Entry level vs. top tier suspension kits

[Tex68w]

I volunteer you to do a YouTube video series where you instrument and test all of the suspensions back to back on the exact same route and set of conditions. Maybe you can get the vendors to give you a set of suspension to evaluate? I'd subscribe.

Get the major suspension vendors on board to donate their kits along with a quality Toyota knowledgeable shop that will do the installs for free of charge simply for the publicity and then have a quality youtube channel do all of the video, editing and promotion along with me being able to pick my favorite kit to keep free of charge at the end and I'll volunteer my LC for the comparison. HAHAHAHA.

 

[linuxgod]

What size tires are you trying to run?

If you don't want a major lift, get some front spacers (about $40 a piece) which will give you 3/4" in the front and will level your ride out. If you still want to lift the rear slightly buy some trim-packers from OME and add those to the rear.

Tires up to 34" fit in the rear without a lift easily, even with spacers or lower offset wheels. It's the front that is an issue. You should be able to go up to 32.5" in the front without a lift or big suspension changes. 33" BFG KO2 (which are 32.5" tall) along with +50mm Rock Warrior wheels were an officially supported setup on the 2008-2011 LCs. They should work fine without interference on stock wheels as well.

 

[Tex68w]

I am not sure on the exact size just yet. I have been looking at 275/65's, 275/70's and 285/65's. All of which are between 32-33" if not smaller because BFG's are notorious for measuring well short of their indicated size.

 

[linuxgod]

The biggest easy-to-fit 33" tire is the 285/70R17 BFG KO2. And I think it fits because as you note they run small.

 

[Tex68w]

The biggest easy-to-fit 33" tire is the 285/70R17 BFG KO2. And I think it fits because as you note they run small.

I'll be staying on the stock 18's for now, so any suggestions there?

 

[TLC2013]

I’d recommend lt275/70R18 or Lt285/65r18. I have run both sizes. On stock wheels just the 285s and on my evo corse wheels I have run both. I prefer the extra height of the Lt275/70r18s. It gives up a little width but gains more height.

generally 275s are between 33.2-33.5 inches and 285s are 32.6-32.8 inches in diameter.

on stock wheels (and offset) 275s can look a little sucked in especially after a lift...something to keep in mind.

 

[Tex68w]

I’d recommend lt275/70R18 or Lt285/65r18. I have run both sizes. On stock wheels just the 285s and on my evo corse wheels I have run both. I prefer the extra height of the Lt275/70r18s. It gives up a little width but gains more height.

generally 275s are between 33.2-33.5 inches and 285s are 32.6-32.8 inches in diameter.

on stock wheels (and offset) 275s can look a little sucked in especially after a lift...something to keep in mind.

Would I need wheel spacers if running this tire with say a 2" lift? If so, .75" Bora or 1.25" Spidertrax?

 

[Moby]

I know this discussion has kind of moved past the original topic, but FWIW I'll never buy another suspension that I cannot tune via internal valving and external bypasses (not external compression adjusters), but that doesn't make this the right decision for everyone. I just got tired of buying suspensions and/or components that were supposed to be "perfect" for a given vehicle and then finding them not right for me. Not just on Landcruisers. The last straw was Bilstein PSS9s for my Audi A4. I want complete control and will settle for nothing else.

The upside is that can get complete control. The downside is that this also gives you the ability to produce a really bad result. You need a good tuner/vendor or to invest a lot of learning (and ideally both, so you can start from a very close baseline and just dial it in). I painfully built enough tuning experience to get what I want. It took time but the results are worth it (to me). You also need to be prepared for a bit more maintenance and they are more expensive.

The upside to a non tunable suspension is that it is usually pretty close. They are faster to get and usually require no maintenance. You don't usually need to shop around for a vendor that really knows their stuff and the specific vehicle in question. The downside is that if you don't like it you replace a component or the whole system.

Again, my decision is not right for everyone, this is just my view of the trade offs after buying many rounds of both tunable and fixed suspensions.

Testing fixed suspensions against each other makes sense. Testing tunable suspensions doesn't. King vs. Fox vs. Radflo vs. Sway-a-way of equivalent capacity is (mostly) about tuning. I can make brand XYZ work great and work terribly (and have).

 

[timjax]

I am not sure on the exact size just yet. I have been looking at 275/65's, 275/70's and 285/65's. All of which are between 32-33" if not smaller because BFG's are notorious for measuring well short of their indicated size.

You could honestly fit all of these sizes without a lift. Try the OEM coil spacer with them. Rubbing typically occurs at the front and rear of the wheel well, so a lift actually doesn't have as large of an effect as proper tire size, wheel offset, alignment, and fender liner adjustments.

