ERG and running rich

[lowtideride]

i have not yet been able to put that new egr valve in because of lack of time. but my truck is running worse and when i start it up it puffs out some black smoke...signs of running rich i suppose... now it stalled 3 times on the way to work yesturday. so when i got there i removed the top vac. hose coming off the erg.. im almost positive it is the vac hose that opens the valve. so when i got out of work it ran perfect the whole way home..so it SEEMS like the egr is the sorce of the problem.. but i do not understand why i am running rich now???? would these two be related or do i have another problem on my hands??? is there a page or thread that shows how to adjust a stcok fj60 carb??

thanks for all the help..

p.s. my computer crashed so i wont be able to check this til tomorrow morning...

i have off friday and im gonna try and get the egr done and see what happens from there...hmmm ??? ???

 

[swank60]

Have you desmogged your whole engine? If not, you know what you need (FSM for emissions)

I had the run-rich problem a with mine, only it was all over the place. At idle, it ran fine, at speed and under load, rich. My problem came from the air injection system not working right.

I don't have my manual in front of me, but I'm guessing that the EGR would give you that problem - it's the only thing you've really been messing with, right? I wish that I could remember which way it works - because it does pump air into your intake at certain times...I'll be down at the garage later, so I'll get the manual and look it up for you.

Also, the last thing you really do is mess with the carb. It's a little backward, but the way Toyota says to do it is to go through all of your emissions stuff, your ingnition stuff, and even suggests rebuilding the thing before you adjust it...I'll bet getting that new ERG in will help, but I'm betting that something else is going on too. You do have a bunch of your vac lines blocked off, right?

 

[60wag]

If removing the the vac control hose from the top of the EGR valve changed the idle, then the EGR valve might be OK. You want the valve closed at idle. Hook an extra hose to it and suck on it at idle. If the engine stalls when you suck and idles ok when you don't, then the EGR valve is functional. You might have a problem in the EGR modulator. THis is the little plastic doohickey than controls the EGR valve. Make sure its hooked up correctly. The FSM has a test procedure in it.

 

[ERICH]

Hey
This is sort of related, on one fo my FJ60s it looks like someone replaced the EGR cooler tube to exhaust manifold gasket, they did a bad job of it. Where the bottom of the tube connects to the cooler they bent it, it is a little kinked, and leaks there. My question is how does this affect how it runs? When accelerating when it hits 2500 rpm it stumbles a little bit, is this the cause?
Thanks for your input.
ERICH

 

[swank60]

The leak in your EGR line would cause a vac leak that may give you some hesitation, but I'm not sure why it would wait until 2500 rpm. Do you have the FSM? It really is the only way to make heads or tails of this whole thing.

Lowtide - I'm looking at the manual, and what it says the EGR's primary function is to reduce your NOx...but it'll still effect your running because it introduces air into your intake. But I'd almost bet that your EGR isn't so much the problem as all the crap hooked to it...I'll post a few scans that might help as soon as I can get them done.

 

[swank60]

Finally...first one shows what hooks to what.

 

[swank60]

this one has some other details - what it's supposed to be doing.

 

[lowtideride]

swank60 (and the rest of the crew)thanks for all your help man.. i do have that and i checked to see if all the hoses are hooked up right and they are..so its 11:06 and i got the erg valve in hooked up and it goes thru the gears much better but at speed..but it still runs like a$$ and wont idle..but the erg did make it run better..

...ok this is the part that driving me nuts..somtimes ill be under the hood monkeying around while its running bad checking stuff out and ill go and slam the hood and the idle will jump what its suppose to be (choke out) it wont always happen but it will somtimes....so when i put the erg vavle in i also cleaned out the carb started it up ran like crap...

so there was nothing else to do in my bag of tricks but to try the fonzy aproach and start taping stuff lightly with a hammer and i tapped the coil and the idle shot right back up (choke out)...so i take it for a spin runs perfect.. come back shut it off take a leak come back start it up runs like crap tryed the fonzy thing on the coil agian but this time it doesn't work..just kept running like crap..

so it seems i would have a bad/loose connection somewhere? (anyone know a good place to check?) or would it be some kind of a valve getting unstuck when i slam the hood??
and remember the fonzy thing doesn't always work..im starting to get lost..it has a mind of its own...

if anyone has any idea i would be glad to hear it im up for anything...
thanks agian,
-al

 

[jeffroid]

Did you ever eliminate the fuel cut solenoid as a possible contributor? In one of your other posts I pointed out that I ran around and around in circles banging and hammering on stuff only to eventually find that mine had an erratic ground.

 

[lowtideride]

no i totally forgot about it.. doh.. i did look at it tho and everything looked fine even shook the wires and crap but i would like to double check and ground it out for sure...but i dont have anything to tell which wire is neg. to ground it out to the frame... is there anyway of telling????

thanks agian,
-al

 

[jeffroid]

What color are the wires going into, and out of the connector for the solenoid? I can't remember for sure, but after you tell me what colors your's are, I'll go look and see what colors mine are and tell you what I did.

