Doug Demuros thoughts on killing the LC.

[Artie]

I had to stop the video to make this comment... he bought a Defender over a Land Cruiser because the LC lacks adaptive cruise control!?! I get the tech is dated in the LC and all but the stones it takes to roll the dice on a Defender is enough to question his sanity but to do so for a electrical option knowing Land Rovers reputation on electronics is probably the worst in the business is a bridge too far for me.

 

[Stevepipeman]

I respect this guys opinion when it comes to cars so I thought it was worth posting. Feel free to add it to an existing thread if needed.

It doesn't surprise me that the LC would be cancelled in N. America. As owners, we know that these vehicles are built to operate in tough environments and are engineered to last. Unfortunately, when you look at what the average new vehicle buyer in the US wants, for $100k, is a luxury liner with a hand-stitched leather dash and tons of curb appeal. If the re-badged Lexus doesn't make this point, what does? Read most reviews of LC's and they're listed as boring and lacking in the most current technology, but very capable. In reality, most of us buy these vehicles after they've depreciated and we use them more for they're intended purpose than the blue bloods that buy them initially. I shake my head every time I see Land and Range Rovers, knowing that the women or high paid professional driving them wouldn't know what the low gear range is even for. Unfortunately, most of the buyers of these vehicles are making a fashion statement and buy them to impress others and the manufacturers know it. They'll continue to build them for people who need to get around in comfort in Africa and the Middle East where reliability and durability are essential. Meanwhile, we'll be stuck with Rovers, Cherokees, Escalades, Telurides and all the other junk that impresses less than knowledgable wannabies.

 

[slipkid13]

I had to stop the video to make this comment... he bought a Defender over a Land Cruiser because the LC lacks adaptive cruise control!?! I get the tech is dated in the LC and all but the stones it takes to roll the dice on a Defender is enough to question his sanity but to do so for a electrical option knowing Land Rovers reputation on electronics is probably the worst in the business is a bridge too far for me.

Doug has many cars so when his Defender dies he can just grab another, no inconvenience.

 

[spc7669]

It doesn't surprise me that the LC would be cancelled in N. America. As owners, we know that these vehicles are built to operate in tough environments and are engineered to last. Unfortunately, when you look at what the average new vehicle buyer in the US wants, for $100k, is a luxury liner with a hand-stitched leather dash and tons of curb appeal. If the re-badged Lexus doesn't make this point, what does? Read most reviews of LC's and they're listed as boring and lacking in the most current technology, but very capable. In reality, most of us buy these vehicles after they've depreciated and we use them more for they're intended purpose than the blue bloods that buy them initially. I shake my head every time I see Land and Range Rovers, knowing that the women or high paid professional driving them wouldn't know what the low gear range is even for. Unfortunately, most of the buyers of these vehicles are making a fashion statement and buy them to impress others and the manufacturers know it. They'll continue to build them for people who need to get around in comfort in Africa and the Middle East where reliability and durability are essential. Meanwhile, we'll be stuck with Rovers, Cherokees, Escalades, Telurides and all the other junk that impresses less than knowledgable wannabies.

I can’t properly express how much I like this analysis without sounding creepy to borderline stalkerish. Well said, sir!

 

[greynolds]

The latest LC does have adaptive cruise control, it just won’t come to a full stop in traffic. While the full stop feature is nice to have and I liked having it on my G-wagon, it’s not that big a deal. The auto distance from the vehicle in front of you is the key feature as it actually makes cruise control usable.

I do think there’s at least some truth to what he was saying about the typical buyer demographic and that they’re very loyal buyers. the current LX is a mixed bag for most of us enthusias types largely due to things like the front bumper design, but if they release a more off-road oriented trim level, I suspect most of us would be happy if our next Land Cruiser was under the Lexus umbrella.

 

[White Stripe]

Are you paying them for a lube? Is it one the order? If not, wont get done.

I agree. Lube is a separate labor code compared to a oil change. When I was at Lexus I would always try to get customers to buy a lube since it paid so well.

 

[ATwoZ]

I had to stop the video to make this comment... he bought a Defender over a Land Cruiser because the LC lacks adaptive cruise control!?! I get the tech is dated in the LC and all but the stones it takes to roll the dice on a Defender is enough to question his sanity but to do so for a electrical option knowing Land Rovers reputation on electronics is probably the worst in the business is a bridge too far for me.

So admittedly I enjoy watching Doug (and Hoovie) from an entertainment standpoint, and that the details he gets into "Quirks and Features" on some ridiculously crazy cars is just fun.

