I've got the new joint in and snap rings on. The FSM says to "tap the yoke until there is no clearance between the bearing outer race and the snap ring". When I do that, the joint seems very stiff in both directions. Is that normal? The old joints I removed were very free in both directions, but they did have 100,000 miles on them.
Drive Shaft U Joints
- Thread starter Adventure Teq
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Muddy Bean
Breaking something or fixing something
Another data point: I had the exact same issue as Spresso. Bought a new driveshaft and problem was solved
Adventure Teq
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #23
Alright folks. The great news is that I have finally eliminated the vibration, the bad news is that it cost me another $1200 or so to do it. And what a process it turned out to be. But now she's as smooth as the day she was new, and with 315's!
BLUF:
1 Straightened/balanced rear drive shaft.
1 Slee Diff Drop Kit.
2 New front OEM CV shafts/seals.
With (a) bad front CV shaft(s) it probably won't matter what you do to the rear drive shaft in a situation like mine. Better off to drop the front diff when you put on the lift. Depending on the miles of the truck (170,000 in my case) the shafts might already be on their way out anyway and that increased angle just might make that happen right away, regardless of what the boots have to say about it.
The process:
As I mentioned in my last post I was going to take the rear drive shaft down and have em check it out. I thought it might need to be lengthened but upon discussion with Tom Wood himself I realized I could just check the balance at both the original length and at the new extended length to see if there was any difference. Apparently the shaft had over time warped to a degree, so it was unable to be balanced until they fixed that. On the lathe they applied heat and got it straightened right out then rebalanced it with new weights at the extended length. Great I thought, straightening a bent shaft and balancing it out ought to take care of the problem. I drove it and although the vibration was reduced it was still quite prevalant. But at least that only cost me $40 vs. a whole new shaft. My Ogden dealership wanted around $800 for the two piece unit, but Kurt priced me a replacement around the $400 mark. But in the end I didn't need one anyway.
My next step was to try to drive the truck with each of the drive shafts out one at a time to try to isolate front or rear. Upon driving with only the front shaft in (center diff locked, essentially front wheel drive) the vibes and noises were dramatically increased. At this point I basically committed to rebuilding the front end (new boots at a minimum & diff drop kit) as should have been done along with the lift installation (this truck has 170,000 miles on it). In the mean time, for the two weeks I had to leave for work, I just had my wife drive it around with only the rear shaft in and center diff locked. I thought the black electrical tape over the instrument panel lights was a professional touch for her two weeks and boy was I glad to take it off!
The vibes were still there but not nearly as much. At first I was reluctant to drive it this way but eventually gave it a shot and proved that it can be done without any harm to the gear boxes, for at least some period of time.
I knew the front boots were shot and I theorized that maybe the vibes were coming from the front when the rubber slung to one side eccentrically at high speeds. This may or may not have been a factor but after debating whether to just drop the diff and try to reboot it, then deciding to go ahead and spend the cash for the new OEM shafts I discovered the right inner joint had one of the 3 roller assemblies in pieces inside. It was shot. Primary source of the vibes and noises identified.
I did the diff drop kit, which only took about an hour or a little more, then spent the rest of the day getting grease up to my armpits putting in those sweet new seals and shafts. A quick note: as some have mentioned before, separating the upper ball joint is probably the best (and only way if you don't want to disassemble the hubs) way because of the limited clearance between the bottom of the disc and the ball joint which prevents you from sliding the puller into place, at least my puller. The second side was a lot quicker because of this realization. Also; turning the steering wheel in favor of pushing your spindle outward helps greatly with clearing the shaft from the two holes.
As for the outboard axle shaft clips that Skidoo mentioned; Kurt does offer them but his recommendation was that those were usually only necessary when rebuilding the hubs or otherwise changing those dimensions, not when only putting in new shafts. There was some small gap, the same as with the old shafts so I think it's good.
With everything bolted back up I was pretty darn confident that it was going to be fixed. Oh what relief it was when I loaded her up on the on ramp and continued all the way up to 85 mph indicated and didn't feel a thing! So sweet!
So there ya have it. My little adventure. Hope it helps and offers up good reading to anyone in a similar predicament. But then again, where did this thread start? U joints?... Oh well, into the archives!
BLUF:
1 Straightened/balanced rear drive shaft.
1 Slee Diff Drop Kit.
2 New front OEM CV shafts/seals.
With (a) bad front CV shaft(s) it probably won't matter what you do to the rear drive shaft in a situation like mine. Better off to drop the front diff when you put on the lift. Depending on the miles of the truck (170,000 in my case) the shafts might already be on their way out anyway and that increased angle just might make that happen right away, regardless of what the boots have to say about it.
