EGR, who has takin it out?

[lowtideride]

ive posted up once before but i did not really get too far.. and i did read the tech part about it..but i dint really get all of it :...so spill it , whos got the low down!! im about to rip it out of my truck!!! it will be runnin perfect then the egr will kick in a my truck will stall with out the choke all the way out... then it will kick off after a lil bit and it will run perfect agian...

 

[dogboy]

don't yank it just yet if you can help it..... and yes, EGR system problems have to be some of the more frustrating issues to obtaining a smooth running 2F.

I'm sure you've heard this a 1000 times BUT...., do you have the Toyota Emissions repair manual? For just a few ducats ($18 from SOR) you get a really thorough outline of the proceedures and tools used to test each part of your emissions system. From what I've read in mine thus far, there are other subsystems of the overall emission system that could also be impacting the performance of your engine. In short, my EGR issue with it's "Caddy Shack" bypass, may just be a symptom of other problems in other parts of the system...

Basically have resigned myself to going through each subsystem to verify correct operation until I get it all sorted out. Time consuming yes, but very educational as well and probably the only way I'm going to ensure passing smog for the new license come July.

If you do resort to pulling it, do yourself a big favor and hold onto it in case you ever have to pass smog in another state or you sell the rig.

-dogboy- '87 FJ60

 

[lowtideride]

sell the rig (gasp), NEVER (i hope)

thanks for the response.. i will go ahead and order that book from sor...

when my rig was running crappy i was pinching the vac hoses running into egr and the idle increasesed and seemed to run smoother.. so my egr is playing a huge role in weather my rig is running right..and a bunch of people have told me to yank it the helll out... but ill do whats ever best for my rig..so ill even bite the bullet and buy a new one if i have too(egr)...
i think SOR sells new EGR's... and i will most def buy one if it will make my rig run right... the other nite it bucked so hard it felt like i was gonnna bust a u-joint (spinnin 35's) so it is really time to do somthing about it...right now i got an extra 400 bucks and im willing to drop every penny to make my rig run good..

 

[jeffroid]

Definitely get the emissions manual and go through it. I wouldn't be 100% sure it is the EGR based on what you are describing. While you're waiting for your manual to arrive, if I were you what I would do is pick a time when the truck seems to be running right, and unhook and plug the vacuum hose that runs into the top of the EGR valve. Drive it like that for a while and see if it starts running crappy again. If it seems to be running OK, hook it back up and see what happens. If it still runs fine at first with the EGR hooked up, and intermittently starts to screw up, then it could be your EGR sticking open. If it instantly starts running crappy with the EGR hooked up that might not be the case.

I once had a problem with my air injection system (smog pump, etc.). The air from the pump was getting bypassed straight to the air cleaner all the time, which is not supposed to happen. While I had this problem, my truck would run much much better with the EGR unhooked, even though there was nothing wrong with the EGR system.

I'm not suggesting that is your problem. If you have intermittent idle problems it could definitely be your EGR sticking open. My point is that these systems can be interelated and things are not always as they appear. Just make sure it's your EGR before you yank it because it's a pain in the ass to R&R it and it's expensive.

I wouldn't recommend running without it permanently. It will ping like a mofo. From my personal experience, I wouldn't put anything but a new one back in because it's such a pain in the ass to R&R.

 

[60wag]

It could be the EGR valve itself, or it could be the EGR modulator (the vacuum control valve that controls the EGR valve) or it could be a vac hose/plumbing issue. Are you sure the hoses on the engine side of the carb are hooked up correctly?

 

[lowtideride]

hmmm well i ordered a new check valve from cool cruisers a lil while ago..because the pipe coming out of it rusted off and the hose felll off.. so i have a rubber booty holding the hose on to the check valve..i know the seal is not 100% because i can feel air getting pumped out by where i sealed it...so ill wait and put that on...but im almost positive that its not it.. becasue it leaks all the time...but my cruiser will run perfect. i mean better than most of my friends cars..a sold idle of 700rpms no loping, no hesitation, it will just run perfect... and then a all the sudden the engine will shut off if im at a stop like someone fliped on the (run like crap switch) and ill start it back up and it will idle alll over the place with the choke all the way out...it will prob do this for about 10 ,15 mins than bam it will unstick or the cruiser god will flip the switch back off and it will run great agian.. maybe for the rest of the day or maybe for days...its completely erratic...so like i said above i was pitching erg hoses when i was runnin like crap and the idle increased and it ran better....so the only thing i can think it is the egr system...if i have to replace ill do it..its not too bad for a new one...checked it out last nite $150 from cool cruisers...so i still dont know what to do...ill put the check valve on and see if it does the trick but i doubt it...

 

[lowtideride]

oh i meant the check valve going into my air rail...sorry bout that

 

[jeffroid]

Recently I had a similar problem to what you describe. I was certain it was my EGR valve sticking open because sometimes when it started screwing up and wouldn't idle, I would go out and bang on the EGR and that seemed like it was fixing the problem.