 

[hj60]

It shouldn't make a difference (for testing purposes) which is hot and which
is ground. You're just completing a circuit to create a magnetic field to draw
a pintle off its seat. Just hook it up to your battery for a second to see if it
clicks.

 

[lowtideride]

i believe the colors are black and white with out looking at it..if it does not click..how much for a new one and where can i get it?

 

[jeffroid]

First things first. Even if it doesn't click, it still doesn't mean the solenoid is bad, so don't run out and buy a new one.

You described your truck is either running bad or running OK, nothing in between. If that is the case, you need to check the solenoid while it's running bad. If the thing is running OK and idling at all, the solenoid HAS to be working, and testing it then will prove nothing.

You will hear the solenoid click if you turn the key off and on. If you don't have anyone to help you turn the key off and on, leave the key on and plug and unplug the solenoid connector, listening for the click. If you hear the click, and you start and run your truck and it's still running poorly and not idling, the solenoid is probably not your problem. If you do not hear the thing click, proceed further.

Unhook the connector. From the solenoid to the connector, one wire should be black, and the other white with black stripe. The other poster is correct, it doesn't matter which one is which for checking the solenoid. Get some extra wire and figure out some way to hook one of the wires from the solenoid to the battery or a 12V source, and the other to ground. You should be able hear it click whenever you complete and then break the circuit.

If you can hear it click by doing this, yet can't hear it click by unhooking and rehooking the connector with the key on, that means the solenoid is OK, but you are either not getting 12V to it, or that you are not getting it grounded, which was my case.

I believe that the wires change color at the connector. On my truck, the black wire changed to yellow, and the white with black stripe wire changed to green. The green wire is the one I spliced into and ran to ground. If you have been following along up to this point, and grounding the green wire doesn't make it click, then splicing into the yellow wire and running it to the battery HAS to make it click.

I'm sure I'm making this sound complicated, but it's really simple. Post again or PM me if you need help. IMO, you need to eliminate this as a possible cause of your trouble before you go yanking off EGR valves and driving yourself crazy hammering on stuff.

 

[lowtideride]

haha well i am going a lil nuts...but i did get the new egr valve in and it ran smoother at speed but i am going to take your advice and try that out wednesday on my day off.. thanks for the reponse man...if it is the problem i will have to get your addy to send ya out a six pack..thanks

-al

 

[lowtideride]

ok heres the run down...i went out to the truck turned the key over and did not here a click unpluged it started it up gave it a few revs then it stalled as it should without it pluged in..so i left the key on and went and pluged it back in "no click" then i unpluged it and pluged it back in it clicked faintly. so i thought i would try and start it up and it fired right up and ran perfect..so i unpluged while it was running and it stalled but when i was connecting and unpluging it to hear for a click it was much louder than it was the first time i did it so i pluged it back in a started it up..ran perfect with no choke out even tho it was cold....


so can the fuel cut off selenoid not work so well at start up then get better and finally click on?? in which case it would be bad and need replaced.....or does it simply work or not work with no in between??? i have no problem getting a new one.. i rather have my truck run good than futz with this any longer..

thanks for all the help..
-al

 

[60wag]

It might just be sticky or dirty. You might try removing it from the carb and cleaning it out with some gas and compressed air. Be careful when unscrewing it and re installing it as there is a tiny oring on the nose that can be nicked. You might also pollish or spray some contact cleaner on the connections in the plug.

 

[jeffroid]

Interesting . . . The solenoid could indeed be sticky or dirty, or the erratic behavior could still be coming from the wiring. Mine acted very similar - it would be running fine, then it would die. I'd check the solenoid and no click or very faint click - then I'd start and run it and it would start clicking solid. Then soon after it would die again and no click. I ended up jumping the ground wire, green one, I believe, directly to ground and haven't had a problem since. I would definitely try this before I went out and bought a new solenoid, and I have no idea where you would get one.

Sorry to change direction, but . . . I've asked this question before and never got an answer. Is there anything wrong with permanently grounding the solenoid (the ground wire goes to the emissions computer). In other words, what are the ramifications of bypassing the computer and leaving this circuit permanently closed (as long as the key is on, anyway)?

 

[jwest]

[quote author=jeffroid link=board=29;threadid=16990;start=msg168218#msg168218 date=1086236584]
Is there anything wrong with permanently grounding the solenoid (the ground wire goes to the emissions computer). In other words, what are the ramifications of bypassing the computer and leaving this circuit permanently closed (as long as the key is on, anyway)?
[/quote]

This would prevent the system from kicking into deceleration mode.
At a predetermined rpm range the computer cuts off fuel via the solenoid for engine braking and also adds a little to fuel economy and emissions.

 

[lowtideride]

well i will go ground it off after i pick up some wire...deceleration mode? i thought that was with just autos???thanks for all the help guys

AND COOLCRUISERS IS HAVING A SALE ON THEM FOR 15 BUCKS...so it was no big deal to pick up a new one..thanks ill report what i find after i ground it...
thanks agian
-al