December 12th
- Thread starter Ian Rogers
- Start date
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OK, so you guys who have been places, how did the end of Miller rate as far as difficulty compared to other trails?
No idea if that is considered an easy or hard trail for serious wheelers...
Edjudicate me, please...
E
No idea if that is considered an easy or hard trail for serious wheelers...
Edjudicate me, please...
E
E,
Is that an easy or hard trail....?
That is completely up to the person wheeling to decide and how equipped there rig is... by the sound of it there was some carnage... So for a stock inexperienced driver and rig I think you would agree it was a GREAT learning experience... Try getting some trail books, there are a good start but remember that the author has often given the trail rating and depending on there experience and rig will determine the rating.
Miller, the second half after the creek is considered "a harder tail" close to LA. You want to really see hard and head to "the hammers"... Big Bear also has some fun harder trails...
But now that you've been out and had your first taste of damage you will soon start to purchase... shall we say necessities, slider, lift for bigger tires to clear bigger ruts and clime over bigger rocks witch leads to lower gears and DON"T forget lockers, maybe a winch... You can see where this goes.
Sorry I missed the trip but next time I’m sure those of you who didn't have the "right stuff" will be better prepared.
-Ammo
Is that an easy or hard trail....?
That is completely up to the person wheeling to decide and how equipped there rig is... by the sound of it there was some carnage... So for a stock inexperienced driver and rig I think you would agree it was a GREAT learning experience... Try getting some trail books, there are a good start but remember that the author has often given the trail rating and depending on there experience and rig will determine the rating.
Miller, the second half after the creek is considered "a harder tail" close to LA. You want to really see hard and head to "the hammers"... Big Bear also has some fun harder trails...
But now that you've been out and had your first taste of damage you will soon start to purchase... shall we say necessities, slider, lift for bigger tires to clear bigger ruts and clime over bigger rocks witch leads to lower gears and DON"T forget lockers, maybe a winch... You can see where this goes.
Sorry I missed the trip but next time I’m sure those of you who didn't have the "right stuff" will be better prepared.
-Ammo
Top 5 do's and don'ts of Gorman
So I must admit that I was a little down at first getting to the check point having lost an LC brother (Freddie) to a blown freeze plug on his virgin 40 at the side of the 405 freeway, but the site of 80's and 40's, plus a few familiar faces washed all my worries away. The trail was great and I had a wonderful time getting to know everyone on the run especially PismoJim and his lovely wife. The run was great with a few challenging points, but nothing too hectic that couldn't be handled. The running boards...AHH the running boards! I have been looking for a little motivation toward purchasing a set of sliders and this trip helped out big time. Got a little pinstriping action, but nothing that some buffing wont bring out. But the wax will have to wait a little as I'm currently enjoying driving around with the tire still mounted on the roof and the mud splashed all over the body getting looks from everyone (cleaned the engine and underbody). A little frustration came on my behalf and I'm SURE others from the unnecessary lagging b/c of excessive "carefullness" we'll call it.
Do:
5. Bring plenty of food and water
4. Bring a Landcruiser and NO jeeps (as a pair of them broke our trail line)
3. Have a CB radio, just cool and handy when you are 10 cars deep and have some speed issues
2. Bring that testicular fortitude to take calculated risks and give it a little gas (when appropriate)
1. Have sliders because you don't move the rocks they move your running boards...into interesting configurations that could be sold as art.
Don't:
5. Run Street tires
4. Complain
3. Eat your lunch in the car during the first 4 hours b/c who knows how long the day will last
2. Listen to Ian (if you want to exit the park)
1. Buy Factory Running Boards
I'll try and get pics up soon. Thanks to Ian who got up everything effortlessly and planned the trip and thank you to everyone else for the good times we'll do it again soon.
LC luv,
-Sam-
So I must admit that I was a little down at first getting to the check point having lost an LC brother (Freddie) to a blown freeze plug on his virgin 40 at the side of the 405 freeway, but the site of 80's and 40's, plus a few familiar faces washed all my worries away. The trail was great and I had a wonderful time getting to know everyone on the run especially PismoJim and his lovely wife. The run was great with a few challenging points, but nothing too hectic that couldn't be handled. The running boards...AHH the running boards! I have been looking for a little motivation toward purchasing a set of sliders and this trip helped out big time. Got a little pinstriping action, but nothing that some buffing wont bring out. But the wax will have to wait a little as I'm currently enjoying driving around with the tire still mounted on the roof and the mud splashed all over the body getting looks from everyone (cleaned the engine and underbody). A little frustration came on my behalf and I'm SURE others from the unnecessary lagging b/c of excessive "carefullness" we'll call it.
