Engine stuck after sitting, need advice

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roostabunny

roostabunny

10 Year
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Threads
16
Messages
258
Hey all, hope everyone had a great Christmas! I'm having a challenge I didn't expect. Hindsight says maybe I should have, maybe next transmission rebuild.

I'll spare you the saga, here's a summup: 1991 FJ80 with a 3FE and an A440F Transmission

1.) The truck's been sitting for about 7 months
2.) I pulled the transmission about 6 months ago, and been working on that rebuild slowly.
3.) About 3 months ago (Mid-Sept) I took a detour to replace my oil pan gasket & rear main seal (while I was at it, you know).
4.) About a week ago, we mounted the rebuilt transmission.
5.) When I attempted to rotate the engine to align the flex plate with the mounting holes in the torque converter, I found that I couldn't budge the engine with a big 18" crescent wrench on the crank pulley bolt.

Rotating the engine by hand was easy enough in June, I think I used a ratchet or breaker on the PS pully and rotated the crank with belt friction in order to remove the TC bolts when removing the transmission. There's no starter in the truck, it was removed as part of transmission removal.

Here's what I've done so far...

1.) Tried moving in both forward and reverse direction with big crescent wrench
2.) Removed spark plugs
4.) Drained the new oil I put in about a week ago (didn't want to contaminate brand new oil with penetrant)
4.) Sprayed PB Blaster into spark plug holes - left it for a couple hours
5.) Funneled Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) into spark plug holes - about 1/2 quart total between all 6 cylinders - Left that for two days over Christmas
6.) Drained the MMO from the pan to verify that it had soaked it's way down through, got about as much as I'd expect.
7.) Tried moving crank in both forward and reverse direction with big crescent wrench
8.) Loosened all three accessory/fan belts
9.) Tried moving crank in both forward and reverse direction with big crescent wrench

One other thing - we were careful to push/rotate-3-clunk the TC all the way in, and the transmission pulled in with no fight, so I don't think it's torque converter interfering, but I'm open to anything.

But before I go unbolting the dang transmission again - am I missing something? Other engine moving techniques? Something dumb I forgot? Keep pouring MMO through it for another week?

There are many tales of 2-15 year sitting engines getting freed up, I'm not about to get stumped by 7 months sitting and changing an oil pan gasket. Least of all with a 3FE.

What say you, sages? Thanks in advance!!
 
Did you get the torque converter fully seated? I know you said it clicked 3 times but thats all I can think of that will jam an engine up in the manner you are describing. I've left engines sitting for years and as long as the intake and exaust weren't filling up with rain or overly exposed to the weather they turned over. I am not familiar with the 3FE flex plate, but can you get you hand or something in there maybe through the starter opening and spin the converter? It should move easily if you can access it. If it doesn't then that's an issue.
 
I've got nothing. I usually squirt transmission fluid on top of the cylinders and let it sit for a few days then rotate it by hand. The mmo should have done the trick though. At this point I would lean towards pulling the transmission to see if it is relkated to that and not the engine
 
Can you spin the torque converter behind the flex plate with no bolts in it? (1FZ-FE you can, unsure of 3FE)
Is the flex plate on the right direction? (1FZ-FE issue, unsure of 3FE)
Can you use a prybar or big screwdriver to walk the starter ring gear teeth one at a time?
 
Definitely sounds like a torque converter not fully seated to me. I have had a TC fall slightly out after fully seating it.

The TC should spin freely from the flywheel too as previously stated. So if the TC is fully seated, the TC should be able to turn if the transmission is in neutral.

Also, it could be a flex plate installed backwards. I would double check that.
 
Been there done that torque converter not seated. You should have a little less that 1/8" gap between the flex and torque converter before bolting it up.
 
Based on what I'm reading, I think I need to unbolt it and get access to the flex plate and TC. At least I've already separated the exhaust pipe as part of putting the transfer on, should make it relatively easy to back the whole assembly off enough.

Here's a thought... I can't reach the flex plate teeth with a pry bar from the access panel in the transmission adapter plate where it meets the bottom of the bell housing.

If that's unusual, that makes me think...
1.) Teeth further to the rear than usual.
2.) I screwed up and reversed the flex plate.
 
Looks to me like I screwed up and reversed the flex plate...

I don't have the best "after" pic, buut the before pic is very clear, showing the more curvy surface and the welds on the back side. Meanwhile, the front side is more flat and even. It should be obvious, with the timing marks and all, but I was rushing to finish up when my buddy came over to help me install the tranny. Now he's going to say, "I would've waited." Because now we need to pull it at least far enough to access the flex plate.

