Desperately Seeking Advice - Electrical (1 Viewer)

[MisterShadyNasty]

I’m curious to know how somebody with more experience would approach a problem.

I’ve been working on my first project truck, have enjoyed the process, jobs have been rewarding relatively speaking but trying to fix electrical issues has been driving me insane.

I’d always lived with the intermittent electrical problems that were present since the truck came into my possession until there was a night driving home in the rain when things started to seem dangerous, the headlights and heater blower motor stopped working all together, the problems seemed to spread, things that were never an issue became a necessity to fix such as the tail lights, brake lights, starting issues, wipers, everything…

I’ve got enough experience to feel confident in my ability to fix this problem without giving up and already regret my decisions, please don’t give me too much of a hard time, my response was ripping the harness out, going through everything and testing for continuity while replacing sections of wire, replacing a few relays, installing a new battery, alternator, new power and ground cables, bought the kit from cruisertrash parts to replace fusible links with inline fuses, didn’t spare any expense or time, terminated everything with waterproof DT connectors, honestly expected to have a bomber solution that worked after everything got hooked back up, replaced the heater core while doing this and wrapped everything with heat shrink tubing and conduit before putting the dash back together only to discover that the problems haven’t been solved, ultimately want your advice regarding my next course of action considering how much time or money has already been spent on this…

I’m currently recharging the battery to begin more testing or troubleshooting but strongly considering ordering a painless brand or the equivalent new wiring harness or ripping my abomination out tomorrow to start over, the cost of a used harness would be comparable, could anyone convince me to test something before going nuclear again?

I’ve desmogged the truck awhile before these issues began, installed a non usa carb, have a koito headlight harness, did the green wire mod, would’ve had a better chance right now but lost my cool, chopped a lot of stuff up or ran so many new grounds and wires that my current harness might not be worth keeping.

I’d installed an entirely new suspension, every component, replaced the cooling system and rebuilt the knuckles, completed the entire list of maintenance items, there hasn’t been any other task that made me frustrated, they’ve all been very rewarding in a tangible real way.

I’ll definitely consider swapping the motor for an LS sometime in the future, there isn’t a lot of information out there about installing one of the aftermarket harnesses on a 2F, would it make any sense to go that route?

I’d be happy to get the truck running again with the most basic of accessories, what’s the most minimal solution available?

I’ve just broken up with my girlfriend which is another variable because while she was living with me there was an option to drive her new truck, she comes from means and we bought new vehicles cash from the dealership for us, but now this might have to be my daily driver and winter feels right around the corner here, that would explain my needs and why there’s a necessity, taking my time to go through the entire process took me countless hours over the past couple months, learned through my mistakes, but need a vehicle living here, the aftermarket harness seems like a more simple way to hook up the necessities before winter.

I’ve probably followed a trend set by whoever the previous owner was, there was noticeable changes or hacks, an aftermarket stereo, feel like my biggest mistake was running the new wires to predetermined locations, followed a wiring diagram while checking for continuity but probably wasn’t thorough enough to find whatever’s shorting out, there’s signs that’s still the issue having discovered only after the harness battery and everything was installed by testing some positive cables to find out there’s continuity between them and frame.

I’d really be thankful to know what you might do under these circumstances, from more of a personal perspective than anything, please, thanks in advance for your help.

J

 

[OSS]

The ground for the headlights and lots of other accessories join together in a dinky piece of crap connector (ground bus) behind the instrument panel. Then it runs a single big wire down to a bolt on the A pillar to ground to the body.

That piece of crap grounding connector behind the instrument panel, tucked behind the wiring harness, can overheat (because it is inadequate) which will compromise all the electrical contacts it holds.= electrical mayhem. I experienced it first hand.

The fix? If that connection bus looks charred, disassemble it and clean up all the connecting pins.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Man, I was going to say grounds or the fusible link being the culprit ... but you already bought my FLRK kit. Thanks for that by the way. I'm a fellow FJ60 daily driver so I feel for you. Gotta keep the truck in service and there isn't the luxury of putting it in downtime to solve an issue. I did buy a 1985 Tercel 4wd wagon as a backup vehicle this summer, but that one is just as old as my 60 and has its own problems haha.

