Drivetrain troubles! What to do?

[fubar fj]

I had hoped to cure my driveline vibrations when I found and replaced the missing driveshaft bolts on my 1961, but the problem was still there, only not as severe.

The vibrations got worse again, though, and I crawled under to have a look the other day. While pushing up and down on the rear driveshaft at the t-case yoke, I noticed the output shaft on the t-case moves quite a bit!

While absent-mindedly tugging on the d-shaft, I notice the whole t-case/transmission rocking up and down

The tranny mounts look old, but not broken or missing any rubber, so I crawl forward while still watching things move. My clutch inspection cover is missing (who knows when that went AWOL) and I see that my bellhousing is cracked through at the bottom edge and flexing.

Maybe someone has some helpful hints for me. I use the Cruiser as a nearly daily driver, but I have other vehicles to drive for however long it take to repair the damage.

Should I try rebuilding the transfer case and replacing the bellhousing? I should add that my transmission is pretty noisy and is tricky to shift, although some of that may be due to a worn clutch.

Alternately, maybe I swap out for a later 4 speed/ Tcase from a 40, along with the rear end? Seems like way more work, but possibly cheaper, and I'd have syncro in all 4 gears If you have applicable parts to sell, I'm all ears (but not all money, unfortunately).

FWIW, I've done engine, electrical, and body work, but I've never done a thing to the driveline on any car, so this is new stuff to me

 

[foxfab]

Take it to a competent welder and have it welded. It can be welded even though it is cast.

Jim posted the bearing part #'s in another thread that I think you need for the t case.

All FJ25 trannys are noisy. Put synthetic fluid in it and it should quiet it down a little.

Don't go over to the dark side! Resist as long as you can!

 

[fubar fj]

That's my inclination- keeping it close to original. I'll find someone here in Seattle to weld it up.

I'm a little sheepish about saying this, but I've been a metal fabricator for 9 years now, and I have almost no experience welding cast iron.

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Don't feel too bad, the drivetrain that I run now nearly fell out. The PO must not have tightened the bellhousing to tranny bolts enough and the one bolt that was tight ended up breaking an ear off the transmission. I can get you the number of the rod I used.....no magic. I've got an extra bellhousing if it's real serious.

I'd pull the tranny and transfer and try to see what's been killed by the vibration, the output flange may just have shaken loose though. The tranny and transfer is really simple. If I had it out I'd just put new bearings in it.

Haven't had to get a u-joint yet so no number on that.

 

[fubar fj]

Thanks for downplaying the issue. It's just what I need to hear.
I'll try to pull the tranny and tranfer together and see what's what.

Can I pull both through the floor as a unit? It would sure seem convenient to pull them up with a cherry picker and set them on a bench...

Should I drain them while they're still installed?

 

[zebrabeefj40]

You can work through the floor hole but the trans goes down to the floor instead of up through it.

As for welding cast iron, high nickel rod with preheat is the most common method. If preheat is not possible another technique is to weld an inch or two then hammer the weld bead with a ball peen hammer as it cools. This helps keep the weld from becoming brittle. Sounds odd but it does work. I can also add that when we welded cast iron molds in the foundry we didn't bother with preheat either. Never made much difference to the life of the part being repaired. Of course, given how rough foundry people are on equiptment, we never knew if the weld failed because of bad technique or poor treatment!

HTH,
Nick

 

[Living in the Past]

If this is still the original FJ25 bell housing I know why there is one in a junk yard or at least the last time I checked it was there. Should be able to get it pretty cheap since the demand isn't real high for these things. They don't have the transmission or transfer case anymore more they sold that a while back


John

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

If preheat is not possible another technique is to weld an inch or two then hammer the weld bead with a ball peen hammer as it cools.

I'll give Nick the credit......that's how and why I just did it myself with an old buzz box welder. Been a couple years now and its held up fine. Hardest part was pulling the bellhousing and grinding the ear/tranny then bolting the works up on the floor to make sure it was aligned before welding.

 

[fubar fj]

some updates

I've given up and put the LC in the shop. First assessments are not promising, but the shop owner doesn't know Cruisers well.

The list begins with:
new driveshafts and yokes front and rear
slave cylinder
rear brakes are soaked- he suspects failed axle seals...

For now, could someone advise driveshaft options other than new ones made to order. I have original TC and rear end, but the front end is later drums. Also, the E brake assembly is gone and replaced with a hard rubber spacer to fill the space where the drum would be. I'd like to have a parking brake, so what should I do?

Since the parts for this aren't easy to find, I'll need to help the guy out a lot... which means I need help, too.;p

thank in advance

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Are the driveshaft slip yokes shot? Even if they're not, I don't know a replacement u-joint yet, you'll have to try to find them by size. Front driveshaft must be custom already with a FJ25 yoke at one end and FJ40 at the other, they're splined differently so you can't swap yokes. I may have an extra original rear if yours is really shot.

I don't have any extra parking brake stuff, maybe someone else does.

