Dirt Road Navigation

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W

Wilson

Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Threads
28
Messages
164
Location
Paradise, Ca
Been looking at options for a while to traverse and connect the thousands of miles of forest system, logging and other dirt roads in Northern California. I want to be somewhere, anywhere and be able to plot a dirt road route home or to another location. Seems the overland navigator would be best sutied for what I want.... now what to load it on?

The tough tab shown on the site, would be my first choice, if I could find one. What are others using? My laptop is relatively small, but still larger than what I want.

Any other suggestions? I used my handheld until now, but scrolling around the screen gets old and confusing when trying to cover long distances. the app on my iphone is ok, but requires downloading individula quadrants, which is A LOT of work.
 
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This is a subject I'm interested in, too, since NorCal is my homeregion, and I have an itch to find some dirt and logging roads.
Do you already have a source of maps and info? I can find some on my Delorme software if I look hard enough, but they don't make finding logging or rural roads easy.

As far as a reader goes, the ones with the big screens tend to be geared for road driving (IE TomTOM and such) your handheld would be better for actual navigation. You could "Make" one, as seen done in the "Computer in an FJ62" thread in the electronic toys section.

Good luck!

edit:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/electronic-toys/393629-computer-fj62-project.html
 
Combat Chuck said:
This is a subject I'm interested in, too, since NorCal is my homeregion, and I have an itch to find some dirt and logging roads.
Do you already have a source of maps and info? I can find some on my Delorme software if I look hard enough, but they don't make finding logging or rural roads easy.

As far as a reader goes, the ones with the big screens tend to be geared for road driving (IE TomTOM and such) your handheld would be better for actual navigation. You could "Make" one, as seen done in the "Computer in an FJ62" thread in the electronic toys section.

Good luck!

edit:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/electronic-toys/393629-computer-fj62-project.html
Click to expand...

I have maps and experience in the areas I've travelled to date, but am looking at exploring new areas. My handheld is the harming Oregon 500t. It has many roads, but few are labeled and by the time you zoom far enough out to have points "a" and "b" on the screen, the roads are no longer visible. It has worked well for driving at night and knowing where and how sharp the curves are, but is lacking when trying to route two points that could be 30 + aerial miles apart.

I've seen the inboard pc thread, but after having enough water in the cab to cover the center console in my 80, I definitely want something smaller, and portable. Thinking tablet pc size. I just don't know what's good and what is not.
 
Motion Computing makes tablet computers for industrial use. The new ones are pricey but you can get a used one on FleeBay for about 250 Dollars. The LS800 is the smaller version and I think it would be a good size for in car use. They are old computers (Roughly 4 years) so running a lot of programs is not a good idea. Try to find one with the view anywhere option.

I would run Overland Nav on it for dirt roads.
 
rusty_tlc said:
For me half the fun of exploring is looking at a paper map and getting lost. We've found some of the best places that way. :hillbilly:
Click to expand...

The only maps worthwhile are the usgs or the usf. Either way, that's a lit of paper to keep in the rig!

Muleysam said:
Motion Computing makes tablet computers for industrial use. The new ones are pricey but you can get a used one on FleeBay for about 250 Dollars. The LS800 is the smaller version and I think it would be a good size for in car use. They are old computers (Roughly 4 years) so running a lot of programs is not a good idea. Try to find one with the view anywhere option.

I would run Overland Nav on it for dirt roads.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, I'll check them out
 
rusty_tlc said:
For me half the fun of exploring is looking at a paper map and getting lost. We've found some of the best places that way. :hillbilly:
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I start getting excited whenever I see a map, like I'm about to take off on an adventure. I'd rather use a map anyday, but it's getting harder to find a map-ready copilot these days.
 
Combat Chuck said:
I agree with you. I start getting excited whenever I see a map, like I'm about to take off on an adventure. I'd rather use a map anyday, but it's getting harder to find a map-ready copilot these days.
Click to expand...
Ive had the same co-pilot for over 30 years, she just started really reading maps a few years ago. :meh: She's never complained about our getting lost on adventures so I guess it all works out.
 
I find this really interesting. The USGS and USF will have good current information put in to maps.

I have not got a GPS yet. It frustrates me when I'm out in the bush and someone stops, staring at their GPS and really no idea where they are. The data on any GPS is only as useful as it is current and it takes these companies providing the information a long time to retreive the info.

I've never had trouble finding paper maps specifically targetting offroaders. All the paper topo maps from USGS and forest service have dates on them so you can verify how current the info is.

In BC we have these Backroad Mapbooks for each area. I've found that keeping older versions is beneficial as I sometimes find old decommisioned roads that the map makers will no longer carry over into newer versions. Especially old logging and mining roads, and I can be fairly certain that newer GPS data will not have this 'older' information.

I have a roof over my head in my truck, so I carry different versions of maps of the same area I'm in. I don't have a GPS, don't know if I really need one yet. I love paper maps, they are cool!
 
USGS maps can be out of date around here wrt roads, some being 25 or more years old. The Forest Service updates the roads in the NF more frequently. You're right, there are good paper maps out there, but GPS has some major benefits.

Typos sent from my HTC EVO using the IH8MUD app...
 
It's too bad. I do photosurvey. Northern Calif I've done twice personally in the last 10 years. This stuff is high res digital imagery. Source out current orthophoto from USDA or USGS, or even try county sources. If there's a road, or trail, it's there. It's like google earth imagery, but better. Mind you, I've copied it for hunting areas, that works great.
 
cruiserpilot said:
It's too bad. I do photosurvey. Northern Calif I've done twice personally in the last 10 years. This stuff is high res digital imagery. Source out current orthophoto from USDA or USGS, or even try county sources. If there's a road, or trail, it's there. It's like google earth imagery, but better. Mind you, I've copied it for hunting areas, that works great.
Click to expand...
You lost me. Are you saying that all USGS paper maps have all existting roads?
 
