DOA (1 Viewer)

[78Cruzr]

Up until yesterday I had an intermittent problem... previously, after running errands (post office, etc), I would get back in and it would start right up. Then when I pull out into the street and accelerate, it dies completely as if someone turned off the key. I would then coast to the right side of the road, turn off the key and check under the hood for any loose wires (coil, etc). Nothing. I get back in and try again and it starts but slowly. This has happened about six or seven times in the past month.

I suspected an electrical problem. There's quite a rats nest of wires and splices under the hood on the passenger fender. So yesterday I went to AutoZone to pick up some suitable connectors and had the ignition system checked:
@ idle, voltage across the battery was 14.8V. I don't recall the alternator value.
@ ~2000 rpm, voltage was 15.9, alternator 48 Amps.

I went inside to purchase a voltage regulator but the one in stock didn't have the correct connector.

When I went outside to leave I could not get it started! It just cranked away without any combustion... the store manager came out and checked to see if the coil was providing a spark. Nothing. He brought out a replacement coil and we tried again. Nothing. He checked for a replacement ignitor but none in stock and would cost $240 if he ordered it.

I called a buddy and we tow strapped it back to the house where it now sits. I just tried to start it this morning and nothing but cranking...

From what I've read in the forums I suspect a dead ignitor and will run the FSM ignition tests this weekend.

My question: Does anyone have a recommendation on the ignition system... should I keep the "stock" set up or switch to something like the D.U.I. from Performance Distributors or ???

The motor is an '83 2F rebuilt w/ ~4000mi, stock '78 carb, new fuel pump, lines and filter. New coil & plug wires. The distributor is electronic (no points). I don't know if its the original or from the '83.

 

[Bad Mojo]

Do you have a picture of the distributor? If it is about 3.5" IIRC it is the 78 distributor. With the 83 distributor it is about 6" across I think. It is fairly large. When I swapped my 60 series one it was super easy, minus having my timing way off. Best of luck figuring all of it out.

 

[pappy]

If you have the small dizzy cap I would recommend you upgrade to either the DUI or the FJ60 dizzy/ignitor. Paul just did the FJ60 swap so he is now our resident expert.

 

[78Cruzr]

pics

here are some pics of the wiring and dizzy...

it appears that I have a '78.

I also found the problem...

 

[78Cruzr]

More pics

a few more pics...

 

[78Cruzr]

Problem found...

So the PPO (Previous PO) liked wire nuts...

He had spliced the wires from the ignitor to the distributor and tied them off with wire nuts.... It broke! BAD PPO!

 

[Bad Mojo]

Glad to hear you found the problem. Luckily if you decide to swap in a 60 series you won't have to worry about the side panel, which is nice.

 

[78Cruzr]

yeah, I was pleased to find a broken wire... I had called Dan and the ignitor is available but I think it is made of gold... MUD price is $344.

I did chase the wire back into the dizzy to make sure the rest was good. Glad I did... found to more partial breaks. Both on the soft Signal Generator wires. AutoZone has a replacement SG for $124 or you can buy a complete dizzy replacement including cap & rotor for $114! Makes me wonder who is setting the pricing!

 

[2manycruisers]

The newer dizzy is a better upgrade because of the vacuum advance instead of retard, but I have had bad advance diaphragms on 2 of 4 used dizzies I've bought. New advance for a used dizzy is $180 from toyota. I would bet an Autozone reman does not put a new advance in unless the old one is bad, but might be worth checking.

 

[78Cruzr]

I'll start looking/researching for a new distributor... reliability is my goal. I want to replace worn out parts with OEM new and/or upgrade along the way.

Keeping with the original ignition system means relying on the old ignitor. Moving to the D.U.I. would delete the coil/ignitor and bring peace of mind. Of course the original system has lasted 31 years and counting!

What's the advantage of going with the 60 series distributor?

 

[Cruisergreg]

The FJ60 dizzy has both vacuum and cetrifugal advance so the conditions of the mech advance springs need to considered on a used unit also.

Using the FJ60 dizzy on an older/desmogged system has a few pitfalls to be considered. It is designed to work as an intergral part of the smog system, particularly the EGR and air injection system. As such the 60 dizzy has an advance curve tuned to the differences in combustion temp produced by EGR operation which vary from a nonsmog system. There's also a high altitude compensation (HAC) as part of the process that advances the static timing something like 3 or 4 degrees above 3000 (give or take) but these things are delicate and if someone could find a working HAC modulator I'd buy them a beer (but not the HAC ).

You can get away with using a 60 dizzy with a missing/mismatched EGR, static timing set at 7 deg, at this altitude with no issues in driveability (even up to 13000 ftmsl!). From experience I've learned that once you drop below around 2500 ft msl these settings will produce a ping so the static timing needs to be backed off which then makes the old 2F sluggish. If the truck will never leave the RM west then don't worry about it.

Point is the 60 dizzy swap is not "completely" plug & play so it's good to just be aware of these minor incompatibilities so you don't get surprized if you find yourself driving in Seattle.

 

[maniacv]

I think you should just fix it and give it to your son

 

[78Cruzr]

I think you should just fix it and give it to your son

LOL! Who let you in here? I'm sure you'll get it soon enough... 30 years or so!

Cruisergreg, excellent information! Thank you!

It's fixed for now... I'll upload some pics of the temporary repair tomorrow.

 

[78Cruzr]

All done... almost

I got it all cleaned up...

 

[78Cruzr]

more pics

here's a few more...

I need to find where that little Black/Yellow wire goes. It's been hanging around since I bought the truck last September.

 

[Beowulf]

I need to find where that little Black/Yellow wire goes.

That is supposed to be hooked to the automatic oiler for the muffler bearing. Does your truck sound funny when it is running?

-Mike-

 

[pappy]

I'll bet if you take a volt meter to that wire with the key on you will have 12 volts. BY is usually ignition power and it probably is left over from something. It would be a great place to tie into if you ever wanted to install a switched aux fuse block (relayed of course).

 

[BionicCruiser]

California emissions had a ton of extra stuff that isn't used on our trucks too. it may have gone to something for that. I had a few wires that went nowhere on mine as well (when it was stock).

 

[78Cruzr]

Good times!

Ah, the old automatic oiler muffler bearing... I'll be sure to check that... IRRC, it's just downstream from the thermal reactor!

I like the idea of adding a switched aux fuse block. Your reference to relayed is so that it is only on when the key is turned to ignition?

I'm going to scourer the wiring diagram one more time to see if anything is left hanging.

I did pickup a voltage regulator from cdan yesterday... now the system is charging perfectly! 14.8V across the terminals @ 2000rpm

Well, I'm up and running! Now on to the next item... oil change, fix the leaky heater box, fix the back door... Good times!

 

[pappy]

I like the idea of adding a switched aux fuse block. Your reference to relayed is so that it is only on when the key is turned to ignition?

You use the relay to power the fuse block because I suspect that little wire might have limited capacity. So the BY wire would "turn on" the relay, and power would flow from the battery, to the relay, to the fuse block.

Somebody needs to manufacture a fuse block with a relay integrated in just for this purpose.