The process:
As I mentioned in my last post I was going to take the rear drive shaft down and have em check it out. I thought it might need to be lengthened but upon discussion with Tom Wood himself I realized I could just check the balance at both the original length and at the new extended length to see if there was any difference. Apparently the shaft had over time warped to a degree, so it was unable to be balanced until they fixed that. On the lathe they applied heat and got it straightened right out then rebalanced it with new weights at the extended length. Great I thought, straightening a bent shaft and balancing it out ought to take care of the problem. I drove it and although the vibration was reduced it was still quite prevalant. But at least that only cost me $40 vs. a whole new shaft. My Ogden dealership wanted around $800 for the two piece unit, but Kurt priced me a replacement around the $400 mark. But in the end I didn't need one anyway.
My next step was to try to drive the truck with each of the drive shafts out one at a time to try to isolate front or rear. Upon driving with only the front shaft in (center diff locked, essentially front wheel drive) the vibes and noises were dramatically increased. At this point I basically committed to rebuilding the front end (new boots at a minimum & diff drop kit) as should have been done along with the lift installation (this truck has 170,000 miles on it). In the mean time, for the two weeks I had to leave for work, I just had my wife drive it around with only the rear shaft in and center diff locked. I thought the black electrical tape over the instrument panel lights was a professional touch for her two weeks and boy was I glad to take it off!
The vibes were still there but not nearly as much. At first I was reluctant to drive it this way but eventually gave it a shot and proved that it can be done without any harm to the gear boxes, for at least some period of time.I knew the front boots were shot and I theorized that maybe the vibes were coming from the front when the rubber slung to one side eccentrically at high speeds. This may or may not have been a factor but after debating whether to just drop the diff and try to reboot it, then deciding to go ahead and spend the cash for the new OEM shafts I discovered the right inner joint had one of the 3 roller assemblies in pieces inside. It was shot. Primary source of the vibes and noises identified.
I did the diff drop kit, which only took about an hour or a little more, then spent the rest of the day getting grease up to my armpits putting in those sweet new seals and shafts. A quick note: as some have mentioned before, separating the upper ball joint is probably the best (and only way if you don't want to disassemble the hubs) way because of the limited clearance between the bottom of the disc and the ball joint which prevents you from sliding the puller into place, at least my puller. The second side was a lot quicker because of this realization. Also; turning the steering wheel in favor of pushing your spindle outward helps greatly with clearing the shaft from the two holes.
As for the outboard axle shaft clips that Skidoo mentioned; Kurt does offer them but his recommendation was that those were usually only necessary when rebuilding the hubs or otherwise changing those dimensions, not when only putting in new shafts. There was some small gap, the same as with the old shafts so I think it's good.
With everything bolted back up I was pretty darn confident that it was going to be fixed. Oh what relief it was when I loaded her up on the on ramp and continued all the way up to 85 mph indicated and didn't feel a thing! So sweet!
So there ya have it. My little adventure. Hope it helps and offers up good reading to anyone in a similar predicament. But then again, where did this thread start? U joints?... Oh well, into the archives!
Right on, glad it is resolved!
Counterpoint: It doesn't matter why the snaprings are removed...but the fact they are removed is more the point of replacing the snaprings. Arguably, they SHOULD be replaced when swapping in a different CV because more often than not, based upon my experience, it typically requires a slightly thinner or thicker snapring thickness to maintain a snug fit.
For the minimal cost of the snaprings and the damage multiplier they can impart if they fail (they're oh so easy to stretch even slightly when removing them), and there are several accounts of snapring failures on this forum, they should IMO be swapped out for new when they need to be removed; regardless of the reason they are removed.
I am bringing this one up from the depths.
I picked up a vibration at highway speed after wheelin' the other day. I have 325k miles on the 100 at this point and I just ate up a CV/Axle due to slinging grease last month... I recently greased the ujoints and driveshaft about 1,200 miles ago hoping to eliminate a squeeking while reversing (read that here on 'mud).
I yanked on my driveshafts on the way home (after feeling the vibes at about 60mph and up) but didn't have any noticeable play. I plan on pulling one drive shaft at a time and locking the center to see if I can isolate the issue. Is there any concern of running the center diff lock at 60+mph without one driveshaft installed?
Thanks in advance-
I picked up a vibration at highway speed after wheelin' the other day. I have 325k miles on the 100 at this point and I just ate up a CV/Axle due to slinging grease last month... I recently greased the ujoints and driveshaft about 1,200 miles ago hoping to eliminate a squeeking while reversing (read that here on 'mud).
