Just curious, how much did you score the trailer for? I'm looking at a used Ruger trailer and similarly doing a slow (and cheap) build. While an Xventure, Turtleback, or Patriot are nice trailers they are super expensive and if I'm spending $20-$40k on a trailer I'd like to be able to sleep in it. I'm somehow worried that once I start adding mods, electrical, RTT, awning, drawers/slides that it will easily put me into the $10-$15k territory which at that point is very close to teardrop trailer prices. Ultimately I guess if I can't do it cheaply then I'd rather just jump into a teardrop trailer.
eatSleepWoof's '18 FSR trailer
- Thread starter eatSleepWoof
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- #42
Your train of thought makes total sense, and I'd also jump into an off-road teardrop if possible.
I would have liked a Ruger myself, but the options here in Canada are very, very limited, so I took what I could get. Paid $8k CAD, (about $6.1k USD right now) which is a pretty decent deal, especially considering the tent itself would run $2-2.5k CAD. This tent also seems to be no longer available, and I'm happy I have it, as it's the roomiest floor plan and the best option from FSR (for my needs).
The mods do add up real quick. So far I'm into (all prices CAD):
~$500 for spare wheel & tire
~$600 for custom aluminum work
~$200 for custom stainless work
~$180 for the basket
~$70 for tongue box
~$700 for the two front runner cross bars (getting these to Canada was stupidly expensive and not something I'd do again)
~$350 for electric drum brakes and wiring
~$25 for turnbuckles
~$40 for misc hardware
So nearly $2.7k CAD sunk into it already, not counting around ~$200 worth of hardware I already had on hand (80/20 materials, skateboard bearings, nuts/bolts/washers/etc).
For comparison, I could order a Smittybilt trailer kit for $10,273.99 CAD (plus taxes, possibly other costs). The Smitty comes with a lot more out of the box, and I think it's generally more useable, due to larger openings, pre-existing slides, already coming with the spare, tongue box, etc. But with the Smitty I'd lose the Timbren suspension, have to wait a few months (goodbye summer), and still have to buy a RTT on top of the price. Win some, lose some. If I were buying in mid winter, I'd probably have gone the Smitty route, but buying in the spring and having the FSR option in front of me, that was more appealing.
A parallel train of thought for those of us that don't have much trailer experience, plus add towing a trailer off road on top of that ..... pulling a trailer might not be what you expect or can handle, or enjoy. Tear drops are not cheap and most of the desirable ones have a waiting list with up to a year's wait. Main reason I went the route of spending 1/2 as much for a utility type. Also get a clearer idea of what you really want if and when you spring for a tear drop.
- Thread starter
- #44
Towing, even on FSRs, is definitely something that changes your camping "style," so to speak. This is the first time I've towed a trailer off-road (not that there was anything technical). Inability to turn around anywhere I wanted was definitely on my mind; it wasn't a problem, but it was something I kept thinking about.
Another thing to consider is how often do you leave your camp, and will you be okay leaving everything as is? The friends that camped with us wanted to go for a hike. I was very nervous leaving the trailer (& LX) unattended in camp, knowing full-well that it would take five minutes for someone to unhook the trailer from my LX and hook it to their own vehicle. With locks everywhere, that time might increase to fifteen minutes. We were gone (hiking) for five hours and I was on pins & needles the entire time, stressing out like you wouldn't believe. I don't think I'll be doing that again unless I take some drastic "security measures" like removing wheels, and spot-welding RTT hardware so it can't be removed without a grinder.
Another thing to consider is how often do you leave your camp, and will you be okay leaving everything as is? The friends that camped with us wanted to go for a hike. I was very nervous leaving the trailer (& LX) unattended in camp, knowing full-well that it would take five minutes for someone to unhook the trailer from my LX and hook it to their own vehicle. With locks everywhere, that time might increase to fifteen minutes. We were gone (hiking) for five hours and I was on pins & needles the entire time, stressing out like you wouldn't believe. I don't think I'll be doing that again unless I take some drastic "security measures" like removing wheels, and spot-welding RTT hardware so it can't be removed without a grinder.
ntsqd
technerd
Convert the tongue to one with a removable coupler. Can still be a ball coupler if you prefer, just attach it to a receiver hitch blank. That will make it much harder to take from somewhere remote. (Unless they normally steal stuff with a flatbed tow truck, and then nothing is going to stop that short of a 12 ga.)
My boss uses a long Kryptonite bicycle cable (say something like this: Cable Lock ) looped thru openings in both trailer wheels on the trailer that he leaves parked at work. Won't roll very far like that.
My boss uses a long Kryptonite bicycle cable (say something like this: Cable Lock ) looped thru openings in both trailer wheels on the trailer that he leaves parked at work. Won't roll very far like that.
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- #46
I've thought about doing something like that, yup. I think I do want a maxcoupler, so sometime in the future I'll look into doing both things at once.