That being said he actually has talked about the feature in more depth before, and specifically for him he wants the 'full speed' version down to a stop. His rationale was that he drives a ton to get to the various cars he reviews and for a daily driver that's one of his requirements.

Either way I'm sad to see the LC go from NA, just hoping that Toyota pulls some rabbit out of their hat and this isn't one of their dumbest decisions.

 

[Artie]

So admittedly I enjoy watching Doug (and Hoovie) from an entertainment standpoint, and that the details he gets into "Quirks and Features" on some ridiculously crazy cars is just fun.

That being said he actually has talked about the feature in more depth before, and specifically for him he wants the 'full speed' version down to a stop. His rationale was that he drives a ton to get to the various cars he reviews and for a daily driver that's one of his requirements.

Either way I'm sad to see the LC go from NA, just hoping that Toyota pulls some rabbit out of their hat and this isn't one of their dumbest decisions.

Ah, getting the full details of his requirements for the feature makes a little more sense.
Agree on your other points as well.

 

[Redbull]

I have full speed adaptive cruise control in my S class and it’s so jerky I never use it in stop and go traffic, more power to him if he enjoyed it on his E63 and now Defender.

To be fair he’s going to use it 99% on the road it’s not like he said I’m going to a remote jungle and I’m choosing a Defender over a Land Cruiser.

People complain about tech on the LC but give me Bluetooth Audio and ventilated seats and I’m happy. You can get that in a Hyundai Elantra these days.

The only gripe I have about the LC is that it’s slooooooowwww at its price point. Add to that most of us put big tires and huge weight and you are going to get smoked by everyone. There are 700 hp trucks In this price range.

 

[RubiconHeritage]

I have to agree with the concept of what Doug is saying. While I am NOT a CEO, executive or anything remotely close to that pay level, I did want a vehicle that was my one stop shop, while not having the flash of a Lexus. There is nothing wrong with expecting gr

Ah, getting the full details of his requirements for the feature makes a little more sense.
Agree on your other points as well.

His love for the new defender was because of his classic Defender, which he readily admits is a horrible vehicle. The new Defender he bought was his first ever brand new car. Considering how many cars that guys owned, thats kinda impressive. And he knew he was taking a gamble with his new one because he talked about TFLs issues with their attempts to acquire a new Defender. He just likes Defenders. Go figure. But yeah, he keeps a stable of about 4 vehicles, including a G-Wagon, Ford GT, 2 Defenders, and maybe something else.

 

[EPUro2019]

I'm a big fan of DD. I think he does a reasonable job of reviewing cars and pointing out interesting features. I think he honestly loves and appreciates the LC and I agree with his assessment. I think Toyota has done a terrible job of marketing the LC. I realize the cost of new is high but in the large SUV market 85k+ is now right in middle given how Cadilac/Lincoln/Merc/RR/BMW all compete in the segment now. The LC is a different vehicle entirely from those, it is reliable and can go anywhere. in 2008 paying 85K for a large SUV seemed crazy, in 2021 it is nearly a "bargain" especially when you consider lifespan/reliability. I think it is a mistake to get rid of the LC in North America. I thought it was a bad idea to get rid of the FJC. I'd love to see a new LC in the future, I don't think the storybook is closed. Hopefully they bring it back and do it justice.

 

[itrsteve]

Toyota Dealerships are the worst part of owning a Land Cruiser.

haha! I try to check my automotive snobbery at the door - but yeah, it’s a different world from the Porsche dealer.

Converse argument to that (and a very compelling reason for me buying one) is you can find a Toyota dealership anywhere and get this thing serviced in a pinch. Like when I go back to my hometown of Watertown NY (pretty much Chernobyl) - if something happened there, I’m covered.

 

[Tex68w]

I believe we will get a mid-size utilitarian replacement, but how big, how capable and at what trim level remains to be seen. It's going to be difficult because there will likely be some crossover with the 4Runner and I don't see them wanting to cannibalize that segment and it's sales. The 6th Gen 4Runner remains to be seen but I'd expect whatever is coming next as a FJC/LC replacement to be drastically different than the new 4Runner. Sadly the bulk of consumers want something more along the lines of a Highlander packed with tech that they plan to trade in every 3-5 years than they do a capable off-roader with a 25-year life span.

 

[fogby]

I'm a big fan of DD. I think he does a reasonable job of reviewing cars and pointing out interesting features. I think he honestly loves and appreciates the LC and I agree with his assessment. I think Toyota has done a terrible job of marketing the LC. I realize the cost of new is high but in the large SUV market 85k+ is now right in middle given how Cadilac/Lincoln/Merc/RR/BMW all compete in the segment now. The LC is a different vehicle entirely from those, it is reliable and can go anywhere. in 2008 paying 85K for a large SUV seemed crazy, in 2021 it is nearly a "bargain" especially when you consider lifespan/reliability. I think it is a mistake to get rid of the LC in North America. I thought it was a bad idea to get rid of the FJC. I'd love to see a new LC in the future, I don't think the storybook is closed. Hopefully they bring it back and do it justice.

