Electric fans

[Dave 2000]

I have posted this in the 80 tech section as well to maximise response/ideas ect.

I plan to remove the engine driven fan on my HDJ80,

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/365673-my-lc-80-thread.html

I have done this on pretty much every car I have owned with no problems. Has anyone here fitted an electric fan system that has worked well? I have looked around and it seems you guys on that side of the pond even have bolt in kits that appear to deliver the goods, whilst none appear to be made for the 80 they do appear 'modable'.

Many thanks

regards

Dave

 

[gerg]

I ran the taurus fan sucessfully for a couple years, but switched back to mechanical due to summer towing. I still think they have some really good bennifits, but for me I needed absolute maximum cooling which the stock fan gives me. I actually want to fit a mini truck fan as it fits the 60s shroud and has a better design and is slightly larger. It does rub the idler pulley though. I had the taurus on a a temp switch for low speed and toggle for high and could turn it off for those "incase I cross a river times" which now that im married and have kids, my wife would tear a strip off my behind if I took them on a road like that. Ohh well .

 

[Dave 2000]

I think the 80 cooling system much like any other car is over engineered to allow for towing etc which I never do and as traffic jams where I live are unknown...well alright there was THREE cars at the traffic lights the other day I think it is a complete waste of fuel driving something that I never use.

Of course there is the benefit of crossing water as well as the faster warm up/less fuel wastage.

I noticed last year Summit had a twin fan setup that would fit along with a slow/fast speed controller, I was also thinking that as my car is UK spec there is no booster for the AC so there would be better AC during the hot summers here in Spain.

Thanks for the reply, next project for next year coming up

regards

Dave

 

[roscoFJ73]

Im not convinced the fuel savings or any other benefits are worth it or if there are any savings. The electric fan only makes your alternator work harder which in turn makes the engine work harder.
I once read that the only reason car companies use the electric fans is they are a few ounces lighter,more compact and it allows you to move the radiator away from the front of the vehicle if needed.
None of these things are really needed on a large vehicle like Landcruser.
Car companies have been scrambling even more furiously to find ways to maximise power and save fuel in recent years ,but Toyota are still using the clutch fan on the landcruisers.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Im not convinced the fuel savings or any other benefits are worth it or if there are any savings. The electric fan only makes your alternator work harder which in turn makes the engine work harder.

That's my opinion as well.

I've got an electric fan on the faux-lux because I can't figure out how to get the shroud and radiator lines to clear the power steering gearbox on the left side. The day I figure out how to make all of that fit in the same space, I'll ditch the electric fan.

The nicest thing about the electric fan is that it doesn't run very often, which helps the truck warm up when it's real cold. The engine is also remarkably smoother when the fan isn't running, which I definitely like.

The downside is that the fan kicks on once the engine is already getting hot. If I had a fancy fan controller it would start the fan earlier, and speed it up as the engine got hotter, but I just have an on-off thermostat so I have to turn my fan on before I go up any really big hills to give it a head start.

If I lived in the flatlands it wouldn't be as big of a deal, but in the mountains here it's a definite drawback to the electric fan. And knowing how weak the alternator is on the 2LT-E I just hate the idea that my fan is wearing it out the brushes faster than they need.

At least with a turbo diesel that's my thoughts. I like the electric fan on my wife's Honda, because a normally aspirated gas engine just doesn't get as hot as a turbo diesel.

Dan

 

[Tapage]

I've been thinking in the same idea / project for while now ... and actually I decide going that route ( dual fans ) in Tencha ... with fancy controller and now with my upgraded alt should do it right ..

I'm taking this route in Tencha just coz I wanna take care of some temp climbing in a hard trail or even on road if I'm nailing her ..

Which it's not the case of Marilu .. I can nail her as much as I could and I couldn't make it go over 140°F engine oil temp ..

 

[Dave 2000]

Im not convinced the fuel savings or any other benefits are worth it or if there are any savings. The electric fan only makes your alternator work harder which in turn makes the engine work harder.