Long shot, but there's a splice in a positive cable that I could potentially see causing your problems. It could be a multitude of things, but this will be something to check if you haven't. And it's sneaky, because it's somewhat hidden. In the original harness there's a 10awg white wire that is the alternator charge wire. It goes from the post on the back of the alternator, to the fusible link, and then to the battery, and runs inside a corrugated plastic split loom that lays on the passenger inner wheel well. Between the wheel well and the alternator is a splice, and that wire feeds the cabin fuse panel. In my FLRK instructions I say to keep the white wire ring terminal on the back of the alternator and stack my thicker red 6awg alternator charge wire ring terminal on top of it. Both the old and new have to be on the alternator post and that's because the white wire still needs to feed the cabin fuse panel. Maybe that splice has gotten loose or corroded. You'll have to peel back the corrugated split loom, then unwrap all the original electrical tape to find that splice, but it's in a 30" section so it won't be too hard to find. Of course check the tightness on that nut that holds the ring terminals on the back of the alternator while you're in there.

*****

Other random possibilities:

Corroded pins inside of plastic connectors. The corrosion can grow between pins inside the connectors that are normally insulated from one another and cause shorts and other weird issues. The rear harness connectors inside the cargo panels are especially susceptible to this because even the smallest rust hole in the rear wheel arch will let enough water in over time to start the process. I've seen that issue on countless trucks.

A wire carrying 12VDC rubbed on something, broke through the insulation, and is now occasionally shorting to ground when the truck bounces around over potholes or road debris. I think the likeliest spots for this would be the cargo panel area, where the harness goes to the back under the door sills, or possibly in the engine bay since a lot of those bounce around. I think that's less likely but still possible behind the dash.

Any aftermarket wiring is immediately suspect to me as well. That's not because I think you would have necessarily done a bad job, but just because I've seen it cause problems so many times that it comes down to statistics. Trailer plug wiring is the #1 thing I see causing problems in that respect. If you have that, remove it and follow the manual to make sure things are hooked back up properly. Remove the aftermarket stereo and cap all the wires for the time being. Look real hard at where it splices into the original wiring and make sure wires that don't belong together weren't accidentally joined. Inspect the insulation to make sure that hasn't rubbed through. Take the clamshell off the steering column and check out the bundle of wires under there. Lots of times people will splice kill switches or car alarms into the ignition and positive wiring on the column. Look at any other aftermarket stuff.

Check the ground at the back of the vehicle. It's essentially under the bottom of the tailgate, but you get to it by laying on your back under the truck by the fuel tank. It's on the back side of the boy metal directly below the tailgate, a bolt with ring terminals under it. That one gets crusty from road grime and it's worth removing the bolt and cleaning everything down to bare metal.

Perhaps this is an exceedingly rare things, but there are a couple wires that run from the bottom rear corner of the engine side cover, under the tunnel, and to the transmission/transfer case area. One is the 4wd sensor, for example. That area is hidden, prone to road grime, and the wires only have a few points where they're secured so they bounce around a lot. It's hard to check those, but doable. Also check the ground strap from the back of the transfer case to the underside of the body while you're there. If you remove that from the transfer case just remember to replace the D-shaped washer back the same way, because it keeps the intermediate shaft of the transfer case from spinning around (you'll notice the flat in the thick washer lines up with the flat on the int shaft).

*****

I would spend some serious time chasing the location where you found continuity between the frame and positive wires. Use the resistance setting on your DMM and instead of just getting a go/no-go reading (continuity) see what kind of resistance you've got there. Come back and let us know where that location is, what color wire it is, and what the resistance reading says.

Also, can you post some photos of your install on the FLRK? Especially the connection points, ring terminals, etc. That's not to be insulting, but sometimes having other folks dummy check can reveal an easily overlooked problem. We all need that from time to time.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Worse comes to worse, I would opt to get a used harness from Classic Cruisers down in Poncha Springs before getting a Painless or other aftermarket harness. Hooking one of those up would be a TON of work whereas you know where everything in the stock harness goes. Either would take some time, but the aftermarket one would be a puzzle. You could even chop up the used harness and use pieces as direct replacements for questionable areas of your harness.

For a four-hour round trip you could also maybe just go to Poncha Springs. That could look like picking up the harness yourself or having them take a look at it if they can get you on the schedule.

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

Thanks for the info everyone…

I’m inclined to order the used harness as suggested and use that as my new starting point, unfortunately, my research was correct, that ground connector was melted beyond repair upon inspection, admittedly, noticed the splice as well but most likely went about fixing things the wrong way and take responsibility for perhaps getting a little too creative…

I’ll pull my abomination harness and dive a little deeper while waiting for a used one to arrive, honestly, someone could’ve made a grave mistake before this got into my hands.