I think you hit the nail on the head. At least from my personal experience. I've always wanted a LC even though I will not fully take advantage of it's ability. I simply like knowing it's there if I need it. However in 2008 the LC's premium compared to other SUV's was just too much for me just to have the ability if ever needed. Come 2019, the price is in line with the other SUV's I was looking at - so it was an easy decision. Don't know what I'll get in 5-6 years when I get a new SUV. Certainly not the Lexus unless they change the front end. Probably would go back to the Tahoe.

 

[Tex68w]

haha! I try to check my automotive snobbery at the door - but yeah, it’s a different world from the Porsche dealer.

Converse argument to that (and a very compelling reason for me buying one) is you can find a Toyota dealership anywhere and get this thing serviced in a pinch. Like when I go back to my hometown of Watertown NY (pretty much Chernobyl) - if something happened there, I’m covered.

Agreed! I hate going to the dealer regardless of how nice it is. Getting a free loaner to use is nice as is the fancier customer lounge but in no way do I dictate my car purchases based off of that once in every 5-10K mile appointment. We will still frequent the Lexus dealer to service our GX until the drivetrain warranty is out but after that should I keep it I'll be doing my own service or I'll seek out a dependable independent shop. The only time I am appreciative of the dealership experience at the luxury dealerships is when I am purchasing the vehicle, it's usually a more respectful and pleasurable experience than it is with the domestics, but beyond that I couldn't care less.

 

[Stevepipeman]

I can’t properly express how much I like this analysis without sounding creepy to borderline stalkerish. Well said, sir!

Thank you. Go to tech Forums (drive train) and read my rant on "Underbody Disco Lights", a snarky essay about over-dressed Jeeps that will never see the other side of the curb because the owners don't want to hurt them and they're probably right.

 

[slowride]

When car people stop selling cars and trust tooth paste & soft drink marketing PhD's to do it for them, all charm is lost.

Yes Toyoda you have made an error.

For the $$$, the Merc GLS is like a private jet on wheels and doesn't have the Lexus "Look at me GRILL from Marvel Comics".

au revoir

 

[tincan45]

Great video, but I still see a very good argument against the NAS LC. Some were mentioned in the video and others in this thread

1 - Toyota doesn't know how to handle a LC customer (generally speaking).

a. High pressure sales don't fly
b. C rate customer service is the norm
c. Most would prefer never walk into the dealership

2 - LC owners keep the LC too long and pay cash

If they buy a car every 15 years, you can make as much or more on high volume, high turnover, lesser sales and back office revenue streams (warranties/GAP/financing).

3 - The service model is not geared toward an LC customer

Loaners are an exception rather than a rule, and when you do get a loaner, you get a base RAV4 and sticker on the dash reminding this is a "no smoking car"

Having said all this, I realize this is not the average MUD user either. Sure we get a lot of guys who purchase new, but I think it's safe to assume, the majority of the "certifiable" MUD members will buy on the secondary market and save the cash for mods and divorce attorneys (joking!).

The primary market for these soon to be 100K+ beasts really does make more sense at Lexus. I think this explains a little with regard to the latest J201 LX overland build which I thought was a very strange investment at the end the the 200 series model. It's obvious the are considering changing things up at Lexus. And it's due time. The days of suits and pressed pants are all but over except for a few lawyers and bankers. Everyone else in North America has adopted an much more "earthy" lifestyle...especially in the high end.

 

[MUDZLLA]

I see an opportunity to import 20 yr old cruisers into Canada and sell them to Americans in 5 yrs

 

[greynolds]

Loaners are an exception rather than a rule, and when you do get a loaner, you get a base RAV4 and sticker on the dash reminding this is a "no smoking car"

Rest assured that Mercedes never provided me with a G-class loaner and the loaner that was provided was always a "no smoking car" (a perfectly reasonable policy IMO and fine with me since I have asthma and don't smoke). Their loaners were Mercedes vehicles, but ran the gamut on the model - sometimes a C class sedan, sometimes a GLS. Most of the time, I ended up with either an E class sedan or a GLC. Same thing when I had the Lexus LX-470 a while back - the loaner was always a Lexus, but never an LX. But having SOMETHING to drive for the day or so the car was in for service was the important thing; I don't expect the get the exact model I own.