And the cable lock won't hurt, either.
ntsqd
technerd
On the tear-drop front, why not build it? Have a look at the Tear-drops & tiny trailers forum, particularly here: Design Library and scroll down to "Design Resources"
What actually the PO did on mine, since the hitch is adjustable, is use a locking pin to hold the hitch in the desired length. Then when you want to discourage theft, remove the locking pin and remove hitch. Re-install just the locking pin in empty trailer receiver to stop anyone from using using the hitch. You can lock the hitch in a locked compartment, if desired. Pic of my hitch setup - you can see the locking hitch pin just in front of jack.
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- #49
Not an option for me at this time. No fabrication skills, resources, or time, really. But certainly a possibility for some other folks!
Great idea!
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- #50
Installed the Smittybilt jerry can holder last night.
Fits the Scepter well, but it's quite tight. If the can swells up, it'll be damn near impossible to get it out. The holder comes with rubbery "clips" on the metal frame, meant to prevent metal on metal rubbing, (if using a metal "nato" can) and I may remove these to get a little more wiggle room.
Fits the Scepter well, but it's quite tight. If the can swells up, it'll be damn near impossible to get it out. The holder comes with rubbery "clips" on the metal frame, meant to prevent metal on metal rubbing, (if using a metal "nato" can) and I may remove these to get a little more wiggle room.
- Thread starter
- #51
Small towing report on the trailer.
Road manners are phenomenal. Fully loaded as I've equipped it, I figure it's in the 1700lb range. I have no problems hauling ass through tight, twisty roads. While the LX's tires squeal, the trailer remains steady and planted. It handles so well that I probably wouldn't be going any faster without the trailer. The only times I really notice it is if I accelerate up steep hills.
Off-road it is just as good. Simply plows through everything, but remains steady. I've yet to find a shook-up beer in the cooler. I've had a few times when I had to back up around 100m through a trail, including a few ruts and turns, and even that is quite manageable.
The ball-coupler is definitely showing its limits, though. A proper, fully articulating coupler will be one of the next few purchases.
Road manners are phenomenal. Fully loaded as I've equipped it, I figure it's in the 1700lb range. I have no problems hauling ass through tight, twisty roads. While the LX's tires squeal, the trailer remains steady and planted. It handles so well that I probably wouldn't be going any faster without the trailer. The only times I really notice it is if I accelerate up steep hills.
Off-road it is just as good. Simply plows through everything, but remains steady. I've yet to find a shook-up beer in the cooler. I've had a few times when I had to back up around 100m through a trail, including a few ruts and turns, and even that is quite manageable.
The ball-coupler is definitely showing its limits, though. A proper, fully articulating coupler will be one of the next few purchases.
ntsqd
technerd
After years of poo-pooing them I recommend a pintle with a properly sized lunette ring. Properly sized means that the cross-sectional diameter of the ring is a minimal clearance fit in the closed pintle. Can't bang if it doesn't have enough room to really get moving inside the pintle's opening.
This one is way too small and likely makes noise:
This one doesn't make much noise:
Tongue weight makes a different too. the more, the better has been my experience (tempered by other towing concerns).
This one is way too small and likely makes noise:
This one doesn't make much noise:
Tongue weight makes a different too. the more, the better has been my experience (tempered by other towing concerns).
- Thread starter
- #53
After years of poo-pooing them I recommend a pintle with a properly sized lunette ring. Properly sized means that the cross-sectional diameter of the ring is a minimal clearance fit in the closed pintle. Can't bang if it doesn't have enough room to really get moving inside the pintle's opening.
This one is way too small and likely makes noise:
This one doesn't make much noise:
Tongue weight makes a different too. the more, the better has been my experience (tempered by other towing concerns).
Banging has always been my concern with pintle hitches. Having any room/play at all is almost like a psychological barrier for me; I just really like the idea of no movement at all. Will do some thinking!
Max coupler was highly recommended to me by an experienced trail leader over the Lock N Roll. It's sometimes referred to as the "silent hitch". I like it. Here's a link to the source. Pick which version you need for your tongue. I already had the 2" bar stock, so I went with the CUOR 210 and bolted it to the bar. But, I can weld it on any time I choose. For now it's fine with no sacrifice in strength, plus I can move it if I need to with no hassle.
ntsqd
technerd
I suspect that no matter how tight the fit of a lunette in a pintle that it will never be as quiet as something like the Max Coupler, but after trying out the combo in the lower pic I have yet to hear them.
I designed a coupler similar to the Max about 20 years ago, messed aorund with quite a few variations on that theme (1350 U-J based coupler anyone?) and in that process I found several things about the general concept that I did not like. It's really hard to do a good job with the 'wrist' rotation hardware. There's two basic approaches to the design (bushings about the shaft or thrust washers on the mating faces) and neither of them really looked to me like they would remain bind-free or have a long wear life-span.
Note in the lower pic of mine above how big those bronze thrust washers are. I forget the exact size of the plate, but I'll guess the size of the thrust washers is at least 3" OD, far more surface area than is possible within a 2" square tube. Once you abandon trying to stay within the 2" square tube things get a whole lot better.