Do:
5. Bring plenty of food and water
4. Bring a Landcruiser and NO jeeps (as a pair of them broke our trail line)
3. Have a CB radio, just cool and handy when you are 10 cars deep and have some speed issues
2. Bring that testicular fortitude to take calculated risks and give it a little gas (when appropriate)
1. Have sliders because you don't move the rocks they move your running boards...into interesting configurations that could be sold as art.
Don't:
5. Run Street tires
4. Complain
3. Eat your lunch in the car during the first 4 hours b/c who knows how long the day will last
2. Listen to Ian (if you want to exit the park)
1. Buy Factory Running Boards
I'll try and get pics up soon. Thanks to Ian who got up everything effortlessly and planned the trip and thank you to everyone else for the good times we'll do it again soon.
LC luv,
-Sam-
pismojim
the Dude abides...
Eric, I thought it was realtively easy compared to other trails. But I'm sure you realize some people in our group had very different experiences. Obiviously, vehicle modifications, experience and driver attitude, account for the varied impressions of the trail.
When I say it was "relatively easy" I'm considering a couple of points.
1. How difficult is the toughest obstacle? In this case, I'd say it was that pinch rock spot. Given the mud, ice and rocks, that was tough. Nonetheless unlocked rigs without lifts or other mods made it up without too much trouble. The rest of the rigs drove right up.
An aside about the running board damage. We all know those stock running boards are a liability for any cruiser that is used off-road and should have been removed prior to the run. It is insulting to your cruiser's heritage to leave them on when you go out for a day of "wheeling". Personally, I wouldn't let my cruiser leave the garage wearing running boards any sooner than I'd wear dresses and slippers for my wheeling attire.
While I'm at it, it's almost as bad to run street tires. Come on, if you're going to "wheel" at least run some ATs or Mud Terrains. (No offfense to Rick who is a super nice guy and a blast to wheel with) Bottomline, issues with street tires and running boards do not count in any trail rating system of mine.
2. How long was the tough spot? In this case, not long, maybe a car length. Pick a line, give it a little bump and you're through. Consider a trail with the same difficulty obstacle except it goes on for a hundred yards, that's much tougher to navigate. It was never too hard to "find the line" on this trail.
3. How many obstacles are there? In this case, I remember about 3-4 tough places. That's not very many on a 12 mile trail. In between, I found myself going up to 8-10 mph on essentially a dirt road. Sure it was narrow and steep at times but not difficult. Other trails have one tough spot after another. No harder individually, but relentless.
Reviewing some of your coments:
"Don't let the 40 or built80 guys tell you the trail is easy and you'll be just fine! "
But then you realized:
"Looking back at the trail, I would never have thought a stock 80 could make it!"
I guess the 40 or built80 guys were right.
And by the way, regarding concern for doors and body damage, close doesn't count. And by close I mean fractions of inches not the fractions of feet you witnessed on this trail. You don't know "stress" unltil you've run your wagon through the Rubicon or Dusy.
Like Mark said, no one on this run can claim to be a newbie any more. And that includes you Eric !!!
Welcome to the club!
When I say it was "relatively easy" I'm considering a couple of points.
1. How difficult is the toughest obstacle? In this case, I'd say it was that pinch rock spot. Given the mud, ice and rocks, that was tough. Nonetheless unlocked rigs without lifts or other mods made it up without too much trouble. The rest of the rigs drove right up.
An aside about the running board damage. We all know those stock running boards are a liability for any cruiser that is used off-road and should have been removed prior to the run. It is insulting to your cruiser's heritage to leave them on when you go out for a day of "wheeling". Personally, I wouldn't let my cruiser leave the garage wearing running boards any sooner than I'd wear dresses and slippers for my wheeling attire.
While I'm at it, it's almost as bad to run street tires. Come on, if you're going to "wheel" at least run some ATs or Mud Terrains. (No offfense to Rick who is a super nice guy and a blast to wheel with) Bottomline, issues with street tires and running boards do not count in any trail rating system of mine.
2. How long was the tough spot? In this case, not long, maybe a car length. Pick a line, give it a little bump and you're through. Consider a trail with the same difficulty obstacle except it goes on for a hundred yards, that's much tougher to navigate. It was never too hard to "find the line" on this trail.
