Equal Tire Balancer Problems

[macneill]

I just put BFG Mud Terrain 305s on my 100 and the tire shop used this product called Equal. It's a powder that rests in the tire and upon rotation, it "finds" the area to balance. I do a lot of beach driving and have tried to use auto deflators. The only problem is the stems clog up with this powder and I have to pull them everytime, defeating the purpose of the auto deflators. I'm very frustrated with this stuff. The tire shop also said given the size of the tires, lead was not an option.

Anyone else have any problems with Equal?

 

[ace10]

equal... as in the artifical sweetener?

 

[macneill]

Maybe, or it might have been Splenda or Sweet and Low.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Get a new tire shop. 305's are not that big of a tire that they should not be able to balance them to spec. Granted any mud terrain tire would be more difficult to balance but not impossible.

 

[NorCalDoug]

Don't they have a different valve stem or core that's provided with the Equal stuff? Sposed to keep the stuff inside rather than blowing out.

 

[bjowett]

I don't care for it... same valve stem issues, it never balanced that well, either. DW on my 86 4-Runner was uncurable until the Eqaul was painstakingly removed from the tires and regular wieghts installed. For tires like BIG bias swampers there is not much of a choice, but most radials balance well with lead.

 

[calamaridog]

I realize this is an old thread macneill, but just curious if you are still running the Equal tire balancer. There is an exceptional FAQ section here:

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/equal/FAQ.htm

Yes, yes, I know it's a LR site. Just read the damn FAQ's

 

[hank14]

I realize this is an old thread macneill, but just curious if you are still running the Equal tire balancer. There is an exceptional FAQ section here:

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/equal/FAQ.htm

Yes, yes, I know it's a LR site. Just read the damn FAQ's

That looks interesting. Maybe it would help my vibration problem at highway speeds? The only problem I have, is that it seems to be only in the front end, and doesn't change for when I rotate tires. Everytime I take mine in for rotation, they say the balance was way off. It has gone away temporarily, though, following a rotation on a Hunter machine (It took them 2 tries to get it right, though).

 

[calamaridog]

If you are having vibrations in the front end then maybe there is something else going on??? Maybe the front driveshaft? Or the R&P bushings are going bad? Bent rim? Don't know...

Those tire should be fairly round and they should be balanced so???

 

[macneill]

Cool. Thanks for the link. I eventually had the shop pull the Equal and put some lead on.

 

[hank14]

From what they say, if you can't use your Staun deflators, the stems weren't installed properly with the proper filter, and you need to pump a little air in them before deflating to dislodge any of the beads. It looks interesting to me. I'll check it out more.

As far as my vibration, it has totally gone away following a good balance, but recurred after a few weeks. It is worse on corners, and at speeds of 60-70 mph. It may be another front end problem, but I don't know. What about worn shocks or a bad shock (of which there is no visible evidence of from underneath- everything looks and feels very solid.

 

[calamaridog]

I'd have your mechanic take a look. When you grab the tire, can you wiggle it back and forth? I know the bushings would wear out on the Tacoma rack when running big tires and it would start to get sloppy. This was easily fixed with polyurathane replacement bushing for the rack.

Just doesn't make sense that it would be the tires when they have been balanced and rotated and all. Unless somehow they are doing it wrong? Some shops had problems balencing the Taco/4runner/Tundra rims, but they are different from ours...

 

[NMuzj100]

In my experience some tires have internal problems that can be balanced but not cured. You can replace all the running gear on your vehicle at the tire dealers recommendation but still not solve the problem. They are never going to admit the tires are the problem...

....but if the previous tires had good wear patterns and rode well and then the new ones brought with them problems I would just ditch them and get a new set. Even if they won't give you the warranty (of course eating the cost of 305s would hurt more than the passanger car tires I've had to give up on). But eventually the tires will damage the running gear and then the tire dealer will be right (it is the truck's fault).

IMHO the Equal stuff looks like a giant load of $hit.

It only works when on the road but not on any kind of balancer. It is only three ounces of polymer but it can figure out exactly how to balance the tire all on it's own. And if you get a puncture somehow you will need to add a new bag to balance the tire (the stuff can deal with missing lugs and flat spots caused by emergency braking but not a repair plug) . Of course their site does support my contention that some tires come from the factory out-of-whack but then advocates one of the stupidest concepts I have ever heard of to fix the problem.

