Differance between 3BII, 4B engine (1 Viewer)

[Max]

The injector pressure will almost certainly be different between the 4B and 14B pump. Not sure one will work on the other. IDI and DI are quite different.

Regarding the electronics; you might be able to just ignore the ECM. It's possible it's just monitoring the engine to control emissions equipment like EGR etc. For example the Hilux 2LT-II engine is a mechanical injection motor, but has a small ECM with a bunch of sensors on the motor just for controlling emissions. All that emissions stuff can be removed and the motor will run just fine.

Can you take some pictures of the motor and post them here?

Now I had no idea that the injection pressures were different, I will have to check that now, thanks for that.

I'm adding a few pics, Of the pump itself and of the engine already in place.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

That looks like a mechanical injection pump to me. Although it does have a throttle position sensor, and what looks like an electric cold start advance. The other connector is the fuel shut off solenoid. I think these are all probably just for emissions control or maybe to control the cold start advance. Can you post up a picture of the injection pump part number plate?

 

[Max]

That looks like a mechanical injection pump to me. Although it does have a throttle position sensor, and what looks like an electric cold start advance. The other connector is the fuel shut off solenoid. I think these are all probably just for emissions control or maybe to control the cold start advance. Can you post up a picture of the injection pump part number plate?

There is NO number plate on the pump on the first two pics you can see the two holes where it used to be, so that makes it harder. I know the engine runs, just not sure if it will actually perform well or if it will give all of its power.

The electric cold start advance that you mention should be the one in the bottom of the pump right? do you know how it works? voltages and so on? (it came from a 24V truck)

Tomorrow with light will get some pics to where the other connector goes (the one with the fuel shut solenoid has another two wires)
The TPS I had figured but not the fuel advance.

Probably one of the other that is together with the fuel cut solenoid is Tach signal.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Hey Max, did you get your 4B running?

The lower sensor on the pump is a timing advance module, as said above, but I think it is more complex than just for emissions control on startup. That is usually done on the port above it with an ACSD (thermo wax) which just advances the roller ring directly. You can just take it off and replace with pieces from a similar pump, though you'll probably need to get a diesel specialist to check the injection advance and set it (fully manual pumps have a threaded stud and nut to set injection advance by tensioning a spring in that lower bore which dictates the rate of injection advance as internal pump pressure increases - i.e. with engine load).

The other thing I think you can just ignore or take off.

Thanks for sharing the 4B with us: I see it has a dual row crank pulley like a 14/15B. Does it have an AC compressor bracket? I would be very interested to see it if so, for planning my 3Bii to 15B-FT conversion.

Thanks

 

[leonelcanut]

Hi all, avid reader here, first time I ask something though....sort of realted to this thread....have a BJ42 from 1984 with a 3B engine. As I need to overhaul the engine was wondering if with minor modifications you could put a 14B or 14BT head on top of the stock 3B block...is that crazy? scuse my ignorance.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Hi all, avid reader here, first time I ask something though....sort of realted to this thread....have a BJ42 from 1984 with a 3B engine. As I need to overhaul the engine was wondering if with minor modifications you could put a 14B or 14BT head on top of the stock 3B block...is that crazy? scuse my ignorance.View attachment 2544346

Piston designs are totally different between indirect injection engines (e.g. 3B) and direct injection engine (e.g. 14B) so the compression ratio would be way off. Bolt pattern is also different I believe.

A definite no.

 

[leonelcanut]

Thanks for the quick answer! Since I cannot change the block what would you suggest I do to turn this 3B into an engine that gives me a bit more power? Thanks again

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Thanks for the quick answer! Since I cannot change the block what would you suggest I do to turn this 3B into an engine that gives me a bit more power? Thanks again

Some people turbo the 3B but you're cutting short its lifespan by doing so. Indirect injection engines don't really handle forced induction very well from what I see, even factory turbo engines like the 2L-T and 1KZ-T are weak.

 

[Greek Cruiserhead]

Hi Max, I hope you' re doing well in Chile!
I wonder too, how did your 4B swap turn out.

PS. I take this engine into account for my BJ45 pickup, as I have access to a 4B engine (direct import from Japan)...

 

[Greek Cruiserhead]

These trucks are the source for the venerable 4B.
3,7 litres engine, 98bhp, 24 Nm of torque (like the 2H)...
From time to time one can get such a engine, here in Greece, for some 3.500-4.000 euros/usd (direct import from Japan).

