Driving Tips for the FJ80 in Snow
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I have a 91 FJ80 with no ABS, I have never owned a car without ABS. It hasnt really snowed in Portland, Oregon but any tips for me on what to expect or what not? I will not stomp on my brakes and find out the results in a car without ABS lol. Some tips would be awesome, thank you in advance
Google threshold braking. Practice in a parking lot.
I have 33 Nitto Terra Grapplers. I had a bunch of trouble in powered snow. I was unlocked and everytime I hit deep power my rig would slide and get stuck. I had to winch out numerous times.
In packed snow and icy conditions it drives good and is predictable.
I don't get what I'm doing wrong. Maybe my tires?
In packed snow and icy conditions it drives good and is predictable.
I don't get what I'm doing wrong. Maybe my tires?
I think it's notable that you were coming down the mountain.
It's important to realize that a 45° turn on a decent will require significantly lower speeds than a 45° turn on level ground. Not only does the angle of the corner try to push you away from the road, but the angle of the decent tries to push you off of the road. Also many people realize that they are going too fast too late and when they finally try to slow down especially in a downhill corner it can be a worst case scenario since the rear axle will have significantly less traction while going down hill which increases as the grade increases.
Also, I'm not sure how the lsvp, and 4x4 will effect braking but generally the front tires receive about 70% of the stopping power which in a low traction situation can allow the rear wheels to rotate at a higher rate of speed than the front which promotes spinning out.
Hope that others can interpret my mumblings.
I know you don't want to hear this but the problem is your tires. On compact snow and ice, you need proper snow tires. I know more expense but ay cheaper than a fender bender.
Check out some Blizzaks etc....
Offroad tires might work well in deep soft snow but once it's packed or icy, they are too hard to grip
Threshold braking for sure!
ABS is great for those that don't pay attention (almost everybody) and good for computer controlled traction, but if you know what you are doing, not having ABS is better!
Up here folks are often required to take winter driving courses, especially those of us that drive backcountry roads as part of our regular jobs. I have to take one every few years, and the last I took was with Allen Berg Racing at their Calgary track. http://www.allenbergracingschools.com/programs/driver_safety/winter_driving/
Best course to date, even better than bombing across the frozen prairie in an Iltis with the Canadian Forces.
Take a course and like mentioned, practice!
(Truly experience aside, you truck only touches the ground in 4 places... those 4 rubber spots need to be suited for the conditions, or you will end up with other spots on the ground!)
The first thing I do when the snow hits in my area is hit the CDL button while driving. ( I'm running Bridgestone Revo's. )
I've read where it's better to leave everything unlocked while driving till you need it, but driving straight at 30- 40 mph on the highway with the CDL on seems to me like your riding on rails. Turning is another thing altogether. When your driving with any snow on the ground you have to think it is going to be slippery period.
I've read where it's better to leave everything unlocked while driving till you need it, but driving straight at 30- 40 mph on the highway with the CDL on seems to me like your riding on rails. Turning is another thing altogether. When your driving with any snow on the ground you have to think it is going to be slippery period.
Dedicated snow tires are a must. Anything else and you're just kidding yourselves.
tires make a huge difference. The wifes Subaru has Blizzaks which work very well. I have Kelly TSR's on the 80. Last winter sucked so I had a local shop sipe them for me. It has made a huge difference in the overall traction. However, even with good factory siping side to side traction is a challenge.
It sounds like you hit an ice patch under the snow, not much you can do in that situation except get off the gas pedal (no braking) and steer into it. Try to keep the front wheels rolling so that at least you have some steering.
Two best things for snow driving 1) Slow down 2) Get good WINTER tires.
Mud tires good on roads cover in compact snow and ice LOL!!!
Mud tires good on roads cover in compact snow and ice LOL!!!
Azca
If there is a harder way - I will find it...
Right on the money Frank! Remember that ANY abrupt change, shifting gears, braking or a turn can put any vehicle in a spin on ice or snow. When my wife move from LA to Flagstaff she put her car in the ditch 3 times before she told me about it. Took her immediately to a parking lot and had her do everything from stomp on the gas to downshift while driving strait or turning for the next hour. After that short lesson she never put it in a ditch again. slow, Slow SLOW is the name of the game. That and easy transitions. Never lift completely off the gas at once (especially with a torquey engine or low gear), ease out of it, same with corners and braking.
