Diff swap out, a couple of questions
- Thread starter CharlieS
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CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #22
Some thoughts over coffee before I jump back into this.
This is a job worth paying a shop to do if you're not a very committed DIYer. Not hard, just time consuming. I'll get it done, but I take too long and move way too slowly. I get distracted with searching for the right tool or a part, stop for a chat with a family member, etc. I haven't been tracking myself, but I probably have 8 hours of my labor into it and still have another three or four. A shop could probably do this in half the time.
I should have used my lift instead of jackstands. I didn't think I'd have room to work on the rear axle because my lift is close to the wall (3 feet), but the way I eventually did the rear, I would have had plenty of room. It would have been a ton easier on my body too.
The little low rise transmission lift from harbor freight works well for this job. I've had this one for years and it got a workout this weekend. Tip for using it with a lift (if you don't have a dedicated tall transmission jack) - remove the wheels and put it on a hydraulic lift table to get additional height. I've used it like this to pull and install transmissions (on both my low rise maxjax lift and on a four post lift).
Rear diff - the swaybar gets in the way of removal and installation. I loosened the bolts where it mounts to the axle, and that worked, but barely. I'd take it off the mounts next time. It'd save hassle and frustration.
Note the notches on the inside circumference of the diff. They are where the ring gear needs to be as you insert it into the housing. Obvious, yes, but worth observing.
I was able to do both the front and rear removal without taking the axles all the way out. There are smarter and more elegant ways to do this, but this approach let me not muck with removing any of the brake, ebrake, remove brake lines, etc. I did remove all bolts that hold the hard line to the axle, as well as the one bolt that attaches the ebrake cable to the frame to get more extension. I put a long socket in between the hub and axle to keep the axle extended. This gave me the space I needed (pullled the axle out of the diff splines).
Kroil. If you live in rust country, buy it and use it. In particular, I never would have gotten the four nuts holding the rear hub without it. I buy the liquid and use a small squeeze bottle with an applicator tip to get it exactly where I want it. Spray cans are okay, but they spray product everywhere.
The front diff also came out without taking the axles off. I used some specialty prying tools made for the job to pop the inner CV out. I got these tools after seeing them here a while ago. That made it easy and drama free. Then I undid and removed the two large bolts on the lower ball joint bridge. That let me pivot the upright enough that I could remove them from the diff. Passenger side came out first (there was some residual oil in the extension shaft that came out at that time), then the driver's side. From there, it was a game of reverse tetris to remove it, tip, tilt, angle - it comes out.
This was a perfect time to grease my u-joints and axles. Have at it on the u-joints, but don't go overboard with the axles... Access is as good as it is going to get, and everything rotates freely (even though rig is in park).
Don't forget to replace the c-clips on the inner CV shaft on the front axles. I purchased two sets by mistake (4 total), so I have some for spares.
Permatex gear oil rtv seems like it is perfect for the mating surface between the front clamshell and the extension tube (in place of Toyota FIPG). Thanks for the recommendation.
The FSM calls for replacing the extension mounting bolts, but searching 'mud, people often don't. Kurt and team don't on Monica, and that is proof enough for me. I didn't replace them.
Have brakleen on hand. But don't breathe a lung full of it while under the car cleaning your rear diff. It is unpleasant. Hopefully it doesn't give me lung cancer.
This morning I need to tetris the front diff in, install it, tighten and torque the axle bolts; then make sure I have assembled everything correctly and recheck torque on everything else I've touched.
I still haven't found my drain and fill plug gaskets, so it's off to the dealer in the morning in my wife's car to get them before I torque the plugs and refill the diffs.
I may post a separate thread about wiring. I am going to hook these to my switchpros, but I don't know if I need to keep the relays, and just use the switchpros as a trigger. Or, can the integrated relay within the switchpros replace the eaton relay and just wire the locker power wire direct to the switchpros output (removing the eaton relay)? It'd be a lot cleaner of an install if I can eliminate their relay harness.
This is a job worth paying a shop to do if you're not a very committed DIYer. Not hard, just time consuming. I'll get it done, but I take too long and move way too slowly. I get distracted with searching for the right tool or a part, stop for a chat with a family member, etc. I haven't been tracking myself, but I probably have 8 hours of my labor into it and still have another three or four. A shop could probably do this in half the time.
I should have used my lift instead of jackstands. I didn't think I'd have room to work on the rear axle because my lift is close to the wall (3 feet), but the way I eventually did the rear, I would have had plenty of room. It would have been a ton easier on my body too.
The little low rise transmission lift from harbor freight works well for this job. I've had this one for years and it got a workout this weekend. Tip for using it with a lift (if you don't have a dedicated tall transmission jack) - remove the wheels and put it on a hydraulic lift table to get additional height. I've used it like this to pull and install transmissions (on both my low rise maxjax lift and on a four post lift).
