DT long tube headers

[Willy beamin]

looking for some feedback on DT long tube headers. I have a set collecting dust and on the fence about installing them or not. My truck is NA and will not be receiving any forced induction.
Are any potential gains worth dealing with codes or other unforeseen problematic issue?
Thanks

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Nope.

I’ve done that, and removed them motors than I should of. Long story short, all you’ll notice is a lot more sound, and the fresh* smell of dinosaur while off-roading and stopped at red lights.

*it will actually gag you as the loss of catalytic converters is an instant recognition that you hate clean air and love breathing in cancer.

To further illustrate, @RS6tofj80 had a full exhaust replacement, and when dyno’d, the truck made no improvement in power. In fact my bone stock setup makes (slightly) more power on a dyno.

You’re not introducing more air and fuel into the motor, so the current amount of detonated fuel can get out just fine.

 

[NYC570]

I'm surprised that the 5.7 doesn't gain anything from removing the cats. Most engines gain a noticeable amount of power. The isf for example, gains about 50hp when all cats are removed.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I'm surprised that the 5.7 doesn't gain anything from removing the cats. Most engines gain a noticeable amount of power. The isf for example, gains about 50hp when all cats are removed.

50hp... a 16% power increase from a high flow cat removal? That's quite amazing, not calling BS, but I'd need to see dyno proof to believe it.

I have found that most modern truck engines I play with don't make much power from the cats removed. Lots of people say they "feel" power, but the proof is usually never there. Lets look at that IS F, the best dyno I've found is a 30 hp increase with full exhaust, and that's only after 3700 rpm. So unless you are at WOT, which who drives always at WOT? Then the normal driving where the trans shifts just at that point, you'll rarely actually see that increase. But that's besides the point, modern catalytic converts are pretty efficient, and keep getting better. And not to get all hippy on everyone, are crucial to not make the earth suck. I mean, just wheel a truck in low range, with the windows down and no cats. It sucks.

Now I've gained 50 hp from a similar engine, but on top of completely opening up the exhaust, I removed the ECM and replaced it with my own, tuned it myself, replaced the exhaust cam gears to keep the valves open an additional 3 degrees, lowered the cooling operating temperate 10 degrees which allowed my advance timing, and a few other things. I guess what I'm trying to say is, some dropped cats and are just a part or the equation.

 

[I Eat Glue]

I recall seeing some from CL, but I only gained about 30ish whp when I did EL long tube headers and exhaust. Most people in those cars drive in manual shift so it's not hard to stay above 3.5k. Plus with the stock intake that's when the secondary intake opened and it's glorious. In the LC I wouldn't bother. The isf runs slightly rich stock and was still fine after mods without a tune.

 

[HRTROB]

I've never met anyone who put on catless headers then regretted it after. I say do it.

 

[NYC570]

50hp... a 16% power increase from a high flow cat removal? That's quite amazing, not calling BS, but I'd need to see dyno proof to believe it.

I have found that most modern truck engines I play with don't make much power from the cats removed. Lots of people say they "feel" power, but the proof is usually never there. Lets look at that IS F, the best dyno I've found is a 30 hp increase with full exhaust, and that's only after 3700 rpm. So unless you are at WOT, which who drives always at WOT? Then the normal driving where the trans shifts just at that point, you'll rarely actually see that increase. But that's besides the point, modern catalytic converts are pretty efficient, and keep getting better. And not to get all hippy on everyone, are crucial to not make the earth suck. I mean, just wheel a truck in low range, with the windows down and no cats. It sucks.

Now I've gained 50 hp from a similar engine, but on top of completely opening up the exhaust, I removed the ECM and replaced it with my own, tuned it myself, replaced the exhaust cam gears to keep the valves open an additional 3 degrees, lowered the cooling operating temperate 10 degrees which allowed my advance timing, and a few other things. I guess what I'm trying to say is, some dropped cats and are just a part or the equation.

There are threads on club Lexus with dyno proven results. The isf dynos around 350whp stock and a bit over 400whp with a full exhaust without cats. It also traps around 110 and 113 mph with high 12s ETs stock. With a full exhaust it traps between 116 to 119mph and low 12s ETs. Now if you add the rrracing tuned intake you gain a bit more. Some guys have dynoed 430whp FBO and tuned. There are YouTube videos of stock ISFs racing FBO ISFs to see the difference.

The ISFs stock exhaust is very restrictive. Mine is FBO tuned and the difference is noticeable. The RCF also gains power from FBOs, not as much as the ISF but still a noticeable amount.

 

[odinskind]

So do these bolt directly to the stock exhaust? Can I buy some DT long tube headers and install them myselft without having to modify the stock exhaust?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

There are threads on club Lexus with dyno proven results. The isf dynos around 350whp stock and a bit over 400whp with a full exhaust without cats. It also traps around 110 and 113 mph with high 12s ETs stock. With a full exhaust it traps between 116 to 119mph and low 12s ETs. Now if you add the rrracing tuned intake you gain a bit more. Some guys have dynoed 430whp FBO and tuned. There are YouTube videos of stock ISFs racing FBO ISFs to see the difference.