I once read that the only reason car companies use the electric fans is they are a few ounces lighter,more compact and it allows you to move the radiator away from the front of the vehicle if needed.
None of these things are really needed on a large vehicle like Landcruser.
Car companies have been scrambling even more furiously to find ways to maximise power and save fuel in recent years ,but Toyota are still using the clutch fan on the landcruisers.

Chrysler power the cooling fan of their Jeep with the steering pump, the savings come from the fact that the fan is only used when needed, Mercedes use an electric fan in their V8, there must be something in it or they would not invest in the testing/cost etc.

The fuel savings are factual it is the amount you save that is debateable which makes it a pointless mod if you do not do enough miles. I have covered over 49,000 miles in 2 years and 9 months, now if I average perhaps 25 MPG (imperial) I have purchased 1960 gallons in that time, now we all know the claims are around 9% saving in fuel assuming a mixture of city/open road driving, in my case it is 90 + % open road such is the area I live in so those figures could be even higher however, lets try and be realistic and assume I would save just 5% then if my maths are correct then I would have saved around 500 euros which would have more than paid for the fans. I have averaged the cost of fuel as well and not used the current price. at the moment if the fuel cost was to stay the same then I would be saving getting on for 700 euros over the same period and whatever amount for the rest of the period of ownership, just imagine what the savings are if I was to use 10% as a potential figure? On my V12 Jaguar coupe I fitted twin electic fans and reckon I got back around 3 to a gallon, when you are only getting 10 on a good day then it was well worthwhile.

You are correct in your statement that the alternator is working harder however this is only when the fans are on, in my case I doubt they would come on unless heat soak triggers them after switching off on a hot day or sitting in traffic which I rarely see.

I will be using one of the smart controllers as well, I plan to have twin fans with dual speeds.

There are other advantages, more efficient A/C for example, note the amount of 'mudders' fitting electric fans in addition to the stock unit for example. The ability to manually switch on to get rid of heat soak or switch off for water crossings which was a recent problem here in Spain with the flooding are other benefits worth having IMO. The heater coming up to temp earlier will be nice during the winter months.

Smoother runniing was mentioned and why not? It is something else not spinning around attached to the engine, apart from the drawback of the initial purchase cost of DECENT quality fans then I see it as a win win situation.

Many thanks for your opinion as it helps fuel debate and other ideas may start to come to fruition.

regards

Dave

 

[Douglas S]

I'm curious to see what you come up with. The ability to switch off for water crossings is very appealing to me.

 

[canucksafari]

I'm curious to see what you come up with. The ability to switch off for water crossings is very appealing to me.

Water corssing with or without an electric fan should not be an issue. You should be putting a tarp in front and creating a bow wave. I'd be more concerned with water - especially muddy water - getting into electrics.

 

[Dave 2000]

I'm curious to see what you come up with. The ability to switch off for water crossings is very appealing to me.

The Land Rover Discovery in my avatar had a van electric fan fitted, every one of the competitions I entered had some water obstacle to overcome (or should that be undercome?), the ability to disable the fan was essential, using a five pin relay whenever the fan was disabled a light would show on the dash, easy peasy wiring stuff.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

Water corssing with or without an electric fan should not be an issue. You should be putting a tarp in front and creating a bow wave. I'd be more concerned with water - especially muddy water - getting into electrics.

The bow wave works great however, there may be times when you have to stop or in some cases even reverse, the tarp will not help then, in fact petrol/gasoline engines are more prone to cutting out once the fan has thrown a few gallons around the engine compartment assuming the blades have not fractured and been pulled into the radiator and wrecked it. I always use a tarp in an effort to keep mud out of the condenser and rad fins in fact the UK 80's have a pull down blind as standard although mine was junked years ago.

You are also right about water getting into the electrics hence the reason to use decent fully sealed fan motors, relays etc would be up on the inner wing out of harms way.

regards

Dave

 

[canucksafari]

Hi Dave. I actually I was referring to water getting into electrics like the alternator, relays and connectors. Once you are stuck in deep water, you will likely end up with an insurance claim, especially in a modern truck full of electronics. The easy solution for real deep water is to avoid it unless you have deep pockets.