 

[Obando44M]

I'm Currently installing a 4B in a FJ45 soft top.

it's a 3.7 instead of a 3.4 (3B) Having to deal with all the wiring (it's got an ECU which controls all the environmental crap) it does run, but I want it to run with all its power.

hey rosco, where did you get parts for the 4b 3.7?

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

ey rosco, where did you get parts for the 4b 3.7?

The person you are quoting is not Rosco and has not logged in for more than five years.

Because the 4B was only sold in Japan, I have never seen 4B-specific parts available. You can buy a complete engine here: [Used]4B Engine TOYOTA Dyna 1999 KK-BU346 190005C330 - BE FORWARD Auto Parts - https://autoparts.beforward.jp/detail/Engine---Components/Engines/PA110301240/?buynow=1

I have bought from this company before and was very happy with the quality of parts I received.

 

[GilaMonsterMoto]

These trucks are the source for the venerable 4B.
3,7 litres engine, 98bhp, 24 Nm of torque (like the 2H)...
From time to time one can get such a engine, here in Greece, for some 3.500-4.000 euros/usd (direct import from Japan).

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Wanted to add to this thread that the 4B also came in the Toyota "Quick Delivery" truck in the Japanese Domestic Market. That's how I found this thread exploring the mysterious 4B engine as I hadn't heard of it either. I thought only the 14B existed as an evolution in the B engine line up. I'm fascinated by these B engines as I have a few LandCruisers with 13B-T engines in them, and a ToyoAce camper with 15BF engine, and have dreamed of doing a 15BF-T engine swap. So when I peruse Japanese auctions and see any "B" model trucks I look up their build specs. This morning I found a "BU280K" Toyota Quick Delivery truck for sale in Japan, and to satisfy my curiosity I searched its build specs. Sure enough it has a 4B engine in it.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Wanted to add to this thread that the 4B also came in the Toyota "Quick Delivery" truck in the Japanese Domestic Market. That's how I found this thread exploring the mysterious 4B engine as I hadn't heard of it either. I thought only the 14B existed as an evolution in the B engine line up. I'm fascinated by these B engines as I have a few LandCruisers with 13B-T engines in them, and a ToyoAce camper with 15BF engine, and have dreamed of doing a 15BF-T engine swap. So when I peruse Japanese auctions and see any "B" model trucks I look up their build specs. This morning I found a "BU280K" Toyota Quick Delivery truck for sale in Japan, and to satisfy my curiosity I searched its build specs. Sure enough it has a 4B engine in it.

Its an odd engine. It was released in 1999 I think, long after the 14B, and came about to replace the 3B. So you could look at it as a devolution of the 14B, or a development of the 3B. They were only sold in Japan and came with a strange semi-electronically controlled fuel injection pump. I read that they are specifically designed as low emission vehicles for urban areas. I'm not sure why they chose to keep the IDI technology, whether it was just to keep costs down or whether the emissions regulations favoured the IDI engine (which I understand typically have more soot but less NOx than DI engines).

I too am a big fan of the B engines - while other Land Cruiser engines like the F and H Series are long gone, the B engines are still being made. I am coming to the end of a rebuild and engine swap replacing the 3BII engine from my 1989 BJ60 with a basically identical looking 15B-T (8 valve version of the 16 valve 15B-FT). Toyota have just started putting 4 cylinder engines back in HD Land Cruisers and to me it's a shame they never used the 14B-T or 15B-FT in a Land Cruiser. It would have fitted well in the 70 Series and in my opinion would have been a better base spec engine in the 80 Series than the 1HZ. So I'm building the Land Cruiser which in my mind Toyota 'should' have made - a 4.1 litre 4 cylinder direct injection, fully mechanical turbo diesel with roughly 1HD-T output but (hopefully) four cylinder economy.

 

[GilaMonsterMoto]

Its an odd engine. It was released in 1999 I think, long after the 14B, and came about to replace the 3B. So you could look at it as a devolution of the 14B, or a development of the 3B. They were only sold in Japan and came with a strange semi-electronically controlled fuel injection pump. I read that they are specifically designed as low emission vehicles for urban areas. I'm not sure why they chose to keep the IDI technology, whether it was just to keep costs down or whether the emissions regulations favoured the IDI engine (which I understand typically have more soot but less NOx than DI engines).