4 wheel drive is good for going, not necessarily turning or stopping. Most drivers will not see any difference in a turn or stopping but will on starting out and then equate that to the vehicle's ability to corner. IT DOESN'T. Is 4 wheel drive better on slippery surfaces than 2 wheel drive. YES, but you have to know how to use it.
This is one area where horse play can save you much aggravation, body damage or harm to yourself or someone else. Play with it, you will get her figured out real quick!
Oh and again, a dedicated snow tire will eat ATs, any AT for breakfast on hard pack or icy snow as Frank said. These tires were designed for THAT purpose alone. All terrain means just that ALL, it does not excel at any but does everything ok.
I agree totally with Flank! So much that I spent an hour and a half with our 14 year old last night (kid, not truck) in a Walmart parking lot doing donuts and teaching him how to drift a truck in 2WD as well as 4WD. (We had some ice in Kansas City) Then I had him intentionally get it out of control in order to see how it felt, all in a controlled environment. THen, when he couldn't figure out how to get something, we'd switch and I'd drive for a while to show him again.
I am a very experienced snow/ice and mud driver from the farm. We have a 95 Jeep Gr. Ch. that has ABS with a v8. About 12 years ago, I was coming into our work parking lot headed for the building with just a skiff of snow on the ground. I was moving about 45 MPH and when I touched the brakes, I had nothing but ABS and no slowing down. Since I was so used to vehicles WITHOUT ABS, I fully expected to step on the brakes and be able to stop because the tires would bite THROUGH the snow and have traction. The ABS prevents that. Cue the E-Brake. When that wasn't enough, the one last-resort is stomp the brakes, jam it in reverse, let off the brakes and floor it. It got stopped about 15 feet from the building, but that was too close for comfort.
After that, I turned it loose in the parking lot to see how it handled, forced it to whip, full starts and stops, just so I could see what to do under extreme conditions.
Now, the LC doesn't have the HP the Jeep has, but it certainly has better control. I agree, tires are a HUGE factor in the snow. I currently have Michelin street tires on the LC that are nearly bald, so if we have to go out in the bad weather, the Jeep gets the call...only until I get new tires.
Also, learn to use the throttle to power out of those situations. Sometimes, braking is the worst thing you can do. The throttle can help the wheels PULL you where you need to go instead of giving up and sliding.
4x4's have all 4 wheels essentially turning the same speed on slick surfaces. When that happens, the steering goes away and you slide whatever direction you momentum will carry you. That's why the downhill around a corner thing is such a problem. One of my previous HD 4x4's was limited slip in front and rear with a fully gear driven transfer case (no VC). I completely lost it on an icy road because all 4 wheels WERE turning the same speed and I could NOT force it to turn by throttle or brake. I had to disengage 4WD and stomp the gas to bring the back end around in order the change my direction of momentum. No, I did not hit anything, but it definitely gave me some pucker factor.
Go play. Learn how it works. Use the throttle to change how it behaves. Good luck!
I am a very experienced snow/ice and mud driver from the farm. We have a 95 Jeep Gr. Ch. that has ABS with a v8. About 12 years ago, I was coming into our work parking lot headed for the building with just a skiff of snow on the ground. I was moving about 45 MPH and when I touched the brakes, I had nothing but ABS and no slowing down. Since I was so used to vehicles WITHOUT ABS, I fully expected to step on the brakes and be able to stop because the tires would bite THROUGH the snow and have traction. The ABS prevents that. Cue the E-Brake. When that wasn't enough, the one last-resort is stomp the brakes, jam it in reverse, let off the brakes and floor it. It got stopped about 15 feet from the building, but that was too close for comfort.
After that, I turned it loose in the parking lot to see how it handled, forced it to whip, full starts and stops, just so I could see what to do under extreme conditions.
Now, the LC doesn't have the HP the Jeep has, but it certainly has better control. I agree, tires are a HUGE factor in the snow. I currently have Michelin street tires on the LC that are nearly bald, so if we have to go out in the bad weather, the Jeep gets the call...only until I get new tires.
Also, learn to use the throttle to power out of those situations. Sometimes, braking is the worst thing you can do. The throttle can help the wheels PULL you where you need to go instead of giving up and sliding.