Rear diff - the swaybar gets in the way of removal and installation. I loosened the bolts where it mounts to the axle, and that worked, but barely. I'd take it off the mounts next time. It'd save hassle and frustration.
Note the notches on the inside circumference of the diff. They are where the ring gear needs to be as you insert it into the housing. Obvious, yes, but worth observing.
I was able to do both the front and rear removal without taking the axles all the way out. There are smarter and more elegant ways to do this, but this approach let me not muck with removing any of the brake, ebrake, remove brake lines, etc. I did remove all bolts that hold the hard line to the axle, as well as the one bolt that attaches the ebrake cable to the frame to get more extension. I put a long socket in between the hub and axle to keep the axle extended. This gave me the space I needed (pullled the axle out of the diff splines).
Kroil. If you live in rust country, buy it and use it. In particular, I never would have gotten the four nuts holding the rear hub without it. I buy the liquid and use a small squeeze bottle with an applicator tip to get it exactly where I want it. Spray cans are okay, but they spray product everywhere.
The front diff also came out without taking the axles off. I used some specialty prying tools made for the job to pop the inner CV out. I got these tools after seeing them here a while ago. That made it easy and drama free. Then I undid and removed the two large bolts on the lower ball joint bridge. That let me pivot the upright enough that I could remove them from the diff. Passenger side came out first (there was some residual oil in the extension shaft that came out at that time), then the driver's side. From there, it was a game of reverse tetris to remove it, tip, tilt, angle - it comes out.
This was a perfect time to grease my u-joints and axles. Have at it on the u-joints, but don't go overboard with the axles... Access is as good as it is going to get, and everything rotates freely (even though rig is in park).
Don't forget to replace the c-clips on the inner CV shaft on the front axles. I purchased two sets by mistake (4 total), so I have some for spares.
Permatex gear oil rtv seems like it is perfect for the mating surface between the front clamshell and the extension tube (in place of Toyota FIPG). Thanks for the recommendation.
The FSM calls for replacing the extension mounting bolts, but searching 'mud, people often don't. Kurt and team don't on Monica, and that is proof enough for me. I didn't replace them.
Have brakleen on hand. But don't breathe a lung full of it while under the car cleaning your rear diff. It is unpleasant. Hopefully it doesn't give me lung cancer.
This morning I need to tetris the front diff in, install it, tighten and torque the axle bolts; then make sure I have assembled everything correctly and recheck torque on everything else I've touched.
I still haven't found my drain and fill plug gaskets, so it's off to the dealer in the morning in my wife's car to get them before I torque the plugs and refill the diffs.
I may post a separate thread about wiring. I am going to hook these to my switchpros, but I don't know if I need to keep the relays, and just use the switchpros as a trigger. Or, can the integrated relay within the switchpros replace the eaton relay and just wire the locker power wire direct to the switchpros output (removing the eaton relay)? It'd be a lot cleaner of an install if I can eliminate their relay harness.
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Some thoughts over coffee before I jump back into this.
This is a job worth paying a shop to do if you're not a very committed DIYer. Not hard, just time consuming. I'll get it done, but I take too long and move way too slowly. I get distracted with searching for the right tool or a part, stop for a chat with a family member, etc. I haven't been tracking myself, but I probably have 8 hours of my labor into it and still have another three or four. A shop could probably do this in half the time.
I should have used my lift instead of jackstands. I didn't think I'd have room to work on the rear axle because my lift is close to the wall (3 feet), but the way I eventually did the rear, I would have had plenty of room. It would have been a ton easier on my body too.
The little low rise transmission lift from harbor freight works well for this job. I've had this one for years and it got a workout this weekend. Tip for using it with a lift (if you don't have a dedicated tall transmission jack) - remove the wheels and put it on a hydraulic lift table to get additional height. I've used it like this to pull and install transmissions (on both my low rise maxjax lift and on a four post lift).
Rear diff - the swaybar gets in the way of removal and installation. I loosened the bolts where it mounts to the axle, and that worked, but barely. I'd take it off the mounts next time. It'd save hassle and frustration.
Note the notches on the inside circumference of the diff. They are where the ring gear needs to be as you insert it into the housing. Obvious, yes, but worth observing.
I was able to do both the front and rear removal without taking the axles all the way out. There are smarter and more elegant ways to do this, but this approach let me not muck with removing any of the brake, ebrake, remove brake lines, etc. I did remove all bolts that hold the hard line to the axle, as well as the one bolt that attaches the ebrake cable to the frame to get more extension. I put a long socket in between the hub and axle to keep the axle extended. This gave me the space I needed (pullled the axle out of the diff splines).