I wanted to drop in this thread and offer a little advice. Along with owning Southeast Overland, I'm also a professional cartographer. ;)

If you want to link together dirt roads there will not be one data/map source to "rule them all." You are going to have two issues - accuracy (is the road actually there?) and legality (is the road public/open for travel?). I'm going to try and direct you to source data, that is "here are the organizations that make the data or are at least very very close to the originator", not sources like Garmin, TomTom, Google Earth, etc that collect data from sources, possibly generalize (make simpler, take out complex curves, etc) and then publish in their mapping products.

The USFS should have MVUMs (Motor Vehicle Use Maps) that show all legal trails/roads for motorized vehicles to travel in a US Forest. Check out my website HERE for some more info. I need to update this link but time isn't very plentiful lately. I have found exceptions where trails/roads listed on MVUM's have been closed or are listed in error, and situations where trails/roads that are confirmed open are not listed on the MVUMs. MVUMs are available to download for free at the link above.

Another good source for finding roads/trails are county road maps. These are usually pretty up to date and I've used County road maps to find some cool areas. Problem there is you either have to purchase a paper map, purchase the digital data, and sometimes you have to have expensive GIS (Geographic Information System) software to view the data and do much with it.

Now to USGS maps. These maps 'look good' partly because they have features such as streams, buildings, cities, place names, contour lines and LOTS OF DIRT ROADS AND TRAILS! BUT - many of these maps are 20, 30, 40+ years old. Roads they show have long since been closed or were just private logging roads 'back in the day.'

Aerials - looking at aerials is a good way to locate roads and trails because you can actually see them on the aerial but then you have the problem of figuring out if the road/trail is legal or not, who owns it, etc. In my area I don't go down a road or trail unless I know it is 100% legal. Around here snooping around is a good way to get shot. Out west where there is much more public land (BLM, etc) it might be different.

Wilson said:
The only maps worthwhile are the usgs or the usf. Either way, that's a lit of paper to keep in the rig!
Click to expand...

I do like paper maps - just something about them. Love 'em! Beware very outdated USGS maps with inaccurate data. Which USF(S) maps are you talking about?

cruiserpilot said:
I find this really interesting. The USGS and USF will have good current information put in to maps.
Click to expand...

Incorrect - they data they have is typically very out of date. It might be accurate, it might not.

re_guderian said:
USGS maps can be out of date around here wrt roads, some being 25 or more years old. The Forest Service updates the roads in the NF more frequently. You're right, there are good paper maps out there, but GPS has some major benefits.
Click to expand...

Eggxactly!

cruiserpilot said:
It's too bad. I do photosurvey. Northern Calif I've done twice personally in the last 10 years. This stuff is high res digital imagery. Source out current orthophoto from USDA or USGS, or even try county sources. If there's a road, or trail, it's there. It's like google earth imagery, but better. Mind you, I've copied it for hunting areas, that works great.
Click to expand...

Sounds like we do similar work. I've contracted a few orthophoto flights. Just gotta watch out for road/trail ownership.

re_guderian said:
You lost me. Are you saying that all USGS paper maps have all existting roads?
Click to expand...

I'm not the poster your talking to but no, USGS maps do not have all existing roads.


Something I didn't touch on are how do you get to your data. That is, paper maps v digital maps and what interface is 'best' for digital data. I've gotta head out for a hike with the wife so I'll touch on that later.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. I'm more familiar with mapping resources in the southeastern US but can also comment on other regions as many data sources cover the entire US to a degree.

:cheers:
 
Here's where I get my USFS maps. I download the quads I need, then paste them together in photoshop, blow it up to a ridiculously huge enlargement, and printout a 3 page by 3 page hard copy for hiking on my HP printer. My old-man eyes aint what they used to be! I tape it together and fold it up into a gallon size ziplock bag and hike away.

I'm not smart enough to figure out how to get versions of these maps into my GPS, or I'd be all over it. Road information here is top notch, according to my experience.

GSTC Clearinghouse > States & Territories

oh, and how to fold those pesky ginormous maps. Use method B-2

Map Reading - How to fold a map for use in land navigation with map and compass
 
Bringing this back up.... Went to finally order overland navigator today, everything looked good. I clicked on the "maps" page and NO northern Ca, WTF? So they're out. I've been tempted to get a baja series gps, but that would leave all of the plotting and mapping to me, or are there large downloadable maps like in the handheld gps units?
 
How about an iPad 3G with a rugged case and $20 worth of software?

I use a combination of apps to achieve one device to rule them all. Specific for offroad:

-MotionX GPS HD
-Avenza PDF Maps (all USGS Topo's)
-Topo Maps
-ScenicMapW (they have 3 or 4, W denotes West)

Click my sig for more iPad related stuff.
 
RobRed said:
How about an iPad 3G with a rugged case and $20 worth of software?

I use a combination of apps to achieve one device to rule them all. Specific for offroad:

-MotionX GPS HD
-Avenza PDF Maps (all USGS Topo's)
-Topo Maps
-ScenicMapW (they have 3 or 4, W denotes West)

Click my sig for more iPad related stuff.
Click to expand...

Not at all opposed to that, I'll read up on them some more first. I tried a couple gps maps on my iPhone and wasn't impressed with the tracking or the very, very small map sizes. My biggest doubt is how well the gps functions out of cell range. My phone seemed to rely heavily on tower triangulation.
 
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