Difficulty starting

[eatSleepWoof]

Installed a new, OEM Toyota Group 27 battery last summer. Have never "killed" it, so it should be fine health-wise.

Last week or so I've been having difficulty starting. Feels just like a drained battery. I put the battery on a tender the other day and let it charge for about 18 hours; it charged to full, but still didn't start quite right. It cranks, but does so slowly.

I've also noticed that I had similar problems starting in the cold this winter, at temps of around -25C. I brushed that off to the cold, but was still surprised that such a fresh, new battery couldn't handle it.

2014 LX, sitting at about 98,000km / 60,000 miles right now. Could this be the starter going out? Seems too early at this mileage, no?

 

[RET2]

I would have the battery load tested, just because it shows full on the charger is not indicative of it's health. Of course there are the usual suspects ... all connections to include the Neg. cable to frame/engine ground and the cables. Turn on headlights then try to start, do lights dim a lot?

 

[brasskey]

Are you using the OEM terminals to connect the battery?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I would have the battery load tested, just because it shows full on the charger is not indicative of it's health. Of course there are the usual suspects ... all connections to include the Neg. cable to frame/engine ground and the cables. Turn on headlights then try to start, do lights dim a lot?

Load testing is something that crossed my mind, too. Will try to get that done in the next few days.

Headlights DO dim a lot, as do interior lights. More so than "normal," I'd say.

Are you using the OEM terminals to connect the battery?

All OEM terminals and wiring. A fair bit of aftermarket electrical installed, but nothing new (for at least a year) that would introduce a sudden parasitic drain.

 

[RET2]

Dimming lights are indicative of a battery going south.

 

[CharlieS]

I'm with RET2.

I'd look into a corroded battery connection creating resistance. Remove the battery post terminals, clean the posts and inside of the terminals mechanically (they make an inexpensive battery wire brush tool specifically for this), reinstall and make sure your terminals are clamped tight, and that the wires attached to the terminals are torqued tight. It won't hurt anything and is quick/easy to do at virtually no cost.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I did see some corrosion on the terminals, but it didn't seem big enough to make any difference. Will clean it out in any case!

 

[RET2]

I did see some corrosion on the terminals, but it didn't seem big enough to make any difference. Will clean it out in any case!

So now you tell us? Sometimes it's what you can't see on the contact area of terminals that will cause you grief.

 

[Sandroad]

I did see some corrosion on the terminals, but it didn't seem big enough to make any difference. Will clean it out in any case!

It is almost for sure this. Any visible corrosion is a sign of a bad connection.

 

[bloc]

Not many people know that battery terminals are tapered, and the clamps have a limit on how far they can compress down. This means that if they aren't spread open, pressed all the way on, then tightened, the clamp can bottom out before it really grips the terminal and makes a good connection. This poor connection can contribute to carbon and corrosion buildup leading to eventual issues starting even if nothing else changes.

I'd definitely clean up any corrosion with your favorite soda, rinse with clean water then dry, back the nut all the way out, open the clamp, press it on.. then tighten. It doesn't take much torque if the clamp is in the right spot. But that terminal shouldn't move around on the battery at all.

Plus all of the above about a load test etc.

Starter going out is plausible, but shouldn't dim your headlights any more than normal, and isn't the common mode of failure for our starters. Usually they just go *click* and refuse to turn at all because it's the solenoid not the motor itself.

 

[TeCKis300]

I did see some corrosion on the terminals, but it didn't seem big enough to make any difference. Will clean it out in any case!

Corrosion in and of itself on the terminals can be indicative of the battery failing, as it is gassing off for some reason. Can you recall whether it was on the positive or negative side?

I would take the easy button and replace the battery. It's likely under warranty still and would be a good elimination before chasing things deeper. It wouldn't be the first time a battery fails prematurely, damage from possibly even before you took delivery of it.

 

[Sandroad]

Not many people know that battery terminals are tapered, and the clamps have a limit on how far they can compress down. This means that if they aren't spread open, pressed all the way on, then tightened, the clamp can bottom out before it really grips the terminal and makes a good connection. This poor connection can contribute to carbon and corrosion buildup leading to eventual issues starting even if nothing else changes.

I'd definitely clean up any corrosion with your favorite soda, rinse with clean water then dry, back the nut all the way out, open the clamp, press it on.. then tighten. It doesn't take much torque if the clamp is in the right spot. But that terminal shouldn't move around on the battery at all.

Plus all of the above about a load test etc.

Starter going out is plausible, but shouldn't dim your headlights any more than normal, and isn't the common mode of failure for our starters. Usually they just go *click* and refuse to turn at all because it's the solenoid not the motor itself.

Hopefully not using this as the favorite soda.

 

[CharlieS]

I've used vinegar, neutralized with baking soda, flushed with lots of plain water.

And chased by a cold beer for me. lol

I'd still recommend mechanical cleaning with a battery post and terminal brush.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Great point about tapered battery posts, @bloc.

I cleaned the terminals and posts last night. Corrosion was worse inside the terminals than I had thought, but not nearly as bad as I've seen before both with an older battery in this LX, and other vehicles.

Water and baking soda did miracles for the corrosion. Mechanical cleaning helped further, but I still couldn't get the inside of the terminals looking as nice as new ones. Might end up replacing them at some point.

