Driving Tips for the FJ80 in Snow

[GmonkeyMan]

Slow down. She's not an Audi.
Best thing is to drive slow, dedicated winter tires, studded.
Next is to drive slow and at least have your tires siped. A winter area tire shop can do it.
If you don't drive slow, don't have winter tires and don't have your tires siped or studded------ make sure you pay your insurance premiums.
And to the rest of us that are equipped, experienced and responsible, ------ pay your uninsured motorist insurance premiums too. People that are ignorant enough to drive too fast on icy roads with the wrong tires are also much less likely to be smart enough to remember to get or keep up their insurance. And put your family in a land tank. Beer guzzling ice racers in rusty F-250's can make a heck of a mess of a Civic, or Corolla. I've seen those messes. There is a reason why firefighters usually put their wife and kids in big-ass trucks.

 

[LINUS]

I'll add a vote for the 80 being a neutral handler until you stab the brakes, but even then the oversteer seems predictable.

I have taken my 80 to ski resorts / snow environment something like an easy 150 days in some 13 yrs owning, near all while wearing Goodyear MT / MTr's. That said, my next set of tires will be Duratracs (severe rated, and I boat more than I dirt trail anymore).

I keep a set of skidder-style chains (criss-crossing chains, bull ring intersection) on board in case it gets deep (used 3 times) - mud tires really aren't grippy compared to dedicated tires, so keeping mindful of your inertia on whatever your specific type of slippery surface will keep you out of unplanned slow speed "pucker moments".

I love the AWD, letting it do all the work & not locking any diffs - I haven't even found a need to hit the CDL, if there is one I haven't seen it.

I don't like BFG's for the fact the rubber compound is / was hard - anyone who has experienced the rain of the Olympic penn. (and the tire ruts of HWY101) can tell you they are great for you guys down in the sun belt, not so much up here - at least the old gen AT/MT's were that way, IDK about now - Goodyear runs softer rubber so they been on my 80.

Sorry no new revelations, big thing is remember your inertia so you don't need to experience the oversteer of braking, seems to work up here.

We all build these out to some ~3+ ton rigs, that's alot of weight to brake/turn/accelerate without dedicated, intentional snow tires.

 

[vladi80]

Tires ,tires and more tires. My 80 on 35'S BFG AT plows through snow and ice just as good as my wife's wrx with blizzaks. One thing for sure, I stay under 40mph on the white stuff.

 

[80t0ylc]

Just because you're in a rig, even an 80, doesn't mean the laws of physics can be ignored. What do you do when you're hoofin' it in snow or ice? You walk slower, watch out for bumps and you don't make any sudden moves - or you end up on your butt, right? (My sympathies for the sunbelt crowd)

A little common sense goes a long way. CDL locked and/or locker use only helps get you going from a dead stop, if needed. Once you have momentum and can maintain it, they're not needed and can actually cause control problems due to their mission to keep opposite wheels or drive shafts turning at the same speed. Remember the (open) differential's purpose? Right, allow difference in speed between axles or drive shafts. When you're turning, even on ice or snow, your tires on opposite sides and ends of rig turn still need to turn at different speeds. And they will only give you control or traction if they are rolling as your rig's speed and path demands. Same concept as ABS brakes - if your tires lock up or are skidding, you can't steer or stop.

So, IMHO tires are extremely important for slippery conditions. A driver experienced in snow and ice driving can get by with poor tires, but is still severely handicapped and should have the sense to fix the tire issue asap. Dedicated snow tires will give the best performance, but are seasonal and should be swapped off during warmer weather. It's up to you how you compromise on tires and IMHO is probably the most controversial part of what tires you run. Most of the previous advice is for paved road running, but our 80's do more than that, right? So the off road requirements will need to be considered in the choice of tire. But, this is a thread about driving tips, not tires. All I can say is do your research and choose wisely...

 

[120mm]

Since everyone is piling on, and I'm from Iowa, tires and driving skill are the answer.

One thing, old tires suck on ice and snow. Last winter I rediscovered this the hard way when I brought my Land Cruiser from Arizona to Iowa with old all weather tires.

I grew up driving rear wheel drive pickups and Mustangs in the snow and ice, so am confident in my winter driving skills. However, thin tread old dried out Arizona tires on my LC were a nightmare on snow and ice covered streets. Toboggan-city.

I put on some General AT^2s before coming to the mountains of Bavaria primarily because of the positive reviews in snow and ice I've read. It's supposed to be a great snow/ice tire with good off road characteristics, so I can avoid buying two sets of tires.

 

[airsix]

Something that hasn't been mentioned that I feel needs addressed...

In off-road communities we tend to treat suspension spring-rates like a restaurant combo-menu. We pick springs based on clearance, travel, and load-capacity with little to no regard for how they will impact weight-transfer and high-speed handling characteristics. If you've spent any time in motorsport racing you know that even slight changes in spring rate at either or both ends of the vehicle can dramatically change handling characteristics.