I designed a coupler similar to the Max about 20 years ago, messed aorund with quite a few variations on that theme (1350 U-J based coupler anyone?) and in that process I found several things about the general concept that I did not like. It's really hard to do a good job with the 'wrist' rotation hardware. There's two basic approaches to the design (bushings about the shaft or thrust washers on the mating faces) and neither of them really looked to me like they would remain bind-free or have a long wear life-span.
Note in the lower pic of mine above how big those bronze thrust washers are. I forget the exact size of the plate, but I'll guess the size of the thrust washers is at least 3" OD, far more surface area than is possible within a 2" square tube. Once you abandon trying to stay within the 2" square tube things get a whole lot better.
The 3rd gen Max Coupler has zirc fitting on both sides of the hitch. So the left/right axis and the rotating axis are greasable. The up down axis relies on the pin that is used to secure the hitch and it's a very good idea to keep it and it's mating hole clean and lubed. (Crap, this is starting to sound like a sex ed class
)
ntsqd
technerd
Frequent greasing will be good for flushing out any grit which is good since grease tends to attract grit, but that's a mess that I had as a design criteria to avoid. The thrust washers in the pic above are painted so they don't show that they're oillite-bronze, no lubrication needed. The rest of a pintle-lunette coupler runs dry.
The basic problem was that I felt that there is lack of enough bearing area for however the 'wrist' joint is designed if you stay within a 2" square tube. You can have enough bearing area for the rotation and not have enough for the tensile load creating a high pressure, high wear thrust interface, or you have to step outside of the 2" square limitation.
The basic problem was that I felt that there is lack of enough bearing area for however the 'wrist' joint is designed if you stay within a 2" square tube. You can have enough bearing area for the rotation and not have enough for the tensile load creating a high pressure, high wear thrust interface, or you have to step outside of the 2" square limitation.
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- #58
Good feedback and food for thought all around; thanks guys.
I ended up ordering the bolt-on MaxCoupler (model 210). The decision boiled down to ease of install and availability.
It is surprisingly hard to find the coupler (lunette) part of the pintle hitch. The hitch part is commonly available everywhere, but the coupler is non-existent. That, coupled with the need for a very tight match in dimensions put me off it.
I also do not want to have a new receiver/sleeve built/welded on the existing tongue. That's downtime and money I don't want to waste. A bolt-on solution will also make it easy to take the coupler with me should I ever switch trailers.
Kakadu Camping has had the Max Couplers out of stock for a while, but as it happens they got new stock this very morning, so I jumped on it.
I also ordered the XO750 Offroad Trailer Jockey Wheel. I had seen photos of these before and was skeptical about needing one, but last weekend's camping suggested otherwise.
While trying to position the trailer perfectly level on a rough beach surface, (sand/rocks/pebbles) I disconnected the trailer and was maneuvering it into place by hand. The "regular" trailer jockey wheel promptly sunk into the sand and got stuck. Getting it out was a pain.
What really sold me is the video on the above page. Being able to winch the trailer, while it's on the jockey wheel, through mud and sand is a huge advantage. It's only a question of time before I find myself in a situation that requires this, and the regular wheel will absolutely break/bend.
Both items should be in my hands within the next week or so.
I ended up ordering the bolt-on MaxCoupler (model 210). The decision boiled down to ease of install and availability.
It is surprisingly hard to find the coupler (lunette) part of the pintle hitch. The hitch part is commonly available everywhere, but the coupler is non-existent. That, coupled with the need for a very tight match in dimensions put me off it.
I also do not want to have a new receiver/sleeve built/welded on the existing tongue. That's downtime and money I don't want to waste. A bolt-on solution will also make it easy to take the coupler with me should I ever switch trailers.
Kakadu Camping has had the Max Couplers out of stock for a while, but as it happens they got new stock this very morning, so I jumped on it.
I also ordered the XO750 Offroad Trailer Jockey Wheel. I had seen photos of these before and was skeptical about needing one, but last weekend's camping suggested otherwise.
While trying to position the trailer perfectly level on a rough beach surface, (sand/rocks/pebbles) I disconnected the trailer and was maneuvering it into place by hand. The "regular" trailer jockey wheel promptly sunk into the sand and got stuck. Getting it out was a pain.
What really sold me is the video on the above page. Being able to winch the trailer, while it's on the jockey wheel, through mud and sand is a huge advantage. It's only a question of time before I find myself in a situation that requires this, and the regular wheel will absolutely break/bend.
Both items should be in my hands within the next week or so.
That's impressive. You're right, the video is very compelling....just might need one of those, too! Thanks for posting!
I watched the video again and went to the website called out in the video arkportablepower.com, but they said they were out of stock. Looked a little closer and it was only the "Black Edition" that was "sold out". If you go to the 2nd page, there's the regular for $20 cheaper. There's some lighter duty models available too, that are cheaper. So I got one of the regular XO750s coming, too. The one listed on your website is $375....is that Canada price? I paid $279 and shipping was free.