I’d be grateful to know whether using these waterproof DT deutsch pin connectors could present an issue, they came recommended, but now they’re all throughout the truck.

I’m very appreciative of your insight, will try my best not to give up and get her running again, love this truck and have been really proud of my progress thus far.

-J

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I’ll pull my harness, there might be pictures of my work available, a major problem now is that although they were labeled with the original color code, telling you what the colors of the wires are might be difficult because nearly everything in the engine bay has been replaced from the firewall outwards, there must be a problem behind the dash, that’s my best guess, more than one positive wire gives a continuity reading to ground, lots of my labels have probably worn off already and my original approach was reasonable sound but losing my s**t the other day was the biggest setback and possibly the greatest lesson of all learned.

I’ve got experience outside of working on the truck that’s electrical oriented, been working as a freelance A/V technician, video producer, understand the basics of how to send tone or run power, completed some major networking projects in the past year, converting signals or anything relative to a live production but feel like this has been an entirely different realm, thanks again for being supportive, life has been difficult and achieving success with this would really mean a lot to me.

J

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I’ve ordered a used harness from classic cruisers today, appreciate the recommendation, hopefully, repinning and using the DT connectors with this used harness will solve my problems, will try to post an update, please let me know whether you would advise against the connectors, thank you.

J

 

[CruiserTrash]

I’ve ordered a used harness from classic cruisers today, appreciate the recommendation, hopefully, repinning and using the DT connectors with this used harness will solve my problems, will try to post an update, please let me know whether you would advise against the connectors, thank you.

J

Any quality connector is going to be fine. Personally, I would choose connectors that handle the same number of wires as the original connectors though - it will make future troubleshooting easier. If you need help with something and look at somebody else’s original harness, chasing wires could be difficult if they terminate into connectors in some wildly different way. It would be much easier to say “I have the same XYZ colored wires here, it’s only the 8-way connector that looks different.” I would take that over “yeah the original 8-way connector is gone and I used two 3-way and one 2-way connector, this one’s over here, the other one is up there, etc.” And of course if you replace any wires really try to use the same color way as the original so you can still use the wiring diagrams in the manual for troubleshooting. Wire Barn and some other online stores have a multitude of color choices in automotive TXL/GXL wiring, including stripes. The shade of the colors might be a little different, the stripe might be thicker or it might be spiraled instead of a straight line stripe, but as long as the color is close it will be extremely helpful. Toyota uses white with black stripe for a lot of grounding runs, for example.

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I'm thankful for your advice the used harness has arrived and been installed!

I've made progress but definitely want to follow up with a few questions for anyone interested...

I'd felt like the harness they sent appeared in good condition, shipping was fast, don't have any complaints, there's a few differences between this harness and the old one, they've included the main engine harness and middle section but not any smaller sections, under the dash there's a different connector for a small piece of harness for the dash switches...

I'll be patient and avoid the temptation to replace that connector for now, called Classic Cruisers and should be able to confirm whether they're able to provide that missing piece, attached some photos and feel anxious about getting the truck started for the first time in awhile, getting some reassurance about my wiring around the ignition coil in particular would be awesome.

1.) I've completely removed the Air Conditioning system, right now everything's plugged into the harness but tucked up under the dash, would bypassing anything on the electrical system be necessary, is there more appropriate solution?

2.) I've got no intention of using the factory radio or sound system, removed the antenna, there was an ugly aftermarket head unit installed that had never worked, the wires to that under the dash have been snipped and taped in a bundle but was under the presumption that wouldn't cause any issues?

3.) I've completely desmogged the truck, non-usa carb, intake/exhaust manifold plugged, charcoal canister removed, it's got a straight-pipe to the muffler, the connectors from the harness will be loose, with a jumper wire from the green plug connector (+) to carb, that should be wiring sorted?


I've been frothing to have my truck back on the road and had greater plans but need to extradite the process, my goal was to reinstall the A/C and some components that got removed during the desmog but this will have to wait until next summer, a running truck with lights and heat would be ideal, feel very nervous about getting this going for some reason and value any advice you might have for me.