Cleaned:

Unfortunately this did not solve the issue. The truck might have started starting a tad bit easier, but still didn't feel/sound right. Took it to a battery shop this afternoon for a load test and they immediately said that I've got a dead cell in the battery. Went to the Toyota dealership (where I bought it), but I wasn't in their system and I couldn't find my receipt, so I ended up paying for a new OEM battery. They did give me a 25% off, so that was nice.

Back to starting properly with a new battery. Simple enough.

 

[RET2]

Can't you just wait till we're all dependent on the little electrical gremlins?

 

[RET2]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Great point about tapered battery posts, @bloc.

I cleaned the terminals and posts last night. Corrosion was worse inside the terminals than I had thought, but not nearly as bad as I've seen before both with an older battery in this LX, and other vehicles.

Water and baking soda did miracles for the corrosion. Mechanical cleaning helped further, but I still couldn't get the inside of the terminals looking as nice as new ones. Might end up replacing them at some point.

Cleaned:

Unfortunately this did not solve the issue. The truck might have started starting a tad bit easier, but still didn't feel/sound right. Took it to a battery shop this afternoon for a load test and they immediately said that I've got a dead cell in the battery. Went to the Toyota dealership (where I bought it), but I wasn't in their system and I couldn't find my receipt, so I ended up paying for a new OEM battery. They did give me a 25% off, so that was nice.

Back to starting properly with a new battery. Simple enough.

I've suffered from the missing receipt before and now whenever I get tire or battery work I keep the receipt in the glove box.di-electric grease on terminals can help prevent corrosion but as @TeCKis300 300 says which terminal is corroding can trouble shoot problems.

 

[bloc]

The battery terminal brush @CharlieS mentioned would make short work of the inside of that clamp.

Negative terminal 90982-06059 about $25 online
Positive 82675-60020 About $10

I'd replace them, as whatever the silver coating toyota applies helps prevent corrosion and with so much of it missing on yours they'll just corrode again.

We are fortunate that both of ours unbolt from the relevant cables, instead of the negative being an assembly within a harness down to the block.

In the second picture above, the right terminal is perfect, structurally. The left one has been over-tightened and possibly pried open in the past. The faces that the bolt tightens should be flat and parallel, not convex. All of this adds up to the clamp bolt not effectively letting the terminal grip the post. As I said earlier if everything is shaped correctly and clean they should need very little torque to be rock-solid tight on the post.

@eatSleepWoof if you end up replacing them getting some detailed side-by-side pictures of the bad terminal compared to a new one could be a useful PSA thread for people. Not many of us deal with battery or start issues often, but this is baseline stuff that can contribute to problems on a rig down the line. Having a good searchable thread with images would be great for people with less experience on what these are supposed to look like.

 

[pvchaitanya]

TLDR- Test it with a fully charged loaner battery or friend's or wife's car battery.

I had a similar story with my previous vehicle (highlander). Its old battery died and replaced it with costco interstate battery which exceeds the CCA and other specs of factory battery. After 2 weeks it lost it charge. Thought it was a defective battery and exchanged it with same model battery (this battery exceeds all the spec of factory).
Another 3 weeks, same issue. I was thinking I am having starter, alternator, faulty electric circuitry etc.

Gave another try with walmart everstart battery and car didn't have problem again.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I've suffered from the missing receipt before and now whenever I get tire or battery work I keep the receipt in the glove box.di-electric grease on terminals can help prevent corrosion but as @TeCKis300 300 says which terminal is corroding can trouble shoot problems.

I've got a cabinet in my office with an "LX Maintenance" file, but somehow missed putting the original battery receipt there. The new one is safely filed away now!

Di-electric grease is a good idea; just ordered some.

In my case both terminals had corrosion on them.

The battery terminal brush @CharlieS mentioned would make short work of the inside of that clamp.

Negative terminal 90982-06059 about $25 online
Positive 82675-60020 About $10

I'd replace them, as whatever the silver coating toyota applies helps prevent corrosion and with so much of it missing on yours they'll just corrode again.

We are fortunate that both of ours unbolt from the relevant cables, instead of the negative being an assembly within a harness down to the block.

In the second picture above, the right terminal is perfect, structurally. The left one has been over-tightened and possibly pried open in the past. The faces that the bolt tightens should be flat and parallel, not convex. All of this adds up to the clamp bolt not effectively letting the terminal grip the post. As I said earlier if everything is shaped correctly and clean they should need very little torque to be rock-solid tight on the post.

@eatSleepWoof if you end up replacing them getting some detailed side-by-side pictures of the bad terminal compared to a new one could be a useful PSA thread for people. Not many of us deal with battery or start issues often, but this is baseline stuff that can contribute to problems on a rig down the line. Having a good searchable thread with images would be great for people with less experience on what these are supposed to look like.

Spot on. I'm definitely guilty of both over-tightening and prying to get them open. Thanks for the part numbers, will call the dealer tomorrow to order both.

 

[TeCKis300]

Glad you got her sorted!

Batteries in good health generally won't show much corrosion. It's an early indication something is wrong, causing off-gassing, that then creates the corrosion at the terminals.