It seems common for our community to significantly increase the spring rate at the rear in order to increase load-carrying capacity. This doesn't change the static weight distribution, but when in motion the result is reduced weight transfer to the rear under acceleration and increased weight transfer to the front under braking. This all adds up to increased front-wheel traction and reduced rear-wheel traction, and a tendency toward oversteer. The problem is most exaggerated when a stiffly-sprung rig is not carrying a load.

If your vehicle is oversteering when at the limits of traction there are a few ways to address the problem, none of which any of us are probably too excited to implement. Softer rear springs. Stiffer front springs. Softer rear sway-bar. Stiffer front sway-bar. More tire in the rear. Less tire in the front. And so on. You can try to tune it out with shocks but that's not effective when spring rates are the root of the problem.

IMHO the bottom line for rigs with modified suspension is
1) Live with the oversteer and be careful
2) Use rear springs that are soft enough to not induce oversteer when the rig is empty, and air-bag it for use with heavy loads.

 

[Heckraiser]

Real snow tires and intelligent driving will cure 100% of winter handling problems. Doesn't matter if it's an 80, an Audi, a Subaru, a civic or a corvette, real snow tires will make any car manageable in the snow. I grew up driving a supra turbo year round, my other "beginner car" was an olds 403ci 4bbl burnout machine. Both were fine with the right technique, no weather related incidents until a freak accident in my 30's.

Can't cure the rest of the idiots out there, but that's really the best you can do.

 

[nemoblackdog]

Tires - tires - TIRES!

Anybody who says BFG ATs (siped or not siped) are comparable to dedicated snow tires is simply mistaken. I have both - there is NO remote comparison between the two - especially on anything that is at least somewhat packed or icy. Deep soft snow - if you're lucky enough to have it - should be a secondary concern. I live in Colorado with more soft, deep stuff than most places, and that doesn't bother me. Packed, polished and slick is where the real danger is, and this is where dedicated snow tires make a huge difference. I can, and have, driven my BFT ATs in a real before/after test against my snows in the same conditions (easy with a garage, air tools, and the separate set of snows mounted on their own wheels) and this difference is dramatic.

If you care about this - get some dedicated purpose-built snow tires. And drive more slowly. And give more room. And...

 

[danthman114]

chains? they work in the sierras and don't see why they wouldn't work where you are...

 

[Brentbba]

Unusual for a SoCal owner to chime in here, but I grew up driving icy roads in middle Illinois and had my share of fun skidding around corners, etc. back then. First experience with the 80 was up in Breckenridge in the mid-90's. First 4wd I'd ever owned. We literally had 7 feet of snow the week we were there. Took the 80 out to the grocery store w/o anyone else in the truck to 'play' with her and see what she'd do on snow packed roads. Truck was completely stock back then with Michelin LTX tires that had come on the truck. I could not get the back end to spin out on me at all. I contributed that to the 4WD and weight of the truck. I wanted to learn how she'd act without wife and kids with me. Two other occasions with the same set up on I-80 up toward Tahoe in heavy snow storms. Heavy enough to shut down the freeway both times after I'd passed the chain checkpoint (carrying chains). Yes, California does shut down things sooner than most snow states, because the idiots out here don't slow down, but this was in the high Sierras. On neither occasion did I have one issue with the 80. For me it was all about safe speed, both up and down the mountains. I understand all the tire comments as we used them in Illinois as well on sedans.

 

[GmonkeyMan]

Me again. Now I have a question...
I just today got a new set of tires. Bfg all terain t/a KO2. 315's, (woo hoo! ).
I asked the Dude at the shop if they did siping there. He said "nope. Most shops don't do that anymore. And you won't need it because your tires are already siped. They have the snowflake on the sidewall and are already winter rated. ". That's what the guy said.
How much crack is he on? Really. Already siped? Winter rated? Is this true? I'm from the mountains in AZ. I've played in the snow plenty but never lived in the snow. It's my first winter in the pacific NW. Advice? Stud them between December and March?
Thx.

 

[JCruse]

This issue interested me because in both heavy rain and snow I've been impressed by the 80's fairly even 4 wheel drift. I guess the back breaks loose a little more but for the most part I've had all 4 come loose together rather than the tail coming around. It's not very controllable mind you, but hey it is a truck!

The rig came with very well worn Michelin LTX's and since then it rides on Firestone Destination A/T's. Good on sand, good on snow.

 

[120mm]

Me again. Now I have a question...
I just today got a new set of tires. Bfg all terain t/a KO2. 315's, (woo hoo! ).
I asked the Dude at the shop if they did siping there. He said "nope. Most shops don't do that anymore. And you won't need it because your tires are already siped. They have the snowflake on the sidewall and are already winter rated. ". That's what the guy said.
How much crack is he on? Really. Already siped? Winter rated? Is this true? I'm from the mountains in AZ. I've played in the snow plenty but never lived in the snow. It's my first winter in the pacific NW. Advice? Stud them between December and March?
Thx.

The new KO^2s are supposed to be already siped. I have no direct experience with them, though.