I yanked on my driveshafts on the way home (after feeling the vibes at about 60mph and up) but didn't have any noticeable play. I plan on pulling one drive shaft at a time and locking the center to see if I can isolate the issue. Is there any concern of running the center diff lock at 60+mph without one driveshaft installed?
Thanks in advance-
uHu
Bridgeburner
No problem running with only one driveshaft (aka Propellor shaft) and CDL.
Have good look at your prop shaft and diff flange for any scrapes or dings- even a slight scrape on the prop shaft will throw it out of true/balance. Have a look at the back side of the wheels- the cavity of the spokes like to hold mud which can throw your balance off- (and obviously so does loosing weights....
)
Hey Gents
In a similar boat. Have a pretty aggressive vibration at 70 mphs...took the d-shafts off and the U-joints were tight and seemed ok...maybe a little bit of grinding...but nothing loose at all (and re-lubed while I was looking at them).
So, took the rear off and went for a ride. about 75% of the vibs are gone.
I think I plan to re-install rear and remove front and compare the differences
Tires have been balanced and this started happening only about 10k miles ago....it has had the lift and stuff for over 50k...
So concerned that replacing U-joints won't solve problem and only a new d-shaft will solve. So pay $100 for a set of u-joints now + 2hrs of work and hope I have the right thickness on the c-clips etc or just buy the $400 d-shaft and know it is done!!!
Truck has 230k miles, OME lift, armored all over, and weighs about 6k lbs...
U-joints have been lubed per schedule.
In a similar boat. Have a pretty aggressive vibration at 70 mphs...took the d-shafts off and the U-joints were tight and seemed ok...maybe a little bit of grinding...but nothing loose at all (and re-lubed while I was looking at them).
So, took the rear off and went for a ride. about 75% of the vibs are gone.
I think I plan to re-install rear and remove front and compare the differences
Tires have been balanced and this started happening only about 10k miles ago....it has had the lift and stuff for over 50k...
So concerned that replacing U-joints won't solve problem and only a new d-shaft will solve. So pay $100 for a set of u-joints now + 2hrs of work and hope I have the right thickness on the c-clips etc or just buy the $400 d-shaft and know it is done!!!
Truck has 230k miles, OME lift, armored all over, and weighs about 6k lbs...
U-joints have been lubed per schedule.
Adventure Teq
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #30
I'm working through some vibes once again on my Hundo. Hope to report back a final conclusion in the coming days.
Pertaining to the driveshaft: 5 years ago when I was resolving my original vibes from lifting the truck, I was near certain it was a drive shaft problem, U joints/slip joint etc. I took it to Tom Wood's shop here in Ogden and he checked the balance. They were perfectly fine, not bent, not missing a weight, perfect (EDIT: Funny how 5 years makes the memory fade. Rereading my post above, I guess the shaft wasn't perfect... Anyway, not the full problem as mentioned). That particular problem was solved by adding the diff drop kit, and replacing both front CV shafts, my current issue is 5 years newer and a longer story. Point is, if you can, take the shafts to your local drive shaft shop and have them check the balance.
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Thanks HawkDriver. I forgot to mention that I have the Slee Diff drop that was installed before cranking up the T-Bars (later replaced with OME bars and cranked to achieve 55mm droop...or what ever the target is...).
Don't have a local D-shaft balance shop that I have found...probably need to call around. There is one about 1 hour away...will keep that in reserve.
Update on my investigation:
- Without Rear Driveshaft: Vibs are about 50-70% better
- Without Front Driveshaft: Vibs are about 40% better
Conclusion: Maybe they are fighting each other? half-shafts still spinning and can be transferring vibs throughout the driveline
Latest thought based on HawkDriver's solution:
- My front right half-shaft is always throwing a little bit of grease between the boot and axle interface. I used big hose clamps to keep that to a minimum...Maybe the hose clamps are causing imbalance on the half-shafts because the clamp screws on the outboard and inboard are not opposing. I do have a spare brand new half-shaft that I could swap in as well. So next steps:
- Reconfigure hose clamps on halfshafts to be opposing
- Check motor mounts (T-case mount is good...engine ones are hard to inspect)
- If that does not work - install the spare half shaft on right side
- If that does not get me to 0 vibs, check balance of drive shafts
- Last effort, replace other half-shaft (they are like $400...and super heavy! Was amazed when i picked up my spare)
Note that i repacked front bearings last year and installed the correct size c-clip to get very minimum gap between c-ring and shaft notch...per FSM.
Much appreciated guys!