I believe that pull-down blind was not designed for water crossing but for cold weather operations.

 

[Dave 2000]

Hi Dave. I actually I was referring to water getting into electrics like the alternator, relays and connectors. Once you are stuck in deep water, you will likely end up with an insurance claim, especially in a modern truck full of electronics. The easy solution for real deep water is to avoid it unless you have deep pockets.

I believe that pull-down blind was not designed for water crossing but for cold weather operations.

OK with you now, I have considered swapping my alt position with the A/C compressor to prevent that problem. The upside is the open design of the Denso allows you to blast out the mud, something which could not be done with the old Lucas ACR's.

The blind may well have been used for cold weather operation but being so close to the rad made it ideal for fjording deep water, the only problem is the retracting spring often failed leaving it flapping around like a prick in a shirt sleeve.

Trying to limit deep crossings is always good advice, shame the designers of some of the comps never thought about that, water was often a metre deep and would enter through the heater vents!

regards

Dave

 

[roscoFJ73]

Chrysler power the cooling fan of their Jeep with the steering pump, the savings come from the fact that the fan is only used when needed, Mercedes use an electric fan in their V8, there must be something in it or they would not invest in the testing/cost etc.[/FONT][/COLOR]

The clutch fan only works when its needed also.Thats why its called a clutch fan.
Ive heard of owners replacing them on their 1HZ/1HD T,but have yet to see anyone document better fuel economy.

 

[John Galt]

The clutch fan only works when its needed also.Thats why its called a clutch fan.
Ive heard of owners replacing them on their 1HZ/1HD T,but have yet to see anyone document better fuel economy.

Likely not in your hot climate. In a cold climate the clutch stays engaged and the fan keeps turning, for half the year when it's not needed, and it makes the engine run colder.

 

[canucksafari]

Likely not in your hot climate. In a cold climate the clutch stays engaged and the fan keeps turning, for half the year when it's not needed, and it makes the engine run colder.

Sounds like it is time to redo the fluid. It should only be free wheeling. Even at -25C my will engage for a few minutes but then disengage when it comes up to temp.

 

[Dave 2000]

The fluid clutches never fully freewheel, there is always some parasitic drag.

Imagine you are sitting in traffic with in effect a stationary fan drawing no air (i.e. not using power to drive it), as the radiator temp rises no air is going to be pulled over the fan so the clutch unit would be very slow to react, in fact it would be relying on radiated heat in the engine bay, which means if your bonnet is opening your cooling syustem would not work which we know not to be true.

Correct functioning of the unit will see a constant pull of air over itself without this ability the clutch would not engage, of course there will be the heat radiating from the engine but that is going to take a long time to have any effect on the fan clutch, further evidence of the continual draw is without this steady draw of air your AC would not work when stationary when the engine is not very warm. The fan must draw heat from the AC condenser through the engine rad again something which would not happen if a fan was truly freewheeling, in fact a true freewheeling device would be frictionless and not rotate at all.



regards

Dave

 

[canucksafari]

Okay, perhaps free wheeling was not the correct term. But I can and have grabbed the spinning fan and stopped it. Yes, it gives you a good whack. However, it is not drawing much power from the engine until it fully engages.

 

[Dave 2000]

However, it is not drawing much power from the engine until it fully engages.

Agreed, but it is drawing power, the 'good thwack' you mentioned is your hand absorbing the power the fan has accrude in coming up to speed. You may recall I mentioned earlier, drawing power is factual (as in using fuel) how much is debateable and as it is a variable will always be a subject of debate as in now.

The primary requirement for me will be a better A/C system, fuel benefits/quicker warm up/less noise etc will be a bonus.

regards

Dave

 

[daboheme]

So you are willingly sacrificing engine cooling capability (there is no way an electric will keep up with a fully-engaged mechanical at 3500rpm!) to get a "better" AC system? Why don't you just add an additional electric fan to the the mechanical one, maybe in between radiators?