3. How many obstacles are there? In this case, I remember about 3-4 tough places. That's not very many on a 12 mile trail. In between, I found myself going up to 8-10 mph on essentially a dirt road. Sure it was narrow and steep at times but not difficult. Other trails have one tough spot after another. No harder individually, but relentless.
Reviewing some of your coments:
"Don't let the 40 or built80 guys tell you the trail is easy and you'll be just fine! "
But then you realized:
"Looking back at the trail, I would never have thought a stock 80 could make it!"
I guess the 40 or built80 guys were right.
And by the way, regarding concern for doors and body damage, close doesn't count. And by close I mean fractions of inches not the fractions of feet you witnessed on this trail. You don't know "stress" unltil you've run your wagon through the Rubicon or Dusy.
Like Mark said, no one on this run can claim to be a newbie any more. And that includes you Eric !!!
Welcome to the club!
- Thread starter
- #86
I would only like to defend this ride once and then I will put it to rest. Erick it seams that you did not have fun or even a good time. You have made a lot of accusations and I would like to rebuttal them.
1) “Basically no way one could do it without bashing metal” This is true the whole time I said that you might hit the running boards, but that would be it. I would like to say that as a Driver you need to do what ever your spotter tells you. If they say turn left you need to turn left, that’s it end of story. When I was spotting you past pinch point 2 you were not doing what anyone told you to do, we said left you went right and that’s why you hit your right running board, I could see both sides of your truck and they were clearing by inches, but that’s all you need.
2) “unlocked stock rig would be hard pressed to not get stuck.” But you also say… “Sammy (no lockers, ATs) also for powering through the second nasty spot without need for winching.” All he did was do what he was told and give it some gas. “He didn't see it but got close to opening his entire right side like a sardine can.” This is where the spotter comes in we could tell that he was going to be fine and no cause for to worry. I would like to add my father once said “close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.”
3) “Folks, don't go there with a stock rig (e.g. with running boards)! Not smart! In fact plain stupid with a 15K+ rig unless you are prepared to lose at least your running boards…” I told you this the whole time and at the start of the trail, Mark told you this as well those running boards have to go. “...and have a serious chance of more grievous body damage.” This could happen when ever you go off-road there are risks doing any thing in life, your truck will stay looking new if you left at home all the time as well but then it would be a CAR
4) “Folks, don't do what we did.” I think that this should be just a note to your self, maybe you should not go out.
To all others I had a blast and look forward to meeting on the trail someday soon. The YLCCM will be going to Big Bear soon and will keep you posted.
Thanks for coming,
Ian Rogers
P.S.Dave in the Tan FJ40 if you read this could you PM/ e-mail me rogers_ian@yahoo.com thanks
1) “Basically no way one could do it without bashing metal” This is true the whole time I said that you might hit the running boards, but that would be it. I would like to say that as a Driver you need to do what ever your spotter tells you. If they say turn left you need to turn left, that’s it end of story. When I was spotting you past pinch point 2 you were not doing what anyone told you to do, we said left you went right and that’s why you hit your right running board, I could see both sides of your truck and they were clearing by inches, but that’s all you need.
2) “unlocked stock rig would be hard pressed to not get stuck.” But you also say… “Sammy (no lockers, ATs) also for powering through the second nasty spot without need for winching.” All he did was do what he was told and give it some gas. “He didn't see it but got close to opening his entire right side like a sardine can.” This is where the spotter comes in we could tell that he was going to be fine and no cause for to worry. I would like to add my father once said “close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.”
3) “Folks, don't go there with a stock rig (e.g. with running boards)! Not smart! In fact plain stupid with a 15K+ rig unless you are prepared to lose at least your running boards…” I told you this the whole time and at the start of the trail, Mark told you this as well those running boards have to go. “...and have a serious chance of more grievous body damage.” This could happen when ever you go off-road there are risks doing any thing in life, your truck will stay looking new if you left at home all the time as well but then it would be a CAR
4) “Folks, don't do what we did.” I think that this should be just a note to your self, maybe you should not go out.
To all others I had a blast and look forward to meeting on the trail someday soon. The YLCCM will be going to Big Bear soon and will keep you posted.