What was actually going on is that my fuel cut solenoid on the carb had an erratic ground. The symptoms for a stuck open EGR valve and a bad fuel cut solenoid are very similar. It seemed like banging on the EGR was doing something when actually all that was happening was that my solenoid was randomly working and not working. To further confuse me, by banging on my EGR valve like I was doing, I ended up bending it so that the air bellows thing on top was no longer perpindicular to the stem and seat, which wouldn't let it close properly. I finally figured it out, replaced the EGR, and permanently grounded my solenoid. I'm not too happy about having to permanently ground it because that bypasses the emissions computer, but that's another topic.

Maybe you could try like I suggested and pick a time when it's running good. When it's idling that good, the EGR valve HAS to be closed. Then disconnect the hose on top of the EGR and plug it. With that hose disconnected the EGR CAN'T open. Then drive it for a while. If the "run like crap switch" doesnt' come on, that's probably your problem. If it starts running like crap again while your EGR is closed and disabled, check the solenoid. All you have to do is turn the key on and disconnect and reconnect the connector over and over and listen for the click. It is possible that your solenoid just happened to start working again while you were fiddling with the vacuum hoses to the EGR.

Sorry to keep throwing new ideas at you - just trying to help.

 

[lowtideride]

jeffroid...no man keep throwing ideas my way... thanks for all the help...so what did ya do to your fuel cut off solenoid? just run a ground to the truck somewhere off the black wire?

 

[jeffroid]

Man, I posted a response to yours this afternoon, but it didn't take for some reason.

Anyway, yes, splice into and ground the negative wire from the solenoid to the frame or anything metal that is bolted to the frame or body. I'm not sure it's the black wire, though. I can't be sure because before I figured out what was going on, I spliced in a new connector and it's now hard to tell what color was what. I just went and looked and it appears that there were black and white with black stripe wires coming out of the solenoid. But at the connector it appears that the colors changed to yellow and green ? ? ? The green wire that dissapears into the wiring harness is the one that I have tapped into and grounded to the body. Just to be sure you might want to get a volt meter or a test light and check to see which wire gets juice when the key is turned on. The other one, of course, goes to ground.

I wouldn't mess with that, though, until I was sure that there was no clicking sound when you unhooked and rehooked the connector with the key on. Or even just get someone to turn the key off and on while you listen under the hood. If you can hear the thing clicking, that's probably not your problem. But again, if it's intermittent, you have to make sure you are checking when it is running crappy. If it's running and idling well, the solenoid HAS to be working, and you WILL be able to hear it click.

 

[lowtideride]

ok so maybe there is a pattern going on here...it either happens right at start up or soon there after( more latly)...and if i run it long enough it will go away but somtimes it will last like 20 mins...does that sound more like EGr or a loose connection????????? somtimes i think its a loose connection on a wire or a wire not/or grounding out...but then agian it could be the erg vavle sticking...because i slammed the hood reallly hard and it went away for a a scond then it came right back... so im back to square one...im gonna go out later tonight and start running thru all my wires and cleaning up conections.....

ANY ideas will help...thanks agian everyone
-al

 

[swank60]

I'll chime in and second 60wag - you need the book, but you need to check that all of your vac lines are hooked up to the right ports. That'll kill it every time. I went through and redid all of my vac lines and only about 5% of them were hooked up wrong, but that's really all it takes. the PO's mechanic hooked parts of the air injection system up to the EGR, the HAC was hooked up to it's self...thing is, one missplaced hose disables the whole system...and the thing is, it also misplaces another hose...which, if part of a different system disables that too - or has it working 1/3 or 1/2 the time.

Once you the book and start testing things you'll see that it's really pretty easy to deal with. It's not as cool as being able to tune a carb or tweak your timing to get things running just so...but it is a very important part of the system that keeps that old 2f going. (Plus, I'm not sure how many miles you've got on yours, but I'm bone stock and just turned over 205k - it's confusing, but they knew what they were doing when the put this stuff together - may as well keep it that way.)

 

[lowtideride]

ok ive got a new egr valve...is there any tips or tricks of taking it on or off...just looks like two bolts that are a lil hard to get too and that look like they need some pb blaster....

 

[jeffroid]

It's a tough job that requires patience. I hope you are sure that's what your problem is before you tackle it. The two bolts are the least of your troubles. Getting the flexible metal pipe out of the bottom of the EGR with the EGR cooler bolted on your engine is the hard part.

I used one of those "crows foot" adaptors designed for tubing fittings. I had to grind it a little bit to enlarge the opening enough to where it would slip in around the narrow part of the steel tube just adjacent to the fitting. Then I got a long extension to get up above everything and a breaker bar with a piece of pipe for a handle extension to break it free. One of those little universal joint socket adaptors on the end of the extension helps too. It's long and tedious to get it out, you have to slip the crows foot adaptor off and reposition it over and over to get it off, and you only get a few degrees of rotation each time.

Make sure you are turning it the right way. The threads in the fitting are looking up at you, so looking down on it, you have to turn it clockwise to loosen it.

 

[lowtideride]

funny story man...i ordered a check valve for my air witch i do need. and they messed up and sent me the egr for my 60..so i saved some money..and i might as welll put it on..im to stubborn to drive anything even when gas is 2.17 a gal..i want to drive it forever...im sure ill post up ranting and raving on my day off about how i cant get it off...thanks for the info..ill plan on some time under the hood...