The ISFs stock exhaust is very restrictive. Mine is FBO tuned and the difference is noticeable. The RCF also gains power from FBOs, not as much as the ISF but still a noticeable amount.

My mistake, I was looking at an IS F sport? Guess that is something different with a V6. So cool, my apologies. Like I said in my earlier post, I haven’t seen much amazing improvements with truck engines. I don’t do anything with modern cars, so maybe small engine bays make bad exhaust systems?

Either way, for the 5.7, it doesn’t do much.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

So do these bolt directly to the stock exhaust? Can I buy some DT long tube headers and install them myselft without having to modify the stock exhaust?

You simply unboltand replace your stock headers with welded on cats with these headers that have no cats. While both headers are off the truck, switch your air/fuel sensor over.

After that, you need to figure out how to fool the computer to make it think everything is right. Without that, you’ll never not have a CEL.

 

[tominboise]

I guess one question I have is, coming from a S/C 80 series, the 5.7 in the 200 series is night and day power wise. Not sure what problem is being solved by adding headers and open exhaust, for a truck to be driven on the road. Racing - sure. Bring on the power, noise, tuning, headaches. For daily use, not for me.

I understand some men's need to forever tinker with their rigs. When I was growing up, installing headers and dual exhaust was standard practice (this was before cat's came along). Along with Holley double pumpers and shift kits.

For the last 10 years or so, I find myself putting rig I buy used back to stock configuration. Must be getting old.

 

[Willy beamin]

Actually there's clamps no welding needed. DT quoted saying the low end torque kicks in around 1500 rmps with the DTs and stays strong throughout the power band. DT tech department I spoke with claims what you are supposed to notice is more grunt torque earlier in the pedal.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Actually there's clamps no welding needed. DT quoted saying the loe end torque kicks in around 1500 rmps with the DTs and stays strong throughout the power band. So to say what you are supposed to notice is more grunt torque earlier in the pedal.

I just don’t believe that. Does DT provide dyno numbers? Honest question.

 

[Willy beamin]

I just don’t believe that. Does DT provide dyno numbers? Honest question.

HA - I wish, If they did these headers would already be bolted onto my truck
here's the link for product info - 2007-2016 Toyota Land Cruiser 200-Series 5.7L Long Tube Tri-Y Headers

DT should / needs to have dyno info posted, really its a bunch of BS that they don't. My industry you have to have everything third party certified and readily available docs to support.

 

[RS6tofj80]

As the former owner of said DT header and the truck with the Kooks setup I can say headers don't come without the chance of either install or sensors complications..... I've finally sorted out the codes that were thrown by loosing the secondaries with a SAIS kit from Hewitt... and respectfully, while the dyno numbers were not great - the peddle feel and response are tangible, and then there's the sound.......

My dyno day was at 96degrees after driving the truck 3 hours back from Dallas and it was certainly the first time they'd ever run such a thing on their 4wd dyno, so it was hard getting it calibrated and good pulls - we in fact broke straps twice, which was farily exciting and created additional chaos.... the car prior was a Lambo with turbo's -the car after a tuned S4...both ran conservative #'s but had the luxury of before/ after # for comparison. Something that Kooks wasn't able to do, as there wasn't a 4wd Dyno nearby that they had access to.

I've built myriad trucks and cars - in fact working on ARH LTH's and tons of other things for the C63 now .... my goal wasn't sheer HP for the LC but more torque and soul - to that end the goal was accomplished, it's a very unique growling sound and along with the exhaust added to my daily enjoyment and added a decent amount of power that's useful.

I do believe the DT's are bolt up - in my several conversations with URD that was what they said. I do think there is a decent risk of codes being thrown....

cheers

E

 

[odinskind]

I have the same SAIS kit. Just haven't installed it yet. I mostly get my fuel at the embassy. And it is supposed to be unleaded but I'd not be surprised if it is more like "unleaded". I've heard leaded fuel can ruin your catalytic converters. So I'd like to swap the headers out to save my cats if I can. That way I don't have to replace the cats in the future. Also, I like the sound

 

[Willy beamin]

to further this conversation my local Toyota dealer lead tech, who is an offroad enthusiast, and a straight shooter said he would not feel confident installing the headers on my truck. His reasoning is basically what the SAIS system says it has the cure for. I get the caution part, I get that these are not easy to get to and take on and off. what is holding me back is I have no first hand experience with this particular scenario of risk vs reward. @RS6tofj80 - when you sent me these headers there was a module included, is that the said SAIS system?

 

[RS6tofj80]

The module included from URD is to match the expected resistance for the secondary sensors I believe....

the hewitt kit I have is this:

2008 - 2012 Plug & Play Bypass Kit w/ PRP

What did your tech quote you for time to install ? BTW if you do install Onur suggested the lexus gaskets as being more durable...

E

 

[TonyP]

That's the AIP bypass and pump pack for one pump, the 200 has two pumps. I don't think you'll need two pump packs though. This makes the pump driver think the Secondary air injection pump is operational. I don't think you'lll need the pump packs at all actually if they're in good shape, but you can check with Paul at Hewitt. The one with the plugs makes the AIP never kick on. I assume that's all you'd need with the blockoff plates since the headers don't have the exhaust provisions for the AIP.

This is the kit I have after my AIP took a dump.