Apparently the Heritage Edition stock springs are firmer and about 7/8" taller than the usual 200 series springs, giving a bit of OEM lift.

2008 TLC Refreshed with HE Suspension

Gents, I refreshed my 2008 soccer mom's suspension with the an OEM take-off suspension from a 2020 Heritage Edition, plus an OEM spacer up front. Added HE bronze BBS forged rims wrapped in BFGs. I went with the stock suspension to keep the wife happy with the ride quality but wanted just a...

forum.ih8mud.com

285/65r18, Heritage Edition Springs, and the OEM front coil spacer may be a good safe combination for adding some function while keeping maximum reliability and simplicity.

Take off your running boards and get out on the trails, you'll probably be surprised how this setup can handle the majority of off roading and daily driving. From this you can probably have a better idea for your needs, whether you truly need/want an entry level twin tube lift or a tier monotube coilover lift, as well as UCA's etc.


FWIW, I will say I am a big proponent of basic lifts for the majority of builds I see here on the 200 section. IMO, most high end lifts are overkill for most setups and would require more maintenance than their basic counterparts.

OME, Dobinsons, Bilstein 6112/5160, and Ironman FCP are great options for basic lifts, combined with SPC, Dobinsons, Blackhawk, or ARB OME upper control arms.

 

[TLC2013]

Would I need wheel spacers if running this tire with say a 2" lift? If so, .75" Bora or 1.25" Spidertrax?

With stock wheels and LT275/70r18 and LT285/65r18 spacers would not be necessary. Visually the truck will look better with the wheels pushed a little further out by the spacers.

With the 285s I had minimal plastic rubbing on the front bumper/fender liner and a slight kiss of the passenger side KDSS sway bar when the steering wheel was at full lock during slow speed turning. Dime sized polish mark on the sway bar.
I only have experience with the 275s after my lift,UCAs and aftermarket wheels and bumper. I anticipate the 275s would also experience the same fender liner rubbing which is easily corrected and possibly the same KDSS rub...however being that the 275s are slightly narrower the KDSS sway bar rub may not present itself.
Adding the lift didn’t seem to give me anymore clearance of the KDSS sway bar.

In regards to the suspension, you may want to look into the tough dog adjustable lift. I am very happy with their 45mm adjustable shocks. Each shock can be adjusted from setting “1 to 9” so the ride can be tuned to your liking. I generally leave mine on 3 or 4 during daily use and then soften them up when wheeling to setting 1. If I remember correctly the adjustment is only for compression not rebound like the top tier suspensions which are fully tunable.

 

[kbohtx]

OP, where in TX are you located? I have a pair of front coil spacers I ended up not installing, if you're interested in them.

 

[WookieMonster]

In regard to the original topic, I have had experience with the following brands, ICON, Bilstein. For reference, I ran ICON stage 1 all they up to their spendy stage 5 kits on my 4runner and Tacoma. While there was a noticeable difference in ride quality (mostly noticeable at higher speeds on rough terrain) I found the daily drives comparable. Consequently, I ran into some QC issues with the ICONS, specifically on two different occasions, new shocks with a blown seal both, of which required a rebuild (mildly frustrating). Furthermore, and this may seem insignificant, I found it annoying that expensive AF ICON kits charge you an extra 75 bucks for the spanner. I am not entirely sure I ever fully utilized the remote resi's and purchased it mostly for street cred as I was young and just wanted to buy the most expensive "best" I could buy. Being a tad older and wiser my plan for the LC is to run a non-adjustable kit (leaning toward Dobinson IMS) since it will see primarily slower more technical Overlanding, and then place saved cash towards the armor. Hope this long-winded reply helps!

 

[Reckless]

I bought the Icons stage 4 kit using stock spring (I wanted comfort) have been running them 80k miles no issue on the street (I do hit every pothole and jump at full speed and chicago is really chiraq with potholes/bumps). I did buy the remote reservoirs because I wanted the ability to adjust to my liking. It did cost more but I was able to find what I felt was nice and comfortable. It ran me $2500 on cyber monday for front and rears adjustable remote reservoirs. The only better option is tuned king suspension not sure how it works going with a progressive setup as opposed to digressive. I prefer digressive. For me it was a night and day difference between stock but I felt it had to do more with the shocks in the rear.

 

[TeCKis300]

Would I need wheel spacers if running this tire with say a 2" lift? If so, .75" Bora or 1.25" Spidertrax?

To add, spacers are not just about clearance. They can be utilized to fix offset which benefits suspension geometry and stability when lifted.

