Defroster problems (1 Viewer)

[jivewalker]

I'm starting to wonder if it is just a s***ty design

Ok guys not sure what to think about it now.
When checking the door it would not close when pushing the recirc/fresh air buttons.
I gave a little feel with my fingers the door flopped down with no resistance at all.
Seems broken to me.

On the way to dealer my wife is going through the controls and low and behold it's working.
What?
We went through all the vents and got hot air wherever we wanted it. Door is working.
Not sure whats going on, but it definitely wasn't functioning before. I will keep updating if there are any changes.

Any thoughts?

Mine only works one direction, it will go up but not down. Bottom is broken off flap where it meets servo motor

 

[bloc]

I'm starting to wonder if it is just a s***ty design

Mine only works one direction, it will go up but not down. Bottom is broken off flap where it meets servo motor

The design is perfectly fine, the training and attention to detail at dealers is piss-poor. That shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that has used a dealer service department, ever.

 

[jivewalker]

From what I can gather from my inspection this morning

Do I have the following things correct? (experts please chime in),

1. the rotating door in "closed" position (meaning airfilter is blocked) is recirculation off (open to exertnal air)
2. The rotating door has two pivots, left by the stereo and right, by the passenger side window.
3. At the right pivot connection point, a motor rotates a geared pivot.
4. The geared pivot is male and it is supposed to slot into the right pivot of the door which also geared
5. I assume the left pivot is just idle?

I think you are correct. The geared side is T shaped. On the geared side, I can see where the bottom of the geared opening female T is broken off. there is enough of the opening left on mine to catch and move one direction, but it wont move the other.

 

[jivewalker]

The design is perfectly fine, the training and attention to detail at dealers is piss-poor. That shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that has used a dealer service department, ever.

I agree and disagree with what you say. For instance, the design on my 4runner allows for easy filter change with no chance for breaking something and no recirc flap in front of the filter. The LC design is not user friendly and is bound for failure. Even deeper than that, I'm not 100% convinced it's being broken by techs. How do we know it doesn't break if the filter is not seated correctly? How do we know it doesn't break from vibration, etc.? I'm just playing devils advocate here, I don't trust the techs either. It would be nice if it were a toyota safety problem (visibility) and fixed under recall instead of fighting with dealers and warranty cos.

 

[Itsky]

I think you are correct. The geared side is T shaped. On the geared side, I can see where the bottom of the geared opening female T is broken off. there is enough of the opening left on mine to catch and move one direction, but it wont move the other.

On the geared side, mine is broken at the bottom. The gear rotates but it wont move the door.

 

[Itsky]

I agree and disagree with what you say. For instance, the design on my 4runner allows for easy filter change with no chance for breaking something and no recirc flap in front of the filter. The LC design is not user friendly and is bound for failure. Even deeper than that, I'm not 100% convinced it's being broken by techs. How do we know it doesn't break if the filter is not seated correctly? How do we know it doesn't break from vibration, etc.? I'm just playing devils advocate here, I don't trust the techs either. It would be nice if it were a toyota safety problem (visibility) and fixed under recall instead of fighting with dealers and warranty cos.

The design is total sh*t as evidenced by the number of breaks reported here. I don't think mine is was broken by techs.

 

[jivewalker]

Do you realize how many LC owners are driving around with inadequate defrost and have no idea? It's a legitimate safety hazard when the windows fog over. Maybe it's time to raise a stink.

 

[Itsky]

Do you realize how many LC owners are driving around with inadequate defrost and have no idea? It's a legitimate safety hazard when the windows fog over. Maybe it's time to raise a stink.

I totally agree, I was driving up to Tahoe last week at 600 am it was negative 12 degrees and all my side windows were covered with frozen frost. My kids were literally scraping off and eating it. I had to vent the windsheild by opening the side windows and sunroof constantly. uncomfortable and complete pain in the ass. It was like I was driving my 1972 VW Squareback in high school. Total POS!

 

[jivewalker]

I totally agree, I was driving up to Tahoe last week at 600 am it was negative 12 degrees and all my side windows were covered with frozen frost. My kids were literally scraping off and eating it. I had to vent the windsheild by opening the side windows and sunroof constantly. uncomfortable and complete pain in the ass. It was like I was driving my 1972 VW Squareback in high school. Total POS!

Yep. I had a similar experience over the holidays. Was driving up in PA in the rain, it got into the 30's and my windows including the windshield fogged and would not defog. I had to crack the windows in the rain to be able to defog. Was definitely dangerous. That routine went on for at least 200 miles. I had only had the LC for a week at that point. I'm now trying to find a good time in my schedule to take it into the shop and be without it. I hope the CPO warranty covers it without issue. Interested to see how the OP makes out at the dealer.

