dealer says I need a new ECU Computer?

[daywilliam]

Last week my 00 Cruiser, 131,000 mi, started showing me ABS, VSC Off, and VSC Trac warning lights. At first the lights came on intermittently, then stayed on. Had to take the cruiser to the dealer for an oil change so had them do diagnostic check. Mechanic checked codes and found the ABS and VSC sensors were fine and they transmitted signals to the computer but the computer was not returning signals. Their recommendation was to replace the computer at $1400 for the ECU, and $200 labor for install. The computers are warranted at 8 years and 80,000 miles, I'm past that, and don't want to cough up this kind of cash.

My questions to you guys are: How difficult is it to replace the computer? I had an old 73 Bronco that I personally installed a SEFI off of a 93 Mustang which was nothing more than hooking the wire harness to the ECU and starting her up, computer took care of self diagnostics. Is it that easy with a cruiser if I was to find a computer at a cheaper price and do it my self? What are the install procedures and start-up procedures during a computer replacement install? Would you guys recommend coughing up the cash? Or live without the ABS and VSC for a while?

Thaks in advance.

William Day

 

[DMX84]

William, I think you are more than capable of installing an ECU in your rig.
That’s going to be an expensive fix if you try a new ECU and it doesn’t fix your problem. I would try to find a company that can check your ECU and repair/replace if needed.
Here are some sources for ECU’s, I don’t know if they have the one for your rig, but they may be able to repair/check yours. Let me know what happens.
Dean
http://www.ecudirect.com/index.asp
http://www.cherry-auto.com/brain_boxes_computers_/39.html?gclid=CPfpnb-n9ocCFQtwVAod-3nL1A
http://www.siaelec.com/?OVRAW=ecu repair&OVKEY=repair ecu&OVMTC=standard
http://www.autoecu.com/Products/FindPartsList.asp
http://www.getusedparts.com/Default.asp

 

[daywilliam]

Thanks DMX, I was searching for the part and did come across ECUdirect, am going to give them a call. Has anyone had any experience with them? I'm out of town for 10 days next week, might be a good time to take the computer out and ship it off.

Thanks again!

 

[NMuzj100]

The ECU is a little bit expensive to replace based on one "R&R" tech's opinion. I would get a second at another Toyota dealership.

I would get Cruiser Dan to price a new or rebuilt ECU also. He is a MUD supporter, knows more about cruiser parts than anyone else and gives a hefty discount.

Getting to Cruiser Dan ...

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I'd get a second opinion.
If needed, I'd try a junk yard.

Also....check out this thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=87394
Wait until you see what it really was?!

 

[ZJ2UZJ100]

The mechanical effort to replace the ECU is a half job.

- Disconnect battery ground.
- Remove glove box (2 plastic stop pins in the box, 2 hinge screws)
- Remove black plastic ECU cover behind glove box (3 screws, light switch connector, 1 rectangular plastic rectangle w/yellow wire mounted on it that can be left hanging.
- Unplug 4 connectors on left side of ECU.
- Remove 3 (?) screws on ECU bracket.
- Pull out ECU and marvel at how easy it was.

Heck, while you're in there, change those cabin air filters if you got em.

What I DON'T know about is the electrical and software effort. Ie, whether the new ECU would need to synch with vehicle security module to use same keys.

 

[DMX84]

Check what Shotts problem was and look there first! ( we can only hope this is what your problem is)

What I DON'T know about is the electrical and software effort. Ie, whether the new ECU would need to synch with vehicle security module to use same keys.

You have a good point, I’ll bet you need new keys with the ECU!
DMX

 

[aedgington]

Keys shouldn't be a problem, a new ECU should be "blank". Just go through the adding master keys steps.

$200 labor for taking off the glove box, swap ecu's, replace glove box, program master keys... hmmm. Kind of a rip off. Sounds like a 30 minute job.

I'll second the suggestion to do the filters at the same time.

 

[donco]

Sometimes removing and re-seating the ECU connector can help. Low voltage current contacts are prone to oxidizing & merely sliding the connector off & on is enough to make fresh metal-to-metal contact. Radio Shack has a product called "De-Oxit" that you apply to the contacts with a toothpick. VW dealers also have a product called Stabilant 22a which is a similar contact enhancer.

Many times ECU problems are either a cold solder joint or bad caps. If you are handy with a soldering iron (~15 watts) take the cover off the ECU box and do a visual inspection of the back side of the pc board, particularly around the lugs for any relays or large power transistors. Use a magnefying glass. If you see any solder joints with cracks or a granular appearance that are not bright shiny solder, re-flow them. Also look for any caps that are bulged at the dome or have signs of leaking. They can be replaced individually with better quality caps.

An alternative to a new ECU from the dealer is to send yours in to be repaired (prolly what the dealer does anyway). Here's an outfit that's does a good job but they're not cheap ~$300-400:

http://www.programainc.com/

http://www.fulllogic.com used to do them but I don't know if they're still in business.

 

[aedgington]

Yep, that's very true. I do that a lot on airbag seat sensors, and that is the problem the majority of the time.

 

[DMX84]

Are the newer caps prone to leakage? I’ve heard it happening on the Galant VR4 but not on anything else.
DMX

 

[NMuzj100]

I didn't know so others might not either ...

