electric LC

[UglyFJ60]

what about an electric FJ60.

Friend of mine has a 400 hp electric buggy that carries a propane Gen. to increase the cruising range. He told me it would cost about $16,000 to do it but think of the benefits. No more emissions, no more worrying about extreme angles, Flat torque curve, no more road tax, can maintain my stock gearing with the 33's, and plenty of tax breaks for electric/alternative fuel vehicles.

Operation cost after initial build cost

Recharge about 1 cpm
tires about 2 cpm
propane 3 cpm
replacement batteries 2 cpm (expected 100,000 mile life span)
replacement parts 2 cpm

thats 10 cents per mile .......... I figure my operation cost to about 60 cents per mile right now.


The big problem beside initial cost is I need to strip some weight. I need to make my fat lady a skinny lady because the batteries are going to add 1600 pounds, 17 gal propane tane tank, 10Kw Onan propane gen. and the only weight I lose is the engine and gas tank.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I would start with a lighter platform. The bright side is that is has a lot of space for batteries. Maybe you could pick up a crashed prius battery pack? Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[Kavik]

I've been curious about the feasability of a hybrid FJ60 also. I'm thinking something a little more humble (read cheap), however.

Preface...I have not by any means figured all of this out. Concept only.

The plan is to add a ~40 hp electric next to the 2F (at the bellhousing). It would be connected behind the clutch. Alternator and Starter would be removed. Batteries located in rear cargo area.

The theory is the electric would only load hard under acceleration. This would lower the demand for fuel for the 2F. It(electric) would not need to be strong enough to power the vehicle as a stand alone. However, it would provide a 40hp "boost" on demand/high intermittent loads.

As for the alt and starter. The electric motor would have strong regenerative braking. Also, this would provide plenty of charging for a battery bank. I suspect you would only actually use the friction brakes(disc/drums) in hard stops and complete stops. Most in town driving is only leaning on the brakes anyways. Hint - Brakes would last longer too

The starter goes away because you could just bump the elec motor to crank the engine to life. Trans in neutral, clutch engaged, viola.

The goal/reward is to offset 40hp of fuel demand. Essentially driving the gas engine like an old lady, but stacking the immediate torque of the elec to keep it driveable. Oh, and you can stomp on it too. 40 extra HP!

Weight? In theory, you would gain far less than 1000 lbs. Medium sized motor, medium sized battery bank. A FJ60 could easily gain 500-700 lbs. without turning it into an anchor (well, more of an anchor).

Keep in mind, this system would only really be beneficial in stop and go driving. Battery draw acceleration, braking regeneration. I think you could run a high volt battery bank, but not necessarily very deep. It's not about deep storage/range. It's about quick discharge/charge.

Long range trips would end up on gas only. But you are getting "highway" mileage anyways.

That's all I've got for now, except for a control system that could end up being proprietary. So, use your imagination there.

Any suggestions?

 

[UglyFJ60]

actually what you are talking about is more like the Honda which is superior to the toyota design. you are talking about a system where the electric motor's sole purpose in life is to assist the gas engine. the Honda insight got better mileage than the Prius gets in it's wettest dream

 

[Devils Paw 80]

actually what you are talking about is more like the Honda which is superior to the toyota design. you are talking about a system where the electric motor's sole purpose in life is to assist the gas engine. the Honda insight got better mileage than the Prius gets in it's wettest dream

The insight is a smaller, two seater car with a smaller engine. I believe the Toyota system is superior because it's possible to run the rig entirely on electric for short distances, hence the Prius's rated 60MPG for city driving-identical to the Insight's rated city MPG. Comparing apples to apples, the Honda Civic hybrid has mileage numbers significantly inferior to the Prius.

 

[Kavik]

If I was not greedy for power (or cheap), I would pull the 2F in favor of a hopped up 22r. I'm guessing it would shave a couple of pounds. The loss in low end torque would be offset by the elec motor. I'm guessing the a 22r would develop enough top end HP to match the tractor-esque 2F at speed.

Less weight and more efficient. But, again, KISS and more power w/ the 2F left in place...

 

[satchel]

Here's an interesting link for an add on electric motor that goes in place of your alternator. Doesn't look like is has or possibly will come out, but interesting none the less.

Electrocharger / Retrofit Hybrid :: Sigma Automotive

 

[ntsqd]

Having been on a HEV team in college and currently working for a company whose under development product dovetails nicely into hybrid systems, I see the Integrated Starter Generator Motor (ISGM) as the future of any Mechanically Coupled drive system. Any means of external attachment of a stand-alone electric motor is a parasitic loss that directly affects the efficiency of the whole system. ISGM's are really just flywheels that do other jobs as well.