 

[Sandroad]

From what I can gather from my inspection this morning

Do I have the following things correct? (experts please chime in),

1. the rotating door in "closed" position (meaning airfilter is blocked) is recirculation off (open to exertnal air)
2. The rotating door has two pivots, left by the stereo and right, by the passenger side window.
3. At the right pivot connection point, a motor rotates a geared pivot.
4. The geared pivot is male and it is supposed to slot into the right pivot of the door which also geared
5. I assume the left pivot is just idle?

Yes, the left pivot is idle.

The filter is never blocked from air flow in either setting, you just can’t see it when the system is set on fresh.

 

[Sandroad]

Ok guys not sure what to think about it now.
When checking the door it would not close when pushing the recirc/fresh air buttons.
I gave a little feel with my fingers the door flopped down with no resistance at all.
Seems broken to me.

On the way to dealer my wife is going through the controls and low and behold it's working.
What?
We went through all the vents and got hot air wherever we wanted it. Door is working.
Not sure whats going on, but it definitely wasn't functioning before. I will keep updating if there are any changes.

Any thoughts?

The broken door is not related to where the air comes out of the vents. That’s a separate mechanism. Your description is definitely a broken door for fresh/recirc.

 

[bloc]

The doors are breaking from techs. The forces on the door are very very small in normal operation.

This is 100% an issue of poor training compounded by rare vehicles being worked on by lowest-possible-pay techs that process hundreds of Camrys and corollas. I vaguely remember discussion of the issue being less prevalent on LXs, presumably because those techs see 3x as many of these AC systems.

4Runners being a different design is irrelevant. These aren’t 120s.

How many recirc doors break in Australia or the Middle East where 200s are very common?

The broken door is not related to where the air comes out of the vents. That’s a separate mechanism. Your description is definitely a broken door for fresh/recirc.

Over the years people have posted about odd vent behavior that ended up being because the AC system couldn’t get feedback on door position. Once the recirc flap was fixed normal vent function resumed in at least a handful of cases I remember.

Not to say it must be the cause.. mine has done some weird vent stuff before then resolved itself. But it has been correlated.

 

[Sandroad]

The design is total sh*t as evidenced by the number of breaks reported here. I don't think mine is was broken by techs.

The mechanism is strong enough to not break unless the door is forced open. When I fixed mine, I noted it was well made, there is simply enough leverage from the door to break it. There’s a 100% chance yours was broken by someone taking off the access door and being faced with a closed recirc/fresh door, assuming all he had to do was lift it up. And bingo, broken mechanism. There are YouTubes showing how to do it wrong and break it.

 

[Itsky]

The mechanism is strong enough to not break unless the door is forced open. When I fixed mine, I noted it was well made, there is simply enough leverage from the door to break it. There’s a 100% chance yours was broken by someone taking off the access door and being faced with a closed recirc/fresh door, assuming all he had to do was lift it up. And bingo, broken mechanism. There are YouTubes showing how to do it wrong and break it.

Doesn't matter if the mechanism is strong enough, the number of breaks and likelihood proves it's a crap design.

It would be like an auto closing rear door breaking the first a valet tries to do it by hand.

 

[04UZJ100]

Doesn't matter if the mechanism is strong enough, the number of breaks and likelihood proves it's a crap design.

It would be like an auto closing rear door breaking the first a valet tries to do it by hand.

Bad design or indicative of dealer incompetence?

 

[jivewalker]

Bad design or indicative of dealer incompetence?

It is both of the above.

 

[bloc]

It would be like an auto closing rear door breaking the first a valet tries to do it by hand.

No it wouldn’t. It is very common for auto closing doors to be manipulated manually. That is expected.

AC damper doors are not, so they aren’t designed that way.

 

[Itsky]

No it wouldn’t. It is very common for auto closing doors to be manipulated manually. That is expected.

AC damper doors are not, so they aren’t designed that way.

Fair enough, but I don't think mine was forced. I do my filter and oil changes myself and I'm aware of the correct way. It was working fine last winter. My LC was worked on by a reputable shop to have the AT fluid and diff fluids changed - did they break the door? I can't say for sure, maybe they did. But they weren't asked to look at the cabin filter and they didn't try to sell me one.

 

[jivewalker]

@Bluecyclone did you make it to the dealer? I'm interested in what they tell you.

 

[Bluecyclone]

The broken door is not related to where the air comes out of the vents. That’s a separate mechanism. Your description is definitely a broken door for fresh/recirc.

@Bluecyclone did you make it to the dealer? I'm interested in what they tell you.

Probably waiting until Monday now.
Checked it again and it's certainly broke,
thought I dodged a bullet.
It will cycle up but not down. Hopefully it will cover under warranty.