Thanks for coming,
Ian Rogers
P.S.Dave in the Tan FJ40 if you read this could you PM/ e-mail me rogers_ian@yahoo.com thanks
I wish I could have joined you guys. I think your enjoyment level will go up exponentially when you/if you get sliders. Instead of fearing a hit, you can braille-method the rocks. That's a huge difference and a huge factor in making things more fun-- especially with stock/mild lift rigs. I am really surprised you guys didn't take the running boards off but a good excuse to mod!
Trust your spotter! My last time out, I went with guys I trusted with alot of experience. I listened to them! No ego, just learn. That was my mentality and I did learn alot!
I hope to join you guys next time!
Trust your spotter! My last time out, I went with guys I trusted with alot of experience. I listened to them! No ego, just learn. That was my mentality and I did learn alot!
I hope to join you guys next time!
rogersfj401969 said:
Whoah! I hope I didn't come across as accusing people! If I did, I apologize, that was not my intention. Didn't mean to impugn your ride. It was great that you put it together and I'm glad I went and glad I met you all, and I thought you were particularly nice and helpful.
I will also say a few words because I do care that you -and others- do not misundestand me.
I did have fun, but could have done without the damage, of course. This is my mistake, evidently, but if I had known/understood better what to expect, I would not have gone with running boards. I did ask but, frankly, I was not clear to me what was in store.
I'm sorry if I didn't follow your instructions during that spotting. I was trying to figure out what Paul was telling me since sometimes he was saying left for his left sometimes left for my left. Confusing (his first time spotting, he was great). And of course, I am new at all this and this was in the middle of a harder passage with lots of scraping noises.
When I mentioned that Sammy got really close to major damage (and probably I did too) this was a reflection on the difficulty of the spot, not a criticism of the spotting. I hope you did not understand it as such.
And when I say that it was stupid to take a stock rig there unless one is prepared to lose the boards and risk major damage, this was intended as a warning for other newbies like myself that may get in over their heads. Same with "don't do what I did". Not a criticism, just a poorly worded attempt at helping out.
I'll leave it at that.
The rig is hopefully fine besides the boards. These will go and I will try and put sliders on when $$ allow. Looks like I escaped major damage. All is well.
thanks for putting together the ride, it was a great experience, and yes I had fun.
Eric
Jim,
"Personally, I wouldn't let my cruiser leave the garage wearing running boards any sooner than I'd wear dresses and slippers for my wheeling attire."
That is funny!!!
Guys who went on this run,
The Miller Jeep Trail was my first trail ride when I moved out here last year from Virginia.
I feel it is a good example of what California trails have to offer. Nothing like back home. I like the trail alot. Its fun, does not take 8 hours to go 1 mile, and has awesome views.
I personnally think it is a great Newbie trail, especially with a truck you are not quite used to yet off-road.
Believe me, the next time you run that trail ( ie: more confidence in your abilites) you will feel like an expert.
Good job to the Newbies- now get some dents and party.
"Personally, I wouldn't let my cruiser leave the garage wearing running boards any sooner than I'd wear dresses and slippers for my wheeling attire."
That is funny!!!
Guys who went on this run,
The Miller Jeep Trail was my first trail ride when I moved out here last year from Virginia.
I feel it is a good example of what California trails have to offer. Nothing like back home. I like the trail alot. Its fun, does not take 8 hours to go 1 mile, and has awesome views.
I personnally think it is a great Newbie trail, especially with a truck you are not quite used to yet off-road.
Believe me, the next time you run that trail ( ie: more confidence in your abilites) you will feel like an expert.
Good job to the Newbies- now get some dents and party.
One more thing-who has pics of that 80 on the Michelins?
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e9999 said:
A controlled slide is like driving slot cars. It's sliding, but because of the ruts in the trail, you know the rig is not gonna leave the trail,.............
if you get my drift!
Dec 12th
Skim, I was tail-gunner so there aren't many pictures as most folks were too interested in witnessing the running board carnage
Here's another one my co-pilot got...
Mike R.
Skim said:
Skim, I was tail-gunner so there aren't many pictures as most folks were too interested in witnessing the running board carnage
Here's another one my co-pilot got...
Mike R.
more humor from the 12th
Ok, so I apologize for more humor at other's expense but...
First is the dreaded brush guard! As everyone knows these are damage multipliers AND as someone on this list once pointed out - installing them usually means that the dope that did so threw away your front tow hooks - doh! At any rate they don't hold up well to winch tows!
