E15 Fuel Waiver announced - diluted gas/possible lower octane/extends "winter blend"

[AZLX570]

TLDR - it's looking like the winter blend will be extended to year round:

Article HERE.

"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said Wednesday that it would temporarily allow widespread sales of a higher ethanol gas blend in a move that they hope will tamp down consumer prices that have soared since the Iran war began."

With the always spicy debate on whether to run Regular (87) or Premium (91+) in the LX570, was wondering if anyone has additional thoughts on this? Will it affect what you put in your 200 series?

 

[kcjaz]

Nope. It’s E0 for me.

 

[gaijin]

TLDR - it's looking like the winter blend will be extended to year round:

Article HERE.

"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said Wednesday that it would temporarily allow widespread sales of a higher ethanol gas blend in a move that they hope will tamp down consumer prices that have soared since the Iran war began."

With the always spicy debate on whether to run Regular (87) or Premium (91+) in the LX570, was wondering if anyone has additional thoughts on this? Will it affect what you put in your 200 series?

My Owner's Manual says to definitely not use anything over E10...

So... No E15 for me!

HTH

 

[dudemancool1904]

this is a whole load of nothing. California passed 15 last year and literally no stations carry it. It would require reformulations at the refinery level as well as changes at the dispenser. Only 3000 gas stations in the country carry it and it’s mostly in the corn belt.

 

[slipkid13]

By the time winter rolls around no one will be able to afford gas so it won't really matter...

 

[AZLX570]

this is a whole load of nothing. California passed 15 last year and literally no stations carry it. It would require reformulations at the refinery level as well as changes at the dispenser. Only 3000 gas stations in the country carry it and it’s mostly in the corn belt.

Yeah, I'm interested to see who will actually offer the lower octane/blend based on this new rule/if it gets extended. Hopefully not Costco as that is where I get my gas pretty much anytime I fill up even when I'm traveling (I'll find a Costco if somewhat on the way).

 

[doru]

That's dangerous gas for motorcycles. AMA has been fighting this kind of s*** for years.
Car engines are not immune either.
For sure it will not fail right away, but run that crap long enough and you'll have issues.

Me... I I'll just run Costco premium stuff.

Next time gov goes to war they might want to have a plan, before doing so. A bunch of diletants.

 

[Supra Turbo]

Not E15, but we've been running E85 in some of our vehicles since late 2000s without issues

 

[scottryana]

Not E15, but we've been running E85 in some of our vehicles since late 2000s without issues

E85 vehicles are built with that in mid with larger fuel pumps, injectors, different injector pulse widths, etc. Cars that have an ethanol content sensor and the right fueling maps can go from E0 to E99, but vehicles that were never meant to run high ethanol fuel can certainly not be able to supply the fuel volume necessary. I am not saying the 200 can't as I have no first hand knowledge running it on ethanol fuel but I can tell you that for the same amount of energy -

"Ethanol has about 30% less energy per unit volume than pure gasoline. For E85, you may need approximately 25% to 30% more volume for the same mileage."

Using E15 fuel will reduce fuel MPG by ~4%, this is a shell game, in my opinion will the fuel cost go down by 4%?

I can also tell you something that you probably already know but E85-E99 is amazing in a turbo car that is tuned for it!! The extra fuel volume cools the cylinders and produces more gas volume to spool the turbo and the extra octane allows a lot more timing.

 

[Supra Turbo]

E85 vehicles are built with that in mid with larger fuel pumps, injectors, different injector pulse widths, etc. Cars that have an ethanol content sensor and the right fueling maps can go from E0 to E99, but vehicles that were never meant to run high ethanol fuel can certainly not be able to supply the fuel volume necessary. I am not saying the 200 can't as I have no first hand knowledge running it on ethanol fuel but I can tell you that for the same amount of energy -

"Ethanol has about 30% less energy per unit volume than pure gasoline. For E85, you may need approximately 25% to 30% more volume for the same mileage."

Using E15 fuel will reduce fuel MPG by ~4%, this is a shell game, in my opinion will the fuel cost go down by 4%?

I can also tell you something that you probably already know but E85-E99 is amazing in a turbo car that is tuned for it!! The extra fuel volume cools the cylinders and produces more gas volume to spool the turbo and the extra octane allows a lot more timing.

Yes of course proper supporting fuel system is needed that won't only provide the fueling needs but also be E85 rated with ptfe lines, etc..

With proper setup (whether it is from the OEM or modified) and maintenance, it has been a non-issue in our case, referring to the post prior.

And yes indeed it is.. its nice to be able to make 1200-1400hp out of 3 liters on pump gas

Could not find photos of my other white car on this phone, but similar setup with a slightly larger 76mm snail.

 

[scottryana]

Yes of course proper supporting fuel system is needed that won't only provide the fueling needs but also be E85 rated with ptfe lines, etc..

With proper setup (whether it is from the OEM or modified) and maintenance, it has been a non-issue in our case, referring to the post prior.

And yes indeed it is.. its nice to be able to make 1200-1400hp out of 3 liters on pump gas

View attachment 4111002

Could not find photos of my other white car on this phone, but similar setup with a slightly larger 76mm snail.

Yes PTFE lines.... which these trucks don't have. Again I am not saying the 200 will have any issue with E15, but it was not in the design spec for sure. And ethanol degrades fuel lines, etc I have also had trouble with it collecting water in my GTR and having issues with the injectors as ethanol is highly hygroscopic. Not a problem if you drive frequently but an issue if they sit for long periods.

 

[Supra Turbo]

Yes PTFE lines.... which these trucks don't have. Again I am not saying the 200 will have any issue with E15, but it was not in the design spec for sure. And ethanol degrades fuel lines, etc I have also had trouble with it collecting water in my GTR and having issues with the injectors as ethanol is highly hygroscopic. Not a problem if you drive frequently but an issue if they sit for long periods.

I was not talking about "these trucks", but "some of our vehicles". Nor did I say that these trucks have ptfe lines, but I did state that with "proper setup (whether it is from the OEM or modified) and maintained" I have not seen any issues. Which implies and of course includes proper use intervals to avoid hydroscopic issues you are describing. Detail is all in the wording

 

[scottryana]

I was not talking about "these trucks", but "some of our vehicles". Nor did I say that these trucks have ptfe lines, but I did state that with "proper setup (whether it is from the OEM or modified) and maintained" I have not seen any issues. Which implies and of course includes proper use intervals to avoid hydroscopic issues you are describing. Detail is all in the wording

Yes it is and my wording is that E15 has no business in the 200 series and that E15 does no good and only harm in this platform including lowering mileage and range. So if the EPA does push this around as some type of benefit to the consumer I would avoid it.

 

[Supra Turbo]

Yes it is and my wording is that E15 has no business in the 200 series and that E15 does no good and only harm in this platform including lowering mileage and range. So if the EPA does push this around as some type of benefit to the consumer I would avoid it.

Then Im confused why you're responding to my post, I wasn't even talking about E15

 

[stonepa]

this is a whole load of nothing. California passed 15 last year and literally no stations carry it. It would require reformulations at the refinery level as well as changes at the dispenser. Only 3000 gas stations in the country carry it and it’s mostly in the corn belt.

Based on what I have seen in central and southern Arizona, a great many, if not most, gas stations carry E15. Usually 10-20 cents cheaper than E10.