Thanks in advance,

J

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I've got the ring connector on the other end of that blue connector attached to the ignition coil bracket going to ground at the battery holder, positive from cruisertrash fusible link replacement on top of old power cable, connector to switches, the radio A/C and rear wiper and currently not installed but connections are terminated, etc,

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I've prayed the used harness would solve my issues...

I'm reasonably confident everything was hooked up right, got some lights but there's no response trying to start the truck.

I'd had everything running and driving rather well before taking on the electrical system, for the record.

I'll have time to look into the wiring further later this week, there's no lights in the rear of the truck with the exception of signal and hazard lights, no running lights or brake lights, no reverse, no dome, the headlights are working but most of the problems that kicked off this whole entire saga haven't been addressed, unfortunately.

I'm not giving up, might start small with the lights and review wiring but would have to consider ordering some parts soon in order to get this thing on the road asap winter's right around the corner, will call classic cruisers to find out whether they can provide the smaller sections of harness, please let me know what you would advise.

I'm going to be beyond thankful to have the land cruiser back.

J

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I've already ordered a new starter and brake light switch...

I'll get in touch with classic cruiser tomorrow about getting my hands on the smaller sections of harness...

I'm going to clean the ignition switch contacts and test some of the lights asap let me know whether anyone has other suggestions, have the week off work and was hoping to make some progress.

I'd probably never be posting but feel desperate and would appreciate any insight, thanks in advance.

J

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I've ordered a new ignition switch as well ahaha not f*ckng around can't even begin to wonder what's wrong

 

[CruiserTrash]

1.) I've completely removed the Air Conditioning system, right now everything's plugged into the harness but tucked up under the dash, would bypassing anything on the electrical system be necessary, is there more appropriate solution?

Just leaving the AC stuff unplugged is fine.

2.) I've got no intention of using the factory radio or sound system, removed the antenna, there was an ugly aftermarket head unit installed that had never worked, the wires to that under the dash have been snipped and taped in a bundle but was under the presumption that wouldn't cause any issues?

Some of those wires could be tapped into the dash harness incorrectly, causing shorts or other issues. Aftermarket wiring is ALWAYS suspect.

3.) I've completely desmogged the truck, non-usa carb, intake/exhaust manifold plugged, charcoal canister removed, it's got a straight-pipe to the muffler, the connectors from the harness will be loose, with a jumper wire from the green plug connector (+) to carb, that should be wiring sorted?

Not sure what "connectors from the harness will be loose" means. The "green wire mod" on the FCS on the carb is a little counterintuitive. Paging @HemiAlex on that one, he knows.


Other than that, does the truck start? lights coming on? You mentioned a new ignition switch. I guess I'm unclear on what the current problem is.

 

[klinetime574]

@CruiserTrash from what I read through all of this it sounds like the current problem is the truck does not start. He has headlights, possibly front marker lights. No tail, brake, or dome light. Unsure about front and rear side markers. Sounds like he just ordered a new starter which I feel may resolve the starting issue. The tail light thing could be a faulty trailer harness if there is one installed on the vehicle. @MisterShadyNasty just keep it simple. Work one problem at a time. You got this. While you wait for the new starter try tapping the old one with a hammer and see if it cranks.

 

[CruiserTrash]

@CruiserTrash from what I read through all of this it sounds like the current problem is the truck does not start. He has headlights, possibly front marker lights. No tail, brake, or dome light. Unsure about front and rear side markers. Sounds like he just ordered a new starter which I feel may resolve the starting issue. The tail light thing could be a faulty trailer harness if there is one installed on the vehicle. @MisterShadyNasty just keep it simple. Work one problem at a time. You got this. While you wait for the new starter try tapping the old one with a hammer and see if it cranks.

Alex is right - one thing at a time. Start at the issue and trace backwards to the battery. You may find a very specific problem with one thing, or if you trace a few problems upstream far enough you may find a more systemic issue. But working the other way - from the battery towards more specific circuits - will take more time and cause more frustration. The starter circuit is a little more complex than it seems at first glance, too. Yes, the starter is connected directly to the battery, but the ignition switch is what tells it to draw power down that fat cable from the battery. I think the charge system (connector on the back of the alternator) is part of that circuit as well, but I might be wrong. @MisterShadyNasty do you have the wiring diagram? If not, you can find it in the resources section of Mud ( a tab at the top of this page). If you don't have it and can't find it let me know.