I too am a big fan of the B engines - while other Land Cruiser engines like the F and H Series are long gone, the B engines are still being made. I am coming to the end of a rebuild and engine swap replacing the 3BII engine from my 1989 BJ60 with a basically identical looking 15B-T (8 valve version of the 16 valve 15B-FT). Toyota have just started putting 4 cylinder engines back in HD Land Cruisers and to me it's a shame they never used the 14B-T or 15B-FT in a Land Cruiser. It would have fitted well in the 70 Series and in my opinion would have been a better base spec engine in the 80 Series than the 1HZ. So I'm building the Land Cruiser which in my mind Toyota 'should' have made - a 4.1 litre 4 cylinder direct injection, fully mechanical turbo diesel with roughly 1HD-T output but (hopefully) four cylinder economy.

I’m right there with you in feeling like the 15BF-T and other evolutions of the B engines make perfect sense for the 70 series and 80 series trucks. I have a HZJ77 5 speed with lockers and the only thing I dislike about it is the 1HZ engine. It’s a turd-especially at altitude (I live at 7,000 feet in the southern Rocky Mountains). It needs a 15BF-T. That’s my goal for it-do a 15BF-T swap.

 

[GilaMonsterMoto]

Its an odd engine. It was released in 1999 I think, long after the 14B, and came about to replace the 3B. So you could look at it as a devolution of the 14B, or a development of the 3B. They were only sold in Japan and came with a strange semi-electronically controlled fuel injection pump. I read that they are specifically designed as low emission vehicles for urban areas. I'm not sure why they chose to keep the IDI technology, whether it was just to keep costs down or whether the emissions regulations favoured the IDI engine (which I understand typically have more soot but less NOx than DI engines).

I too am a big fan of the B engines - while other Land Cruiser engines like the F and H Series are long gone, the B engines are still being made. I am coming to the end of a rebuild and engine swap replacing the 3BII engine from my 1989 BJ60 with a basically identical looking 15B-T (8 valve version of the 16 valve 15B-FT). Toyota have just started putting 4 cylinder engines back in HD Land Cruisers and to me it's a shame they never used the 14B-T or 15B-FT in a Land Cruiser. It would have fitted well in the 70 Series and in my opinion would have been a better base spec engine in the 80 Series than the 1HZ. So I'm building the Land Cruiser which in my mind Toyota 'should' have made - a 4.1 litre 4 cylinder direct injection, fully mechanical turbo diesel with roughly 1HD-T output but (hopefully) four cylinder economy.

Its an odd engine. It was released in 1999 I think, long after the 14B, and came about to replace the 3B. So you could look at it as a devolution of the 14B, or a development of the 3B. They were only sold in Japan and came with a strange semi-electronically controlled fuel injection pump. I read that they are specifically designed as low emission vehicles for urban areas. I'm not sure why they chose to keep the IDI technology, whether it was just to keep costs down or whether the emissions regulations favoured the IDI engine (which I understand typically have more soot but less NOx than DI engines).

I too am a big fan of the B engines - while other Land Cruiser engines like the F and H Series are long gone, the B engines are still being made. I am coming to the end of a rebuild and engine swap replacing the 3BII engine from my 1989 BJ60 with a basically identical looking 15B-T (8 valve version of the 16 valve 15B-FT). Toyota have just started putting 4 cylinder engines back in HD Land Cruisers and to me it's a shame they never used the 14B-T or 15B-FT in a Land Cruiser. It would have fitted well in the 70 Series and in my opinion would have been a better base spec engine in the 80 Series than the 1HZ. So I'm building the Land Cruiser which in my mind Toyota 'should' have made - a 4.1 litre 4 cylinder direct injection, fully mechanical turbo diesel with roughly 1HD-T output but (hopefully) four cylinder economy.

Also, I suspect you’re absolutely correct about the “why” of the 4B engine-costs and simplicity. And somehow they managed to clean it up enough despite the IDI low tech design. Probably really simple and cheap to rebuild in-frame.

 

[Greek Cruiserhead]

It seems that there is another JDM donor for these engines, e.g. this 2004 Toyo Dyna/Hino minibus...

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

I think there were two platforms, the Quick Delivery/Urban (which gets an interesting Wikipedia page):

And the Dyna/ToyoAce. I think the Dyna and Toyoace were the same thing, just available from different dealers, and came as a single cab or double cab truck with single or dual rear wheels, or even a Hiace-like van as shown in the previous post.