Questions for macneill that might help us all learn something -

Did you get new wheels with the tires?

How much lead did each tire get to balance? This is a good indication of how close to balanced the tires started out as.

Did they remove the Equal from the tire before adding lead? If not how could they balance the tire with all the confused Equal doing God-only-knows while on the spin balancer.

And if they did how did they do it?

Have you tried a shop with the Hunter GSP9700 ? I don't have personal experiance but have heard good things and their website makes reasonable sounding claims. I noticed that dealers in my area are using them, maybe they are sending back defective tires instead of spending money chasing down non-existent running gear problems.

For others out there -

How much weight to balance your tire ? Please include size, brand, model of tire and wheel type. I think that less weight needed means a better built tire (or least a better QCed tire). What do you guys think?

From the makers of EQUAL (suppliers to only the top tire pros). New Look Tire Paint. You would think they would know enough to take "marketing" out of the company name. Can you think of any company with a really great product that has "marketing" in their company name ?

 

[NMuzj100]

Dupe

 

[hank14]

I just put BFG Mud Terrain 305s on my 100 and the tire shop used this product called Equal. It's a powder that rests in the tire and upon rotation, it "finds" the area to balance. I do a lot of beach driving and have tried to use auto deflators. The only problem is the stems clog up with this powder and I have to pull them everytime, defeating the purpose of the auto deflators. I'm very frustrated with this stuff. The tire shop also said given the size of the tires, lead was not an option.

Anyone else have any problems with Equal?

Macneil- does the shop who installed the stuff do it alot? According to the site, if they don't install the proper stems with a filter, it will clog and take a long time to air down. Do you pump a little air into the stems to dislodge any beads from the filtered stem before airing down? Do you have any balance or vibration problems?

 

[spressomon]

Centramatic Automatic Wheel/Tire Balancers

This looks like it would be worth checking out. Take a look at the videos too.

www.centramatic.com

 

[hank14]

In my experience some tires have internal problems that can be balanced but not cured. You can replace all the running gear on your vehicle at the tire dealers recommendation but still not solve the problem. They are never going to admit the tires are the problem..."

I think you may be on to something here. I looked into the Bridgestone warranty, and the Revo's have their Platinum warranty, which allows for free replacement for the first 3 years of ownership if the tires are bad. I'm going to talk to my local shop that installed them and see if they can order a new set to install to see if the problem is still there.

Everytime I have had them balanced (3 or 4 times now), the shop says they are way out of balance. Rotation doesn't help, either, so I doubt it is a bent rim. I have been under the truck several times now, and can't find any obvious problems. CruiserDan agreed as well, thinking it sounded like tires.

 

[calamaridog]

Hank, The chance of more than one of those tires being out of round is very low, I would think. What part of New Mexico are you in? Maybe I can find a recommendation for another shop?

Please read here. Gadget is an upstanding guy and his site is extremely popular with Toyota 4runner and Tacoma people. Read up on his tire balancing section for some very good information:

http://www.gadgetonline.com/vibration.htm

 

[jp213a]

The link posted by calamaridog on tire balancing is very informative. Everyone knows tire balancing is critical but I wasn't aware of all the possible defects and design flaws in tires, wheels, and tire balancing machines. It makes you wonder if tire manufacturers really have their tolerances set tight enough and do an adequete number of QC checks. The Michelin LTX's that came on my LC were good tires and the Michelin Cross Terrain's currently running are even better from a grip and ride standpoint on paving. Here's the link again http://www.gadgetonline.com/vibration.htm

 

[hank14]

Thanks for your input. I'll read the link later. The 2 things that throw me off are:

1. The vibration did go away after the second balance on the Hunter machine at a Toyota dealer. (It quickly returned, though).

2. Every time I have had the tires balanced every 5,000 miles for the last 20,000 miles, the shops have said they were way off balance. I'm thinking a bad batch of tires from the same lot?

I'm only 4 hours away from American Toyota in Alb. I'm about ready to take it up there for some more diagnostics, if the tires don't prove to be the problem.