Diesel Questions

[btfury]

I'm new here, and started a thread a while back over in the 40 series forum about BJ40s. https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/233534-bj40-questions.html#post3538136

Basically, I currently drive a lifted Jeep Cherokee with a bunch of other mods, get 16mpg at best, have always wanted a Cruiser, and just figured out that Toyota made diesel cruisers.

I'm a college student, so cost is definitely an issue, but I am thinking about selling my XJ and getting a BJ40 or BJ60 (or maybe an HJ60?). I don't do a ton of driving while at school, and most of the driving I do is highway. I typically don't go over 70 anyway, so I'm not really worried about top speed or anything... I just would like to get some opinions on whether or not a diesel cruiser is the way to go, and if so which one I should look for.

I'm fairly mechanically inclined, do most of the work on the Jeep, and would love to be able to run biodiesel or even SVO in an old cruiser.

How expensive are they to maintain? Do they make decent DDs (I drive a lifted Cherokee... not some mercedes or something, so I don't mind a harsh ride)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Expensive is a relative term ,but most of us do our own wrenching where possible to save money.
The diesel cruisers are a little bit exotic in N America so parts can be pricey as well as there maybe a waiting period.
Unless you have money to spend,the diesels at the lower end of the price range are fairly slow.
The few canadian models available mostly have high mileage and rust isssues.
The imports from Oz and NZ have varying reports about the honesty of the seller's description.
Some owners report that the base materials for Bio diesel are getting harder to obtain with many shop owners charging for it.
If it must be a DD ,then a long wheel base model like a 60 series is the go

IMO you will need a beater for the days when a part is in the mail or keep the XJ and wait until you have finished college.

 

[crushers]

70 mph in a NA diesel cruiser is not realistic.
it will be noisy, harder on fuel than at 50 mph (which is where the diesel seems to get the best highway milage)
the 60 is smoother than the 40 but still slow.

suggestion, since youa re on a tight budget then buy a civic or honda, save fuel and once your budget increases after school then buy a turbo diesel cruiser.

not saying it can not be done as a DD (i had one for decades) but a restricted budget will end up putting you into a money pit.

you wanted an honest answer, if you want me to BS yah, then "wicked idea, go for it!"

 

[amaurer]

I posted a lot in your other thread, so I'll spare you a repeat performance, however I think you can see I wasn't making this stuff up.

Because you asked about maintenance, I'll give you a first hand account of what its taken to get my BJ42 to DD status. All the other diesel tech guys can laugh at me:

• New tires - $650
• New clutch, TO/pilot bearing, pressure plate, flywheel resurfaced - $350
• New battery - $100
• Tranny/TC/Diff gear oil - $30
• F/R diff pinion seal - $15
• T/C output seals, 4wd shift seal - $15
• Rear axle rebuild - wheel bearings, oil seal, hub seals - $180
• New rear brake cylinders and shoes - $70
• Drums turned - $50
• New spring and shackle bushings - $50
• Radiator recore - $400
• New weatherstrip, all doors - $200
• New headgasket, precups, manifold gaskets - $200
• New fan belt - $20
• New clutch master cylinder - $35
• New front main seal, oil pan gasket - $45

So there is almost $2500 on top of the purchase price and thats only the stuff I wrote down. The little trips to the store for parts are the killer, I'm sure I've spent close to $4000 feeding the beastie since I got it. I'm not saying you'll need to do all of the same things, but most of these are relatively common wear/maintenance items. In my experience any time a vehicle changes owners there is a period of infant mortality when your different driving style/patterns/usage causes things that worked fine for the other guy to break down. You'll likely have many of the same issues, and some fun new ones as well.

Note that I didn't cost the countless, countless, hours spent doing this work. It has consumed 8 hours a week every week since November. You can see why doing your own labor is a must, $$$.

 

[btfury]

You know, after thinking more about it, it sounds like an HJ60 would probably be a better choice for me. From what I understand, it's better suited to highway driving than a 40 series, possibly cheaper (correct me if im wrong on that one), has more room and still can get around 25mpg. 25mpg is still about ten more mpg than I can get out of the XJ, but mileage gains aside, the biggest reason for me driving a diesel would be the ability to run biodiesel/svo.