Second - not the Peal Jam sticker!!!!! This is the trail equivalent of the old banana in the tailpipe. Took lots of people A LOT of time to figure out why Rick's truck wouldn't run...
Jim - the mental image of you wheeling in drag is too much. Don't get any ideas. Also, nice editing on the topo for Ian's Folly. Took me a couple of looks to get that one. Great to see everyone on this run having fun.
One other thing that didn't quite get impressed on folks - we started by meeting at the parking lot at 0830 hrs. Hit the trail head by 0945 and we didn't get back to pavement until close to 1900!!! Mark, I think you turned around just in time - hah!
Ian, thanks for setting it up again and let me know about Big Bear as that is right in my back yard.
Ok, so I apologize for more humor at other's expense but...
First is the dreaded brush guard! As everyone knows these are damage multipliers AND as someone on this list once pointed out - installing them usually means that the dope that did so threw away your front tow hooks - doh! At any rate they don't hold up well to winch tows!
Second - not the Peal Jam sticker!!!!! This is the trail equivalent of the old banana in the tailpipe. Took lots of people A LOT of time to figure out why Rick's truck wouldn't run...
Jim - the mental image of you wheeling in drag is too much. Don't get any ideas. Also, nice editing on the topo for Ian's Folly. Took me a couple of looks to get that one. Great to see everyone on this run having fun.
One other thing that didn't quite get impressed on folks - we started by meeting at the parking lot at 0830 hrs. Hit the trail head by 0945 and we didn't get back to pavement until close to 1900!!! Mark, I think you turned around just in time - hah!
Ian, thanks for setting it up again and let me know about Big Bear as that is right in my back yard.
well, took the boards off.
Interestingly, they did protect the rocker panels pretty well. Body seems fine. I'm thinking it could have been worse without them.
Actually, the mounts for the boards are pretty sturdy. It's mostly the flat boards themselves that got mangled a bit.
E
Interestingly, they did protect the rocker panels pretty well. Body seems fine. I'm thinking it could have been worse without them.
Actually, the mounts for the boards are pretty sturdy. It's mostly the flat boards themselves that got mangled a bit.
E
Clownmidget,
Youor 80 looks good on those Michelins.
You have any more pics of the Michelins on your 80 even street shots of it?
Youor 80 looks good on those Michelins.
You have any more pics of the Michelins on your 80 even street shots of it?
e9999 said:
You *think* it protected because it got smashed but running boards are low hanging damage multipliers. Without them, you probably wouldn't of hit anything at all.
The only thing running boards will do is cause damage to themselves or multipy damage to the body.
You are going to have SO much fun with sliders! Weee!
get Hanna's - he's close too.
FirstToy said:You *think* it protected because it got smashed but running boards are low hanging damage multipliers. Without them, you probably wouldn't of hit anything at all.
The only thing running boards will do is cause damage to themselves or multipy damage to the body.
You are going to have SO much fun with sliders! Weee!
that's really hard to tell. Yes, one could hit the boards while not having hit the rocker panels without them. OTOH, it is also easily possible that you could have hit the rocker panels without the boards on, but that with them you saved the panels. Guess it depends on how high and where the obstacle is.
And yes, I'm looking into getting sliders...
E
Eric,
Check out this website www.eco4wd.com About 3 years ago a group of my friends (all relative newbies with differemt stock rigs) took a class from Harry Lewellyn. We learned a lot of basics:
-necessary equipment
-tire pressures to run
-different kinds of recovery strategies including whether to use a tow or snatch strap : )
-trail courtesy (yes there really is some)
-reseatig a tire
-much more hands on useful stuff
Since the course I have felt much more confident wheeling and continue to gain confidence by wheelin with others - Ammo, Biff and the PKP boys to name a few....
Hope to see you next time we make a run....hoping to plan a Big Bear trip in the next 2 weeks...
cheers,
David...
Check out this website www.eco4wd.com About 3 years ago a group of my friends (all relative newbies with differemt stock rigs) took a class from Harry Lewellyn. We learned a lot of basics:
-necessary equipment
-tire pressures to run
-different kinds of recovery strategies including whether to use a tow or snatch strap : )
-trail courtesy (yes there really is some)
-reseatig a tire
-much more hands on useful stuff
Since the course I have felt much more confident wheeling and continue to gain confidence by wheelin with others - Ammo, Biff and the PKP boys to name a few....
Hope to see you next time we make a run....hoping to plan a Big Bear trip in the next 2 weeks...
cheers,
David...
