You are correct, replaced pumps, cleared codes - 2 days go by - P2447 returns, which has me thinking valves.

Also, remember, if you clear codes, even if you repair nothing, it will take 2 full cold starts (7+ hours without running) before you truck will fail back into limp mode. So it's not strange that it took 2 days for it to fail.

Another 'duh' moment - thanks for this very helpful. I'll expect one Thursday AM then since the fuses check out.

This is starting to p!ss me off a little bit . . .

 

[lx200inAR]

Well, looks like it wasn't the easy thing. There is also the "driver" for the air pumps. I believe they are between the firewall and the main fuse box. Dont know of a good way to test that, other than maybe swapping the 2 you have if that's possible. See if you code changes from a P2445 to a P2447 or vice versa. Also, there always still troubleshooting the pumps now that they are installed.

This post from this thread talks about the drivers:

Error Code P2447 Air Injection Pump Error...

Well seems I got hit with the big issue that alot of Tundra owners are hit with. I need to figure out if it is the pump itself or the valve. There is no way in hell I am paying toyota $2k plus to fix this. No way. Now I know the service bulletin Toyota put out says it is now...

forum.ih8mud.com

And this thread has some good overall troubleshooting with the plugs that you check to apply power to the pumps. This thread is more about self inflicted damage, but deals with the same parts all the same.

Secondary Air Injection Code

Hi, I have a 2013 land cruiser with the 5.7 petrol in the US, and I'm getting a DTC for secondary air injection (P0419/$07E8 Secondary Air Injection System Control B Circuit). I am not getting a P0418 (SAIS Control A Circuit). If the pump itself is bad, shouldn't I get both a and b circuit...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[DecreedIt]

The Plot thickens. So been in this every 2 days or so clear the @#$% codes because the pumps didn't fix P2447.

When codes are there, we go into limp mode EVERY time - didn't used to do that. Today, a new wrinkle. Mrs takes it to kids' school - it's in limp mode, she doesn't clear codes, I'd forgotten - and there, NO START trying to leave. Fast click - classic solenoid dead/low battery type sound, the fast click/buzz.

Calls me, I come - try it - yup, no start, fast click/buzz, lights on, she reports it was in limp mode on the way to school - clear codes - starts right up. Drove it home, tried 3x more starts - all good.

I'd proactively replaced this starter unit when we got her, ~30k miles and 26 months ago.

W. T. F.? Is this a progression of limp mode? Coincidence? Luck? Are we looking at bad starter/solenoid already? I've never heard of limp mode codes and no start being related but, sure seems like they are.

 

[04UZJ100]

Why not just bypass it already?

 

[DecreedIt]

Why not just bypass it already?

Working on it. Purpose of last post was to check Limp Mode = No Start oddity. Seems . . . AFU to me, but, what do I know (apparently not much based on this thread )