So the before...

View media item 63906
And the one mediocre "after" showing what looks like the front side of the plate facing backwards...

View media item 63908
And zoomed in on the "after" shot...

View media item 63907
It's a little tough with the angles, but it also seems to me that when properly installed, I would have been able to get a pry bar on those starter teeth, but flipping it would put the teeth out of reach back inside the bell housing ... as they currently are.

So, assuming that's the culprit, have I damaged anything for sure, or without having gotten to the point of rotating anything I might have just put some pressure from the reversed flex plate but still be OK?
 
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Forget my silly spy photos... I just went and looked and one of the the big fat welds from the back side of the plate is perfectly visible through the access hole. It's visible because the back side is facing the front of the truck, of course.

That's confirmation - hoping I can just pull the trans back, reverse & re-install the flex plate, double-check the TC and then try to continue?

I so appreciate this - it's why I posted up. Wondered if I was headed down the wrong path with stuck engines and you guys totally straightened me out! Thanks!
 
half k cruiser said:
Probably the TC but why are you using a big crescent wrench instead of a socket and breaker bar ?
Click to expand...

blkprj80 said:
I suppose the amount of damage may depend on how hard you tried to turn it when she was stuck...

Hope for teeth marks in the bell housing?
Click to expand...

I'm hoping my lame 18" crescent wrench (and out of shape physique) severely limited my torque.

As an aside, I didn't put a socket & breaker on it because I don't have a 46mm socket plus I would have had to remove the fan and shroud to fit it. Plus, my heart wasn't really in it... I couldn't fully believe it was stuck this bad after only 6 months AND I was really puzzled (now I know why) why I couldn't see/reach starter ring teeth from the access port.
 
Probably not too likely that you damaged anything. The flex plate is probably soaking up most of the pressure and deflecting some, but probably nothing too serious.

I’m pretty sure you can squeeze the flex plate out nicely with just the transmission back.


Glad you got it figured out. Congrats!!
 
When I replaced my rear main we put the flexplate on backwards. We had the transmission on a jack and were getting ready to mate the 2, and I noticed the timing marks facing me. Close call. The timing marks face the engine.
 
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Hey all, this is resolved.

My buddy earned sainthood by coming over on a freezing morning to help me re-do the process of unmounting and mounting the transmission so we could fix my flex plate error.

It seems like I used only partial logic... concerned that I would put the two flex plate rings in the wrong order, I got the order correct but flipped the whole stack. As a result, the dished ring ended up with its lip against the rear of the engine, which is what created the bind that was preventing the engine from moving. In hindsight, I should have known something was up when I was able to torque the flex plate bolts without having to prevent the flex plate from spinning.

We got the tranny unbolted and backed up without incident. We just created enough space to get tools in there. You've already seen the backwards flex plate, by this shot I'd already removed it. There was no damage visible, aside from maybe some very minor scratches on the inside of the bell housing, probably from assembling with a flex plate that was sticking further into the housing than intended.

View media item 64314

Here's the dished ring that was turned lip side against the engine/rear seal but was supposed to face the torque converter. Note the marks from where the bolts were when I disassembled originally. I missed that, among other things.

View media item 64315
Here's what I now believe to be the spacer ring between the engine and flex plate, complete with the new bolt marks I put in it. It's nicely chamfered on the edge probably so it won't rub the rear seal. It's symmetrical, so when I re-assembled I put my bolt marks toward the flex plate where they won't rub anything. Or, maybe I'm just hiding my shame.

View media item 64316

Here's the rear of the flex plate, with big glaring marks from contact with the torque converter.

View media item 64311
View media item 64310

...and the center part or the rear that fits the dished mounting ring nicely.

View media item 64312

And the front of the flex plate, complete with nice round marks from the torque converter bolts and, of course, the timing marks.


View media item 64308

View media item 64309


Once back together properly, everything moved as it should. We had to brace the flex plate when torquing because the engine moves quite easily (especially since I also removed the plugs and loosened the belts - *sigh*). We had easy access to flex plate teeth to move the flex plate with a pry bar from below. It was also quite easy to nudge the torque converter separately from the flex plate to get a bolt hole aligned with the access window. Torque converter bolts easily spun in with fingers, and we then rotated through all six again to snug them up.

Thanks again for the input - you guys saved me a ton of wasted time and effort!
 
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