4x4's have all 4 wheels essentially turning the same speed on slick surfaces. When that happens, the steering goes away and you slide whatever direction you momentum will carry you. That's why the downhill around a corner thing is such a problem. One of my previous HD 4x4's was limited slip in front and rear with a fully gear driven transfer case (no VC). I completely lost it on an icy road because all 4 wheels WERE turning the same speed and I could NOT force it to turn by throttle or brake. I had to disengage 4WD and stomp the gas to bring the back end around in order the change my direction of momentum. No, I did not hit anything, but it definitely gave me some pucker factor.
Go play. Learn how it works. Use the throttle to change how it behaves. Good luck!
Amen to flank / badmuthatrucka.
I'll add the things I teach my kids -
Tire quality cannot be underestimated.
Once 5000 pounds is sliding, it's hard to stop.
Downshifting is better than braking in snow.
Emergency brakes will skid the rears, but you maintain steering control.
If you have steering control and you hit something stationary, you're going too fast and it's all your fault.
I'll add the things I teach my kids -
Tire quality cannot be underestimated.
Once 5000 pounds is sliding, it's hard to stop.
Downshifting is better than braking in snow.
Emergency brakes will skid the rears, but you maintain steering control.
If you have steering control and you hit something stationary, you're going too fast and it's all your fault.
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My 80 is way better than my Taco was in snow & ice.
My thoughts, learn to drive on the slick stuff. People who don't live in it all winter generally have no idea. Tap your brakes don't stand on them to slow down. Use your trans to slow you down, on hills and coming into corners. Slow down well before a corner. Know what your truck is going to do before it does it and be ready to react. Don't tailgate! Off-road and even AT tires not so good on ice unless sipped. Once sipped tires like the KM2s do pretty good on ice and sipping isn't going to do anything bad to them for dirt/rock use either. In fact it will help. The key with tires that are not snow/ice specific is how hard is the rubber. Hard rubber is like an ice skate on hardpack and ice. In other words hard tire compounds suck on ice, all your snow tires are soft compound which is why driving on them in summer kills them fast. Soft compound tires stay soft in cold weather and get even softer on hot pavement. Don't oversteer and if you break loose, steer the opposite direction your are sliding and give it a touch of throttle that usually brings the back end back around. Relax while driving on snow and ice, if you are uptight or tense it effects your driving.
Nobody can say to you 20mph is to fast for a corner. Heck I hit black ice corners at 60mph all the time with no worries. But they are usually sanded and I am experienced. It all depends on the corner, if it has been sanded and if you know how to drive on slick stuff. If no to the above, slow it way down and don't exceed your ability or you may crash.
Pretty simple stuff really. One funny thing I have noticed. Out in Oregon where I am from, people drive like champs in the rain but freak the fook out on snow/ice. Here where I live in the rockies, people drive like tards in the rain but drive like champs on ice. Wyoming gets lots of snow/ice and Oregon gets lots of rain hence the drivers experience in these places. I have lived in both so drive like a champ in both!
Cheers
lrowe_csp
Too many cruisers, not enough time
I know this is a different situation than the OP described, where the rear went out from under him, but I wanted to mention this also.
I'm running Duratrac's and I was driving around in the snow we just had yesterday here on the East Coast. I noticed that when the front tires tried to skid forward as I turned into a corner, I just had to give it a little gas and the front tires grabbed again and pulled me through the corner. That's completely non-intuitive, but in an AWD like the LC's, it's very effective. I did this multiple times to test the truck, and I got the same result each time. Worth taking the time to show this to the kids and wife as you give parking lot instruction.
I'm running Duratrac's and I was driving around in the snow we just had yesterday here on the East Coast. I noticed that when the front tires tried to skid forward as I turned into a corner, I just had to give it a little gas and the front tires grabbed again and pulled me through the corner. That's completely non-intuitive, but in an AWD like the LC's, it's very effective. I did this multiple times to test the truck, and I got the same result each time. Worth taking the time to show this to the kids and wife as you give parking lot instruction.
I have NEVER had any issues with my Toyo M/T's in the snow / ICE, until today. Driving down hill, at 10 mph (being careful as hell), i hit ice and did a 180 into the other lane (read end let go on me). luckily, i was able to flip another 180 and continue on my way. Slick ice is the devil, use good judgement and be careful. Knowing how your rig handles is soooo important. Find an empty lot and push it until you find the spot you lose traction, this will help you should you encounter bad road conditions.