Brake shoes will have to be relined.

Slave cylinder, rear bearings and rear wheel seal are the same as the early 40, part numbers should be in the part # thread.

Time for minitruck rear with parking brake in the drums?

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

Did you try to remove the front or rear driveshaft and drive around to see if you could isolate the vibration?

Thinking about the "hard rubber" spacer in the rear driveshaft.....
The output flange has a raised index ring on it that the drum fits on. The driveshaft then fits inside the drum with a similar ring on the driveshaft flange. The drum is what keeps the whole thing concentric, I doubt anything less than the drum or a machined index spacer would work without causing problems.

 

[FJnotCJ]

Do not give up Fubar, it runs, which is most of the battle...from what I gather...I probably have what you need as far as parking brake parts, if you really want to turn back the clock how 'bout a whole 25 front axle ...

Maybe check the pinion nuts also, they get loose and wobble and then ruin the diffs....

I'm away for a couple more weeks, sorry I can't get stuff to you right away...

 

[Mace]

It would be very easy for a rubber spacer on a rear ds to cause your vibrations. And, that vibrations would wreak havoc on your tranny and tcase. I am not positive on the U joints. Are they different than 40 U joints??? You might want to call Jess at Highangle Driveline. He is amazing at helping out with the details.

Is the 25 BH different than any of the older F BH's???

You have some mainteneance to do... And tell you what, having a 25 as a daily. that takes brass

 

[fubar fj]

Alright, I'm taking notes here.

Maybe the front end only has backing plates and drums from a 40, but the original axle/housing? That shaft is pretty old on the front to be a custom. 'Sides, this rig doesn't look like it's been treated to anything "custom."

I'm 89% sure the mechanic said the yokes were shot on the driveshafts, so it sounds like time for new ones, after all. I was really hoping I could use good DS's from a later model 40, but I'll bite the bullet.

Thanks for the tip on axle seals and such. What happens if the axle is galled or grooved where the seal rides? That was raised as a possible issue...

More (or less) to come, soon.

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

I am not positive on the U joints. Are they different than 40 U joints??? You might want to call Jess at Highangle Driveline.

Different, and not available by application, you're going to need someone willing to do some homework.

Is the 25 BH different than any of the older F BH's???

Different tranny mounting pattern and about 3/8" shorter.

Maybe the front end only has backing plates and drums from a 40, but the original axle/housing?

Possible, it will all bolt together. If it's a long pinion differential it's a 25 front end.

That shaft is pretty old on the front to be a custom. 'Sides, this rig doesn't look like it's been treated to anything "custom."

"Custom" would be welding on a FJ40 yoke, no big deal for a driveshaft place, and it could have been in there the last twenty or thirty years. The 25 joint is obviously bigger than a 40 so if the two joints on the shaft are different, that could be it.

Thanks for the tip on axle seals and such. What happens if the axle is galled or grooved where the seal rides?

The wearing surface for the bearing and seal comes with the bearing (bearing race).

 

[Mace]

So a 25 joint is bigger than an older three speed 40 joint? Is it larger than a 4 speed cruier joint?

I am still betting that Jess has the ability..

 

[foxfab]

I doubt anything less than the drum or a machined index spacer would work without causing problems.

Grinder

JUST KIDDING!!!

 

[fubar fj]

I'm of a mind to ask the mechanic to just pull the driveshafts and inspect the trans and TC, and look at my clutch while the cracked bellhousing is repaired. Doesn't it seem that new driveshafts connecting a clapped out TC to questionable diffs and axles is sort of the wrong sequence?

I feel the tranny is still usable as is, but the TC prolly needs some love. This would also get things moving, while I try to source E brake parts.

If only I had a garage...

the mech was pretty excited that I'm able to find parts. Let's just hope I find some extra cash!

 

[FJnotCJ]

If only I had a garage...

the mech was pretty excited that I'm able to find parts. Let's just hope I find some extra cash!

Argh...paying a mechanic.....trailer that thing out to my place, we'll kick the pink pantied thing out of the garage, practice bolting things together, eat buffalo, and fix more stuff...really....in two weeks

 

[Living in the Past]

I can check With M&M automotive and see what shape their old drivelines are in. The axles were original but it had some type of J**p running gear in the rest of the drive line. Might have drivelines you could get parts off of. I know their are not looking to make big money off their leftover parts and would like to see them go to someone who could use them. Don't forget I know where a bell housing is in junkyard and should be able to pick it up pretty cheap. I not looking to make any profit from these but would like to help. If I could find a good used part I would prefer it over a welded part but that's just me. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.

So Phil I need to rebuild one of my diffs with the Torsen limited-slip. I finally got a spare axle that I can get the small pinion shims I need. Is your shop by appointment only or a driveups welcome ? I would like to install them in my running 61. The axles are in my running 60 that I'm going to use the floor out of to replace the one in my other 61. Let's see that would taking me from two running 25s and two non runners to one runner and three non runners. That is the way it's suppose to be done right ?

John