- Suspension scrub radius geometry is dependent on overall tire diameter. Increasing tire diameter wants a lower offset wheel than stock. For a 33-34" tire, optimal offset is ~+47mm to ~+40mm respectively. It's why rock warriors, designed for a 32.7" tire have an offset of 50mm.

- Larger suspension lifts increase the down angle of the suspension arms. This actually reduced track width, sucking the tires further into the wheel well. Spacers/lower offset wheels will counteract this bringing back some lateral stability which is especially helpful with the higher COG.

 

[Cruisin911]

Had OME. Dumped it for custom tuned Kings. Still cheaper than ICON. I ran ICON previously, never again. OME worked fine, Kings worked better. ICONs were not worth the money whatsoever.

 

[Tex68w]

I understand the basics of offsets and the differences between lifts, this isn't my first rodeo, I am simply asking specifically in regards to the 200 since I've never modified one before. It's best to pick the brains of the main fold as most here have multiple experiences with said topic. I haven't run an entry level gas shock kit in the better part of a decade so I wanted to inquire about everyones thoughts in comparison to the higher end adjustable stuff of which I have a lot fo experience with in recent years on other vehicles. My inquiry about wheel spacers was more so about improving the offset for rubbing issues, of course the wider stance looks better as well, but it's a secondary consideration.

It's easy to get sucked into wanting the best, especially when these are such pricey vehicles to begin with, but I am starting to think that for this vehicles use and purpose in the next 1-3 years, it won't need anything super fancy or adjustable as I won't be adding any additional weight other than sliders. Again, I am simply looking to get a better stance, more clearance and of course improved looks for the time being as a sort of stop gap to keep me content for the next few years. This is why I am leaning towards an entry level, non-adjustable kit as I am not sure I'll ever want or need more out of it and that won't be a given until it's no longer the misses ride.

My biggest concern is whether or not these non-adjustable, entry level kits maintain a ride quality similar to that of the factory setup or if they in fact make it worse. Of the kits available is there one that is deemed the front runner or are they all pretty much equals? I am also surprised to see that almost no one suggests or runs Total Chaos UCA's on these 200's, the SPC's appear to be the favorite from what I have seen here.

OP, where in TX are you located? I have a pair of front coil spacers I ended up not installing, if you're interested in them.

PM sent!

 

[Cruisin911]

I am also surprised to see that almost no one suggests or runs Total Chaos UCA's on these 200's, the SPC's appear to be the favorite from what I have seen here.


TC makes some good stuff. I am running the Camburg UCAs and am very happy with them. No squeaks, no problems.

 

[CharlieS]

My biggest concern is whether or not these non-adjustable, entry level kits maintain a ride quality similar to that of the factory setup or if they in fact make it worse. Of the kits available is there one that is deemed the front runner or are they all pretty much equals?

Hard to answer this question without data and quantifying "better" or "worse", understanding what you value (comfort, performance, etc.), and what driving conditions you most frequently encounter. I think the factory suspension is optimized to be good in a vast array of driving conditions - Toyota is really good at this. Almost any aftermarket setup is a compromise more in one direction or the other. In my experience with Land Cruisers, that generally equates to more rough road capability at the expense of other things like ride comfort. I wouldn't swap my kings for anything for bombing down a rough dirt road or crawling through the forest, but if I was on the paved streets 100%, I think the stock suspension is a "better" choice.

 

[FerrisBueller]

I am also surprised to see that almost no one suggests or runs Total Chaos UCA's on these 200's, the SPC's appear to be the favorite from what I have seen here.

I also was surprised. In other threads, people have said great things about TC UCAs, and I have purchased a pair I'll install when the rest of my Bilstein lift parts arrive. SPC does appear to be the most referenced UCAs in this forum, but that seems to be mostly because they're adjustable, not because people thought they were the bee's knees (this general attitude is what made me decide on the TC UCAs).

 

[USMCVader]

I looked at all the available UCAs before deciding on the SPCs since I had the same thoughts you are having about why they are so prevalent here, etc. As was said earlier, adjustability ended up being a big factor for me, driven mainly by my gut feel that I was going to have issues getting it aligned here accurately and wanted to ensure I had enough range to cover not only the stock wheels with the lift but the larger ones I will put on once the silly bolts on the RW trim rings stop beating me down. Another factor was the wealth of experience available on this forum with the SPCs, particularly since I went with the less common Dobinsons lift. My thought process was that while I might not have as much wisdom to pull on for the lift, those parts were much less likely to have issues, whereas the UCAs might have issues and the help would be needed. Made sense to me, but I appreciate that this logic might only be in my own head.