Are studs legal where you are?

 

[SARguy]

Are you asking about off road in the snow, or paved streets in the snow.. Obviously off road, having a good aggressive tread with narrow tires beating wide ones. If you are talking driving the family to a ski resort, or using an 80 as a DD in snowy weather, and if you have ABS you will find in the owners manual, a warning concerning how the ABS does not work reliably on icy roads. I FOUND THIS TO BE A GROSS UNDERSTATEMENT just after purchasing my second 80..a 93 which was the first year that had ABS.
One night heading home in a blizzard after a day of skiing. I was going down canyon just below Sundance resort in Utah and came upon stopped traffic from multiple fender benders. I was going 10 mph on new BFG KO's. I gently touched my brakes, way in advance, and my ABS totally over rode my braking input. Had I not gone to the left shoulder and used the pile of plowed snow on the left side to slow me down, I would have plowed in to the stopped traffic. I live in the mountains so next day I played on the freshly plowed roads that were still snowpacked. 10 mph on level roads and I could not stop for intersections.. I would just blow through as my ABS pulsed in resistance to my stopping input. Tires and brakes would have been just fine at 50mph but not with the ABS. Temp fix was to pull the fuse which just give normal braking. Later I cut in to the wiring coming from one of the ABS sensors and installed a cutoff switch and indicator light under the dash where I can disable the ABS without getting under the hood. The reason I used the wiring from the sensor instead of interrupting the power to the ABS fuse is that the amps from the fuse were so high it melted the insulation on the 16 guage wire so I used the sensor input which when interrupted show a "fault" and the computer turns the ABS off. My current two 80s... one LC.. one LX450 are both modified to over-ride the ABS. More modern vehicles have learned how to deal with snow and ABS.

 

[Heckraiser]

Me again. Now I have a question...
I just today got a new set of tires. Bfg all terain t/a KO2. 315's, (woo hoo! ).
I asked the Dude at the shop if they did siping there. He said "nope. Most shops don't do that anymore. And you won't need it because your tires are already siped. They have the snowflake on the sidewall and are already winter rated. ". That's what the guy said.
How much crack is he on? Really. Already siped? Winter rated? Is this true? I'm from the mountains in AZ. I've played in the snow plenty but never lived in the snow. It's my first winter in the pacific NW. Advice? Stud them between December and March?
Thx.

Technically any tire that has narrow little grooves in the tread has "sipes." About 80% of the tires on the road fall into this category. So technically, he's correct. Having sipes does not make it a snow tire. And just because it has sipes does not mean it cannot or should not receive more sipes .

The snowflake symbol does actually mean that the DOT deemed that particular tire acceptable for snow duty. The mountain/snowflake symbol is typically given to AT tires with good snow characteristics (KO2, Duratrac, GrabberAT2, etc). That does not mean they are as good as a dedicated snow tire, but it does mean they should do pretty decent.

Those little lines going across the tread blocks are factory sipes.

 

[JeepinPete]

On stock size michelin LTX tires last winter, mine drove like a tank through the snow. We usually get heavy wet snow, so that will make a difference. On unplowed roads, I found 3x locking it up gave the best feel. Had to get use to more steering input to turn, but it tracked like it was on rails. I suspect my new tires will not do nearly as well this winter.

 

[Heckraiser]

Michelin LTX are pretty damn close to a snow tire in terms of tread design, just a more all-season compound so they don't wear out as fast. But they are pretty good in the snow, no doubt!

 

[LINUS]

Me again. Now I have a question...
I just today got a new set of tires. Bfg all terain t/a KO2. 315's, (woo hoo! ).
I asked the Dude at the shop if they did siping there. He said "nope. Most shops don't do that anymore. And you won't need it because your tires are already siped. They have the snowflake on the sidewall and are already winter rated. ". That's what the guy said.
How much crack is he on? Really. Already siped? Winter rated? Is this true? I'm from the mountains in AZ. I've played in the snow plenty but never lived in the snow. It's my first winter in the pacific NW. Advice? Stud them between December and March?
Thx.

Siping is now become a way to get that "last little bit" from a set of tires to get you till you can float a new set, at least that seems the local mentality.

Also, depending where you're landing - we're really not a place where you'll see standing snow at most lower elevations. The local ski areas had a record crap season this last 14-15 season, Mount Baker in particular.
I like snow, but this warm streak we are enjoying is a nice novelty. Just having AWD & a fresh set of shoes means you're in the 80th percentile for us in the lowlands!

 

[Death Star]

How aggressively are you trying to drive in the snow?? I live in CT and we got a TON of snow last year. I never had an issue. I have a 30 minute commute, often during snow storms last year. I never felt that the truck was going to step out of line. Remember, it's a 5000 pound truck, and you still have to abide by the laws of physics.

 

[Iceaxe]

When you are coming down a mountain pass with hairpin turns, it isn't so much speed as it is the momentum. Either way, going low / slow is certainly the best option.... The truck's mass is what it is....