The basic problem that I see in hybrid drive for a 4wd is that of mis-applying the technology. For a DD 4wd it might pay off. For an Overland/Camp rig/Off roader I don't see it paying off. For a dedicated trail rig it would be much simpler to do an Electrically Coupled hybrid drive system. Connect the motor(s) to the wheels in what ever manner your imagination and fab skills will allow, and then employ an efficient APU (genset) to get range beyond that of just the batteries. There is no reason that the genset has to run on gasoline, it could run on (bio)diesel, propane, methanol, etc.
In 1996 while attending an HEV competition on the East coast the school's HEV team leader & I discussed building an (H)EV crawler based on two forklift motors, 9" Ford diffs, a small bank of Yellow Tops, and a simple generator. It was very feasible then and it still is.

I also doubt the enviromental future of batteries. Simply throwing them away at the end of their life span isn't sustainable. Few of the modern chemistry battery designs are easily recycled and they contain heavy metals. Look at the battery in your cell phone and imagine trying to recycle those efficiently in large volumes. Despite their current problems, fuel cells hold greater promise and easier integration into the existing liquid fuel infrastructure.

 

[IndianDoc]

State laws and bridges

Please alert your local dept. of Motor Vec. to inform the state to check all bridges in your area as this thing (a 60) will weigh more than a Tank. Lots' of luck;p

 

[ntsqd]

I dunno 'bout that. The school's EV had 26 yellow tops in it and it was, without any passengers, right at the GVW for that passenger car. 26 yellow tops wouldn't seriously over load a 60.

It would really depend on how it was configured, i.e. how much electric range was needed or desired.
FWIW the trend in EV's is not to use 'car' batteries, but instead to use many, many small batteries wired in series/parallel configs to get the required pack voltage and the storage (range) desired. Also makes packaging a heck of a lot easier. Think of where you could fit ~600 size 'C' batteries in a FJ60 vs where you'd put 26 yellow tops!

FWIW part II Look into the A123 batteries.....

 

[lovetoski]

Despite their current problems, fuel cells hold greater promise and easier integration into the existing liquid fuel infrastructure.

Word.

 

[Gwynley]

This guy here: DriveEV.com: JeepEV - Jeep Cherokee EV conversion has converted his jeep so it is electric powered. Looks pretty neat to me, but only has a short range.

Batteries are getting better and lighter, but give it 2 years or so and they will be a lot cheaper. I agree about the environmental issues around batteries, but ALL batteries seem to be recycled in UK and Europe.

To extend the range you could use a bit of Solar PV on it!

I am doing a kind of hybrid, converting the fan, power steering pump and water pump so they are powered off Solar. The rest of the electrics will also hopefully be powered by the system meaning the alternator is doing very little.

I'm using 3rd generation thin film Solar PV which is under 1mm thick (including casing!) which is totally flexible and light.

Have a look at Overlandinthesun
and my build up thread; https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...dinthesun-london-2-capetown-hj60-rebuild.html


The theory is based upon BMW's efficient dynamics, where all of the above is powered by electric, but the alternator only charges when you are braking or not under load. BMW recon there is at least a 30% efficiency improvement, There have been a few test in the UK, which have shown these cars to be more efficent for everyday driving than hybrids!..

 

[ntsqd]

I was just talking to a co-worker yesterday about using PV's on an EV. It's problematic.

The PV's that I'm familiar with put out about 17 volts DC unregulated. Unless you use a lot of tiny panels it is hard to wire them in series to get up to nominal pack voltage, which can range from 48 volts to 350 volts. The car that I helped build is 343 VDC nominal. On the low end of the pack voltage range is easier, but vehicle performance suffers with a low pack voltage design.

Couple that with the low amps output of a PV and it becomes kind of pointless unless the car sits in the sun for long periods and is rarely driven.

Moving all of the parasitic losses (power steering pump, A/C compressor, etc.) off of the Prime Mover has been a goal of the auto industry for at least a decade. Their goal is no need for an accessory drive belt, and nothing crank or cam driven either.

 

[UglyFJ60]

I was just talking to a co-worker yesterday about using PV's on an EV. It's problematic.

The PV's that I'm familiar with put out about 17 volts DC unregulated. Unless you use a lot of tiny panels it is hard to wire them in series to get up to nominal pack voltage, which can range from 48 volts to 350 volts. The car that I helped build is 343 VDC nominal. On the low end of the pack voltage range is easier, but vehicle performance suffers with a low pack voltage design.

Couple that with the low amps output of a PV and it becomes kind of pointless unless the car sits in the sun for long periods and is rarely driven.

Moving all of the parasitic losses (power steering pump, A/C compressor, etc.) off of the Prime Mover has been a goal of the auto industry for at least a decade. Their goal is no need for an accessory drive belt, and nothing crank or cam driven either.

Agreed. Just not enough juice in solar for this application. I plan on running 192 vdc pack, so a total of 32 batteries. Don't plan on needed a recharging infrastructure either ......... going to have onboard charger powered by a 10KW onan propane genarator.