Recently my left blinker stopped working. I changed the bulb but it still didn't work. So I removed the taillight housing from the body and took the cargo panel off on that side so I had access to the wiring. I turned the blinker on with the stalk switch and then, starting at the bulb socket, used a multimeter and traced upstream until I found voltage. I was checking connectors and inspecting the wire insulation. I also checked the ground for that rear which is hard to find. Granted I needed an analog meter for blinker voltage since it goes on and off repeatedly and a digital meter will give wonky readings, but a digital meter is fine for things that are supposed to have constant voltage when turned on. The bulb socket was only seeing 2V and when I chased it upstream I found that one of the big 10-pin connectors behind the cargo panel had 2V on the downstream side and 12V on the upstream side. Bingo. I pulled the connector apart and all the pins were corroded because I have a small rust hole in my rear fender that allows water in. I cleaned up the pins, plugged the connector back in, and everything works great now. That's just an example of the troubleshooting thought process you may need to go through.

Alex mentioned trailer harness wiring and I mentioned the aftermarket radio wiring, and I'll repeat what I said before: aftermarket wiring is ALWAYS suspect!!!

 

[Themcfarland]

Strong effort by the original poster.
Wish ya luck.

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

I'm very thankful for the support and advice right now!

I've had time to work on the truck today (her name's princess buttercup) and had limited success, enough to get me excited or stay motivated, she would've started and was close but noticed there was a fair amount of fuel spurting from the carburetor onto the air cleaner, unexpected, replaced the intake/exhaust gasket and changed jets in the carb while waiting for the used harness to arrive, hopefully just a matter of tightening some things up there, sounded promising in regards to getting started...

I had success with the headlights (hi & lo) and turn signals, the wipers worked but must need an adjustment...

I'll be thrashed this week with work and probably won't have much time to put into the truck but we'll see, appreciate the explanation for how you tracked down that particular issue, wasn't able to try, yet, but could visualize the process...

I'd like to get enough lights in the rear working to be street legal or safe and get the heater blowing, those seem like my priorities, replaced the heater resistor thing already during this process...

I've got in touch with classic cruisers about sending the sub section of harness that feeds the dash switches, would missing this have an adverse effect on anything already mentioned, the heater circuit?

I'm referring to the connectors that used to serve the smog equipment, currently they're dangling in the engine bay, it's a relief knowing the A/C stuff can remain unplugged and not interfere, also the radio, might just try to pull fuses related to anything not being used, this fuse box on this new/used harness and the relays are definitely different, haven't had the chance to fully look into this or talk to anyone at classic cruisers, they were cool to deal with, hopefully they're sending that dash piece, having the rear might be nice because this comes from a different year truck for sure, but with testing and patience next week can hopefully solve the problems at hand, feeling better about things but still anxious...

I'll post some pics and follow up next week, please don't hesitate to keep the advice coming, would much rather think of anything that might be required and place an order now than wait, would love to get her running and go camping with or without taillights because that'd be good for my soul.

Thanks again for the help,

J

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

No instrument lights either...

*I'm making note of everything, there's definitely a part of me that thinks and hopes there's something interrelated that will be fixed after getting my hands on that section of harness, finger's crossed classic cruisers come's through and this could be an easy fix, trying not to have any expectations.

 

[MisterShadyNasty]

Good evening!



It’s unrelated to the original post but maybe someone here can help…



I’ve got the truck started today, she fires up right away, idled for about 30s - 1m, about enough time to get excited…



I’d noticed fluid presumably oil coming from the port on the valve cover that connects via hose the the air cleaner, there was quite a lot the event felt dramatic and hopefully isn’t a sign of something catastrophic?!



I’ve had the truck sitting the whole summer, have done lots of work throughout this time and thought of some things that could be causing this to happen…



1.) I’ve definitely poured marvel mystery oil over the valves, into the spark plug holes while they were removed, remember using a liberal amount, recall the level was high but plan on changing oil regardless.



2.) I’ve flooded the carb (apparently took care of the previous issue) the oil seems to smell like gas, currently draining some now.



3.) I’ve plugged the vacuum port on the intake manifold during this time, not for any reason other than the kit came with a brass plug, truck had been running well before.



4,) I’ve changed the manifold gasket, can’t think of a reason that would cause this but worth mentioning.



I’ve made progress on some electrical items from the initial post for those reading, need to put work in, had to re prioritize…



I’ll be draining oil and trying to remove the plug to reset the vacuum lines and this stuff how they were, for now.



I’m turning to you because they’re about to repave the garage area at my building, sorry