Discouraged, blue smoke on lx470 I just bought due to my old 99 lc blowing a head gasket....

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S

skshepherd

Joined
Jan 10, 2010
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Location
New London, NH
Hello all,

Short version is no smoke was evident during pre-purchase look over. Now blueish smoke on startup that is noticeable, then becomes intermittent to almost undetectable after 35 min or so.
  • oil pressure normal
  • changed oil and oil was not contaminated, new oil still clear
  • Coolant not contaminated
  • idles smooth, no misfires, accelerates strong
  • check pcv and it rattled, cleaned it and the hose
  • 239k on engine
From what I've discovered so far is that it could be a HG:bang: (which I just had to deal with on my 99) or valve stem seals leaking, or could it be low compressions, rings, cylinder wear? I've read that there is a way to change the valve seals without taking the head off but couldn't find the procedure or know of any shop in my area that could do it.

The good,

  • Virtually rust free, hard to find in New Hampshire- PO tailored it up from NC/SC about a year and a half ago
  • Timing belt, water pump, thermostat done
  • Valve cover gaskets replaced
  • spark plugs and all 4 02 sensors replaced
  • Toyota AHC globes and height sensor replaced, fluid flushed - working well
  • Steering rack bushings replaced
  • Tie rods replaced
  • heater T's done
  • Baseline on all fluids
  • New brakes and rotors
  • New tires
PO admitted it did smoke for him on startup when I contacted him after I noticed it. He said he thought it was normal and stated it wasn't using/burning oil.

Next steps?
  • Head gasket failure check
  • compression check/leak down test
  • Borescope the cylinders

Unlike my previous situation, depending on the diagnosis I feel this one is worth repairing, any opinions?

Does anyone recommend a mechanic in New Hampshire, Vermont, or Massachusetts?

If it is a head gasket or valve seals what other service could be done while paying for all that labor?
  • Starter contacts

I'll try and followup with videos of startup and also after 35min warm up.

Thanks in advance,

Steve
 
Probably not head gasket. Blue = Likely burning oil because of bad valve seal, piston ring, etc.

You can replace the valve stem seals without pulling the head, but you do have to remove the cams, which requires removing the timing belt, etc.

Piston ring replacement is much more involved…have to pull the engine out, remove the head, etc. Better off just buying another engine if bad/damaged ring, IMO.

But need to diagnose the cause first.
 
Our 2000 LX had a little blue smoke at start-up when cold when it was about 10 yrs old & 185,000 miles. It is now 21 yrs old & 315,000 miles and doesn't smoke at all on start-up. Not sure how it "fixed" itself, but it did.
 
You know, come to think of it, I did add some type of stop leak or something. It might have been Blue Devil, but I don't recall. It hasn't smoked in over a hundred thousand miles.
 
NOTHING TO WORRY.

Valve stem seals are seeping some oil overnight and is burning out on first startup. Had that in my 92 prizm and then during the head gasket job (due to over heating) I got fresh valve stem seals installed and no more blue smoke.

One can install valve stem seals without removing the heads and must be done at each cylinder at it's TDC so the valve won't fall into the compression chamber. The painful thing is you have to do 32 stem seals and is time consuming.

Just continue to run and try some AT-205 seal modifier.
 
Did you already change the oil? It could be an inferior quality of oil or the oil no longer having proper viscosity. The first thing I would do is change over to a good synthetic oil and run that for some time. There could be some gum around the oil rings that will dissolve over time with a good oil and timely oil changes. If things do not improve, you may want to try AT-205 re-seal next. It could help improve the valve seals and is a 'benign' one-time additive.

(Edit: Identical reply to the one above, posted while I typed this).
 
As long as its staying lubricated and coolant is good, I'd just drive on. Valve seals and rings usually don't cause rapid failure, just very slow. My old BMW had blue smoke on a acceleration for years of daily driving and racing, and a cross country trip. Still ran great when I finally tore it down just to upgrade pistons and cam.
 
It seems to be getting better on its own. The oil was topped off right before all of this and maybe there was too much. I changed it later that next day and it’s at the correct level. I wonder if that played a part?
 
@nissanh is right. its the valve guides that are worn. its an annoyance and not detrimental. hope that gives you some comfort knowing that it isn’t that bad I.e. your car isn’t going to get damaged by it. You will burn a slight amount of oil though but i wonder if it is enough that you will even notice it.
 
If you'd like to confirm valve guides/seals as the oil burning culprit get the motor up to proper temp, find yourself a longish downhill, cruise downhill (preferably in an intermediate gear) with NO THROTTLE for as many seconds as you can.... and then smash open the throttle. If there's a big cloud of blue smoke behind you immediately after opening the throttle the valve seals are probably leaking.... and hey. A bit of lubrication to the valve stems isn't a bad thing. :)
 
Your exhaust looks like normal moisture burn off you get with cold starts. Could be video but didn’t notice blue smoke. Does it smell like burnt oil?
 
So I saw the video and really didn't see too much blue smoke. But it's likely cause it's not a full cold start.

I was having white smoke condition on my 4.7l Tundra (same engine). Turned out that the power steering oil was getting into to engine. So monitor your power steering oil and see if you need to add anything to it on a consistent basis as well. When I mean consistent basis, is that I needed to add ps oil like on a weekly basis. The fix for that was changing the ps "air control valve".

Here is that video for the condition that I had. Smokey exhaust

So if your ps oil is okay it's very likely your valve guides. But as u said get it checked by doing the leak down test.
 
Thanks everyone. It was noticeable again this morning after a true cold start. Hard to get it to show up in a video.

Could this be cause by overfilling the engine and having it run a day like that and that it might correct itself?

A few have suggested Blue Devil or At205 treatment. Could this hurt anything?

thanks again
 
skshepherd said:
Thanks everyone. It was noticeable again this morning after a true cold start. Hard to get it to show up in a video.

Could this be cause by overfilling the engine and having it run a day like that and that it might correct itself?

A few have suggested Blue Devil or At205 treatment. Could this hurt anything?

thanks again
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use Blue Devil on something you want to keep driving for a while as it is just a band aid and not a fix. It does work, I used it in the engine of my snow plowing truck and it sealed it up.

AT-205 is a seal conditioner and in my experience works great.
 
Blue Devil is for head gasket treatment. I used it once and no issues except it killed the water pump seal prematurely (like around 50K miles for an AISIN water pump on my Prizm).

AT-205 is for oil seals and not for ANY form of a gasket. AT-205 will bring back the flexibility of an oil seal so it can flex better than before.

If you do not see blue smoke on 2nd start and after, then you have no issue with head gasket
(scientific reason for blue smoke is Rayleigh's effect: burned oil particles scatter blue light most)
 
nissanh said:
Blue Devil is for head gasket treatment. I used it once and no issues except it killed the water pump seal prematurely (like around 50K miles for an AISIN water pump on my Prizm).

AT-205 is for oil seals and not for ANY form of a gasket. AT-205 will bring back the flexibility of an oil seal so it can flex better than before.

If you do not see blue smoke on 2nd start and after, then you have no issue with head gasket
(scientific reason for blue smoke is Rayleigh's effect: burned oil particles scatter blue light most)
Click to expand...
The blue color isn't because of UV absorption causing a large reflection in the blue? Rayleigh scattering cross-sections are usually tiny.
 
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