Any idea on what I would be looking at price wise for a decent HJ60 capable of highway driving without having to put too much work into it right off the bat? Also would the HJ60 or the BJ60 be a better choice?

 

[btfury]

amaurer- Thanks for all of the info, in both this thread and the other one... I really appreciate it.

Any idea if HJ60 parts would be cheaper? (I'm assuming they wouldn't, but I honestly have no idea).

And, I'm guessing 60 series cruisers are just as mechanically simple as the 40 series?

 

[crushers]

the 60 and the 40 share a lot of similar strengths.
the HJ is still slow.
the HJ parts are just as expensive as the BJ
there are pros and cons to each.
the longer wheel base makes for a more comfortable highway ride but at the expense of more weight to haul around.
NEITHER is good for 70 mph road travel, both are decent at 55 mph/ if either is pushed to 70 mph then the fuel milage will drop to low 20s (IF the engine is in good shape)

cost for a HJ60? depends on the condition and how fast you want one. anywhere from $2500-$15,000. usually in the 5-8 range.
a BJ can range anywhere from $4K for a basket case to $30K for a nice ride to $87K for a full frame off.

why not just buy a US gasser 60 or 80, drive it for a couple years and swap a diesel in later when the funds are available? if you really need to have a Land Cruiser that is...

 

[GregFrench]

Sounds like you already have your mind made up. Get rid of the jeep and get yourself a diesel. Once you do, you will never go back to gas.
A garage is a nice thing to have if you do get a diesel cruiser. You will have all sorts of parts laying around.
people here on Mud can help you through any problem you might encounter.
60's are nice, but Have you considered a troopie?

Where to get it? Keep watching ebay. Don't pay a lot. I got mine for 8500. I have seen them go for up near the 20,000 range.

 

[canucksafari]

I'd also add that indirect injection diesels do best with having their oil changed on time - every 5,000 kms - becuase of soot loading. My oil changes with extra by-pass filter are a bit more than most people's. My cost is now down to about $80 per oil change with buying quality diesel oil in bulk and buying filters in bulk. Plan on using good oil and good filters. It may seem expensive but it is cheaper than ...

And like Crusher says, forget the 70 mph with a NA unless you have the right gearing and are going down hill with a tail wind.

I had a diesel when I was at university and loved it. It was slow as could be but would go almost anywhere. Besides a timing belt, it cost me next to nothing in repairs until I flogged it with 430,000 kms on the clock. It was an old VW diesel Rabbit. If your a student and want a diesel, then keep your eye out for a pre 92 VW diesel. They are as simple as can be and will allow you to save $ while going to school.

 

[TOBASH]

3'rd option

Find a cherokee in NZ or Europe w a diesel setup and either import it OR import the engine, tranny, fuel cell, computer(s) etc...

Then just convert your current Heep.

If you are on a budget, might be better to just build a still and make Ethanol 160-180 proof. Then spend just 1 grand to get the injection converter to allow th injectors to stay open 35% longer to accommodate Ethanol. Not that hard, and works out to $1.75 a gallon.

Best,

T

 

[deaddrift]

You know, after thinking more about it, it sounds like an HJ60 would probably be a better choice for me. From what I understand, it's better suited to highway driving than a 40 series, possibly cheaper (correct me if im wrong on that one), has more room and still can get around 25mpg. 25mpg is still about ten more mpg than I can get out of the XJ, but mileage gains aside, the biggest reason for me driving a diesel would be the ability to run biodiesel/svo.

Any idea on what I would be looking at price wise for a decent HJ60 capable of highway driving without having to put too much work into it right off the bat? Also would the HJ60 or the BJ60 be a better choice?

Just a heads up: be aware that many sellers in Canada and NZ/Aus. quote mpg in IMPERIAL gallons, which are bigger than US gallons. Bigger gallon = better "miles per gallon."

I'm getting 20-21 mpg US in my BJ60 mixed driving, with highway speeds at 100-110 km/hr or less (= 62-68 mph).