Don't have a local D-shaft balance shop that I have found...probably need to call around. There is one about 1 hour away...will keep that in reserve.
Update on my investigation:
- Without Rear Driveshaft: Vibs are about 50-70% better
- Without Front Driveshaft: Vibs are about 40% better
Conclusion: Maybe they are fighting each other? half-shafts still spinning and can be transferring vibs throughout the driveline
Latest thought based on HawkDriver's solution:
- My front right half-shaft is always throwing a little bit of grease between the boot and axle interface. I used big hose clamps to keep that to a minimum...Maybe the hose clamps are causing imbalance on the half-shafts because the clamp screws on the outboard and inboard are not opposing. I do have a spare brand new half-shaft that I could swap in as well. So next steps:
- Reconfigure hose clamps on halfshafts to be opposing
- Check motor mounts (T-case mount is good...engine ones are hard to inspect)
- If that does not work - install the spare half shaft on right side
- If that does not get me to 0 vibs, check balance of drive shafts
- Last effort, replace other half-shaft (they are like $400...and super heavy! Was amazed when i picked up my spare)
Note that i repacked front bearings last year and installed the correct size c-clip to get very minimum gap between c-ring and shaft notch...per FSM.
Much appreciated guys!
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Adventure Teq
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #32
When you say "hose clamp" do you mean an actual hose clamp? I've had 6 CV shafts on this truck, all were OEM Toyota, none of them came with a hose clamp. As most CV's use the standard flip/bend/pound flat clamps, or the crimped with tool type, I'd be concerned that these hose clamps are culprit. Did the previous owner install them? Are they original? Are they OEM? Can you remove them & maybe temporarily run a couple of medium/small zip ties, balanced out, to isolate?
They are the gear worm hose clamps. Nice ones used on BMWs / Mercedes....they were there when I bought the truck...assumed where added because of more extreme driveline angles up front with lift...even with diff drop.
Good idea. Will remove and replace with zip ties to see if this helps.
Trying to isolate and not replace everything. Those parts are all expensive !!! (Driveshafts, axles, etc).
Good idea. Will remove and replace with zip ties to see if this helps.
Trying to isolate and not replace everything. Those parts are all expensive !!! (Driveshafts, axles, etc).
They are special hose clamps which have knurled slots instead of cut. Regular ones will damage boots. McMaster-Carr has them in bulk and if you check some of the several threads here about boot clamps you should find other sources.
Yeah....meant to say "non-perforated band" type..... no slots in band. But they have big screws that could be through off Ballance when spinning at 70 mph
I had a host of weird vibes in my rig once I lifted it. I knew the outboard front axle shafts had worn splines, and the outer flanges were also worn. I replaced both the shafts with Napa new (not remaned) for about $100 each and did a part-time conversion while I was at it. No vibes at all, completely gone, steers better, accelerates better, no clunks, bonks or mystery noises. I also found that the rear diff flange was out of agreement with the T-case flange by 5 degrees once lifted. I shortened the rear upper control arms about 3/4" and got them back in agreement.
Considering the actual speed of the axles at that radius, (2.5"?) I would think it just about impossible for the clamp to be the culprit.
Had the vibration at speed. Removed the rear drive shaft and found a loose U joint. Having new u joints installed, rebuild and balanced $170. I get it back tomorrow, fingers crossed the problem is resolved.
Hey guys. Status of my vibs at high speeds.
- rear drive shaft was out of phase by 1 notch...weird. not sure how long it was this way. Still vibs.
- rear T-case flange and rear pinion angles match. No need for adjustable rear UCAs....all good
- replaced front right axle shaft....had been leaking for awhile. Still vibs, but slightly less vibs
So, my feel is that u-joints are worn out (230k on truck) or driveshafts are out of balance. Nothing local for balancing. Thinking of doing u-joints...a little concern getting them installed perfectly with correct spacers etc. I guess I can learn by doing!
Any other ideas???
Have a great Sunday
- rear drive shaft was out of phase by 1 notch...weird. not sure how long it was this way. Still vibs.
- rear T-case flange and rear pinion angles match. No need for adjustable rear UCAs....all good
- replaced front right axle shaft....had been leaking for awhile. Still vibs, but slightly less vibs
So, my feel is that u-joints are worn out (230k on truck) or driveshafts are out of balance. Nothing local for balancing. Thinking of doing u-joints...a little concern getting them installed perfectly with correct spacers etc. I guess I can learn by doing!
Any other ideas???
Have a great Sunday
Check your u-joints on the drive shaft. It's easy.
Have your tires balanced by a competent shop.
Have your tires balanced by a competent shop.