Kroil. If you live in rust country, buy it and use it. In particular, I never would have gotten the four nuts holding the rear hub without it. I buy the liquid and use a small squeeze bottle with an applicator tip to get it exactly where I want it. Spray cans are okay, but they spray product everywhere.
The front diff also came out without taking the axles off. I used some specialty prying tools made for the job to pop the inner CV out. I got these tools after seeing them here a while ago. That made it easy and drama free. Then I undid and removed the two large bolts on the lower ball joint bridge. That let me pivot the upright enough that I could remove them from the diff. Passenger side came out first (there was some residual oil in the extension shaft that came out at that time), then the driver's side. From there, it was a game of reverse tetris to remove it, tip, tilt, angle - it comes out.
This was a perfect time to grease my u-joints and axles. Have at it on the u-joints, but don't go overboard with the axles... Access is as good as it is going to get, and everything rotates freely (even though rig is in park).
Don't forget to replace the c-clips on the inner CV shaft on the front axles. I purchased two sets by mistake (4 total), so I have some for spares.
Permatex gear oil rtv seems like it is perfect for the mating surface between the front clamshell and the extension tube (in place of Toyota FIPG). Thanks for the recommendation.
The FSM calls for replacing the extension mounting bolts, but searching 'mud, people often don't. Kurt and team don't on Monica, and that is proof enough for me. I didn't replace them.
Have brakleen on hand. But don't breathe a lung full of it while under the car cleaning your rear diff. It is unpleasant. Hopefully it doesn't give me lung cancer.
This morning I need to tetris the front diff in, install it, tighten and torque the axle bolts; then make sure I have assembled everything correctly and recheck torque on everything else I've touched.
I still haven't found my drain and fill plug gaskets, so it's off to the dealer in the morning in my wife's car to get them before I torque the plugs and refill the diffs.
I may post a separate thread about wiring. I am going to hook these to my switchpros, but I don't know if I need to keep the relays, and just use the switchpros as a trigger. Or, can the integrated relay within the switchpros replace the eaton relay and just wire the locker power wire direct to the switchpros output (removing the eaton relay)? It'd be a lot cleaner of an install if I can eliminate their relay harness.
Nicely done. Even with a garage full of tools as you obviously have, it's a big job! On physically big and heavy components! The stuff I'm used to working with on sports cars are like toy components in comparison.
Are you looking to do a front diff drop? I can't get out of my mind that it could be a potential weakness on extended travel front shocks.
Regarding SwitchPros and relay - I debated this in my install too. Landed in eliminating the Eaton relay and going straight power from SwitchPros. The Eaton setup uses a run of the mill interior switch which is why a relay is necessary in it's stock wiring config. Per Eaton, the elockers draw 5-10 amps. The SwitchPros already incorporates high power relay circuits easily capable of this load. Snipped all the goodies off the Eaton harness only keeping the direct wire run.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks for the reply.
Yeah, great point. The 200 series diff weighs what the transmission did on the sportscars I used to own. This isn't a job for someone who can't handle moving some mass around.
I haven't looked into a diff drop, but perhaps I should. I wonder if it'd interfere with my budbuit skids... Seems like they are millimeters away from the bottom of the mounts. I'll have to check.
Great to know you went straight to the switchpros and eliminated the relay. I feel a lot better about doing the same. I was just worried that I was missing something, and pruning the factory harness would be a costly mistake.
Yeah, great point. The 200 series diff weighs what the transmission did on the sportscars I used to own. This isn't a job for someone who can't handle moving some mass around.
I haven't looked into a diff drop, but perhaps I should. I wonder if it'd interfere with my budbuit skids... Seems like they are millimeters away from the bottom of the mounts. I'll have to check.
Great to know you went straight to the switchpros and eliminated the relay. I feel a lot better about doing the same. I was just worried that I was missing something, and pruning the factory harness would be a costly mistake.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #25
The tools I mentioned for popping the inner cv out:
Off label use keeping the inner CVs out if the way:
Front diff installed:
Tech tip:
Install the driver side rear transmission mount bracket very loosely, so you can align the mounting bolt, then tighten the nut and bolt to lock it into place.
Off label use keeping the inner CVs out if the way:
Front diff installed:
Tech tip:
Install the driver side rear transmission mount bracket very loosely, so you can align the mounting bolt, then tighten the nut and bolt to lock it into place.
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CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #26
I've read a couple of times that people have had trouble inserting the pins into the connector on the diff side.
Tip one, put the connector on before installing the diff.
Tip two, make sure the metal tab on the pin is aligned with the side that locks it in.