The diesel cruiser is very satisfying. Welcome!

 

[Eric Winkworth]

I've had experience with both XJ's and cruisers.... being a cruiser owner now I have a bit of a bias opinion.... but XJ's are unibody which is a huge downfall IMO... also they do have alot of little stupid things that go wrong like the pressurized coolent puke tanks cracking and crank position sensor issues that can leave you stranded but all in all the tranny's and engines are bullet proof and pretty powerful expecially if it's an AMC inline motor....

Although the XJ has superior ride due to front suspension the Land cruiser axles are insanely beefy in comparison.... the land cruisers have no little issue that leave people stranded... The older diesels are slow, but what they lack in power they make up ten fold in reliablitiy....

I wouldn't buy a cheap LC though

spend the money go through an importer do it right!!!! you'lll never look back!

 

[Dougal]

Find a cherokee in NZ or Europe w a diesel setup and either import it OR import the engine, tranny, fuel cell, computer(s) etc...

I think europe will be your ticket there. They only started importing diesel jeeps into NZ recently (like around 2003).

If anyone does want to import a vehicle from New Zealand, ask when it's last WOF was. The WOF (Warrant of Fitness) is a safety check that is done every 6 months. The vehicles I've seen on here (like Amaurers) looked like they hadn't been roadworthy for maybe 5 years.
The 40 series over here are well past their use by date as transport. The ones you find will either be offroad toys or farm trucks in various states of neglect. Well maintained vehicles owned by enthusiasts (like LostMarbles) are very rare and usually not for sale.
If you see a NZ registered vehicle for sale, it's free to look up basic history details including what date and how many km were recorded at each WOF check.

 

[amaurer]

The vehicles I've seen on here (like Amaurers) looked like they hadn't been roadworthy for maybe 5 years.

... x2 ... ::sigh::

 

[83bj60]

You know, after thinking more about it, it sounds like an HJ60 would probably be a better choice for me. From what I understand, it's better suited to highway driving than a 40 series, possibly cheaper (correct me if im wrong on that one), has more room and still can get around 25mpg. 25mpg is still about ten more mpg than I can get out of the XJ, but mileage gains aside, the biggest reason for me driving a diesel would be the ability to run biodiesel/svo.

Any idea on what I would be looking at price wise for a decent HJ60 capable of highway driving without having to put too much work into it right off the bat? Also would the HJ60 or the BJ60 be a better choice?

The HJ is a bit more fuel hungry (about 5-10%) at optimum speed than the BJ which has probably the most reliable and thriftiest 4 cylinder diesel Toyota ever made (the famous 3B) and its HP output is not much lower than the 2H in the HJ60. 25MPG (US) is a very optimistic estimate. Meaning, if you run on the highway at a steady 50-55 mph. It climbs drastically after that, actually you will probably notice that turbocharged versions are a bit thriftier at higher speeds than NA engines on the same vehicle. One advantage of these beasts is that they consume on the highway about the same empty than with 5 people and one ton of gear. But if you consistently drive at 'normal' highway speeds (65-70 or so MPH), you won't make better than 18-20 MPG (US). Plus, Diesel costs a good 25% more than gas. Think about it.

As for VO, the old BJ60 and HJ60s with their inline fuel pumps and indirect injection apparently make good VO candidates, but beware of internal coking. I would go gradual from 20% VO/Diesel mix at first then increase gradually with a separete heated VO tank. But that's just my opinion, not my experience, haven't attempted it yet.

 

[BC40]

Not sure of your location, but I'm guessing your somewhere in Canada. On the west coast anyways, there are lots of diesel cruisers on the market. Prices have come down a lot in the past couple of years. If you invest the full amount you get from you lifted xj, you should be able to find a reasonable 60 as a replacement. Look for a lower mileage truck that is being used around town as a daily driver. That way you will be able to see potential problems and test drive. The 84 and later will have 5spd and power steering. Check the frame for amount of rust. Trucks that have sat a long time will usually take a lot of money to make reliable. A BJ60 isn't fast, but it will get you around just fine. In close to stock form it will be a good step up in economy from your cherokee.