Tip three, remove the internal purple locking part. I pushed it out with a dental pick from the back. Insert the pins until they click. Put the purple locking tab back in until it clicks. Bob's your uncle.
Tip one, put the connector on before installing the diff.
Tip two, make sure the metal tab on the pin is aligned with the side that locks it in.
Tip three, remove the internal purple locking part. I pushed it out with a dental pick from the back. Insert the pins until they click. Put the purple locking tab back in until it clicks. Bob's your uncle.
bloc
SILVER Star
Good stuff.
Any concerns that not replacing the oring at the ends of the rear axle housing to the bearing assembly will be an issue? Any corrosion there? My rig is pretty rust free and there was rust in that area to the point that my oring was trash as I separated it from the housing.
Any concerns that not replacing the oring at the ends of the rear axle housing to the bearing assembly will be an issue? Any corrosion there? My rig is pretty rust free and there was rust in that area to the point that my oring was trash as I separated it from the housing.
bloc
SILVER Star
Good idea.
Pulling the bearing and axle shaft is actually quite easy.. Even with having to extract the parking brake cable and disconnect the brake line (which you can just pull out of the bracket and reconnect immediately).. I can get that side apart to be looking at the seal in probably 30-45 minutes. You don't even need to drain the gear oil, just jack up the side you are working on and set it on a jack stand so it's uphill. If I remember correctly the slow but steady flow of brake fluid even prevented air ingress and made it so that bleeding that corner showed no air inclusion.
I'll be doing my driver's side axle bearing some time this spring or early summer (if the parts from Decatur toyota ever ship) and paying close attention to how quickly I can get it apart.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #30
I couldn't get the inner axles seated, so I removed them from the wheel hub. I finally got them in, but it wasn't pretty. Ratchet straps to hold the upright out of my way, circlip opening facing down, grease on the splines, larger hammer than probably appropriate.
Refilled the diffs with gear oil and things seem good. The 13$ gear oil transfer pump from advance auto parts was a POS and wasted nearly as much as it moved. Much lower quality than others I've owned. The internal seal on the piston must be useless. What a mess.
One helpful thing I found was that it was easy to fill the front diff from the drivers side wheel well. If I had planned ahead better, I would have filled them IV style with gravity. I did that with a 944 once and it was awesome.
I only need to reinstall the two lower ball joint bolts on each side and torque the axle nuts. I don't have a massive torque wrench anymore. Any shadetree tips on this that are smarter than having at them with the ugga dugga gun? I thought there was some mathy way to use a cheater bar and body weight...
Question: Do you use a bit of Red loctite on the ball joint bridge bolts? It looks like there was some on them from the factory.
Almost there...
Refilled the diffs with gear oil and things seem good. The 13$ gear oil transfer pump from advance auto parts was a POS and wasted nearly as much as it moved. Much lower quality than others I've owned. The internal seal on the piston must be useless. What a mess.
One helpful thing I found was that it was easy to fill the front diff from the drivers side wheel well. If I had planned ahead better, I would have filled them IV style with gravity. I did that with a 944 once and it was awesome.
I only need to reinstall the two lower ball joint bolts on each side and torque the axle nuts. I don't have a massive torque wrench anymore. Any shadetree tips on this that are smarter than having at them with the ugga dugga gun? I thought there was some mathy way to use a cheater bar and body weight...
Question: Do you use a bit of Red loctite on the ball joint bridge bolts? It looks like there was some on them from the factory.
Almost there...
bloc
SILVER Star
Any "ft-lb" measurement is just how much weight you need on a horizontal wrench 12" from the center of the bolt. Or, half that number 2 feet from the bolt. Pretty simple math to figure out how much weight you need a given distance..
What I would definitely try to avoid is just going ham on an impact gun. The front bearings have two opposing internal races that are held together with the tension provided by that nut. Too tight can compress the races leading to premature failure. Granted I think it would take a lot, but with an impact you never really know what you are getting.
In the future as long as the CVs are getting reinstalled into the same bearing and hub assembly with the same nut you can get really close on torque by marking then precisely matching where the nut was before you removed it.. if it all stays clean you are effectively putting it back to exactly where the factory or previous mechanic set things. Probably too late for that with yours though. Can you borrow a wrench from someone? The weight-on-cheater-pipe method is more difficult for the two downward-facing bolts on the bottom of the knuckle.. though I've rigged things up with a long cheater pipe and fish scale before.
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I weigh 170 and torqued the front axle castle nuts by body weight. I think I was 18" out from the nut standing on a pipe - I didn't bounce. Figured that was 250.
It's a 2 stage torque, don't remember what stage one was, but it's on the forum somewhere.
It's a 2 stage torque, don't remember what stage one was, but it's on the forum somewhere.