The "caps" donco refers to are the board's capacitors. When they go bad the caps can bulge,split,rupture or leak. Lots of good pictures of failed caps on the following link.

Wikipidia on "Bad Caps"

Great site on fixing boards with bad caps and will even custom assemble the replacement caps needed for any custom board.
http://www.badcaps.net/

 

[SamoL]

Symptoms are similar to what happened to me once: have you changed a windshield lately?
If it is not 100% waterproof, some water might come behind the glove box where the ECU is. And then various lights might be on: in my situation dirver and passanger seatbelt lights were on permanently and all the height controll lights (even though my car doesn't have it).
Check first if the ECU is dry and the cables are dry before you buy a new one.

Regards
Samo

 

[daywilliam]

Dealer says I need a new ecu continued

Thanks all for replying, of course this just compunds the problem because of the seemingly infinite possibilities that it may be. But I gotta believe a computer is going to last longer than 6 years. And of course electrical problems are the most difficult to fix and the systems can have all sorts of timely and expensive gremlins to chase down. By the way, dealer labor book rates are $100+ in DC area, 2 hours by the book. And of course the dealership wants to take the easy route and just replace the computer. Now on to y'alls replies that I am most grateful for, especially to Shotts for thinking of that old thread and digging it up for me. Also to Samol because I am actually on my 3rd windshield. The 2nd one I believe did leak a little, and eventually cracked. I am going to have to take the glove box off and look for signs of water damage. Thanks to ? for posting that info. Now Shott's thread was a most interesting read because of the CDL button switch culprit. My cruiser is primarily a daily driver but she does see alot of moderate off road during the hunting season, especially logging roads in PA at deer camp. The other day I was getting in and thought I accidentally bumped the CDL button, so I pushed it on and off to make sure. AND I THINK it has been since this that I have had this prob with the ABS, ECU etc lights staying on. The odd thing is that the lights occasionally go off after extended periods of driving. But very rarely. I plan on taking a copy of your replies to the dealer and see what they have to say before I spend any cash. Anything else I should think about? Will keep you guys posted on developments and hopefuly the solution!

Thanks again, William Day

 

[Landpimp]

I dunno, but ya just don't hear of ECU's failing, sounds like they are on the replace it on your dime and see it works program.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Thanks all for replying, of course this just compunds the problem because of the seemingly infinite possibilities that it may be. But I gotta believe a computer is going to last longer than 6 years. And of course electrical problems are the most difficult to fix and the systems can have all sorts of timely and expensive gremlins to chase down. By the way, dealer labor book rates are $100+ in DC area, 2 hours by the book. And of course the dealership wants to take the easy route and just replace the computer. Now on to y'alls replies that I am most grateful for, especially to Shotts for thinking of that old thread and digging it up for me. Also to Samol because I am actually on my 3rd windshield. The 2nd one I believe did leak a little, and eventually cracked. I am going to have to take the glove box off and look for signs of water damage. Thanks to ? for posting that info. Now Shott's thread was a most interesting read because of the CDL button switch culprit. My cruiser is primarily a daily driver but she does see alot of moderate off road during the hunting season, especially logging roads in PA at deer camp. The other day I was getting in and thought I accidentally bumped the CDL button, so I pushed it on and off to make sure. AND I THINK it has been since this that I have had this prob with the ABS, ECU etc lights staying on. The odd thing is that the lights occasionally go off after extended periods of driving. But very rarely. I plan on taking a copy of your replies to the dealer and see what they have to say before I spend any cash. Anything else I should think about? Will keep you guys posted on developments and hopefuly the solution!

Thanks again, William Day

William: Let's a take a step back one second. Not sure if your read my thread about my TRAC/VSC ECU? It was a $1 switch instead of the ECU like they replaced. Here's my thought:

Wait, first....back to my story....despite having my VSC/TRAC warning lights ON, everything STILL WORKED fine. TRAC worked. VSC worked. ABS worked. It was only the bad switch that caused the warning lights to light.

OK...to your truck....have you went out to see if everything works? It might just be some warning system fault and not the actual system.

So, slam on the brakes and see if your feel the ABS activate.

Next, find some dirt road place and try to get your TRAC to activate.

Last, get on dirt, then in the middle of a safe turn, hit the brakes and oversteer and see if VSC kicks in and beeps.

If everything (or only some things) work(s) you'll have learned a lot about what's REALLY wrong.

Whatcha think?

 

[daywilliam]

Shotts,

I'll have a real good opportunity to check it our at deer camp after Thanksgiving, lots of nice rocky hill climbs and slippery muddy roads. I really think it is in the actuator switch as was your case. I'll try the easy fix approach first before trail testing and putting it in the hands of paid by the hour mechanics. Will keep y'all posted.

Thanks

 

[Jim_Chow]

I think ECU failure is rare, unless you submerge the vehicle. The ECU on my '86 still works w/ no issues. I hate how dealers seem to have no liability if the problem is not what they claim it is. What do physicians do when they're unsure? They order more tests rather than guess! Meanwhile, you get a second opinion.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I think ECU failure is rare, unless you submerge the vehicle. The ECU on my '86 still works w/ no issues. I hate how dealers seem to have no liability if the problem is not what they claim it is. What do physicians do when they're unsure? They order more tests rather than guess! Meanwhile, you get a second opinion.

This is so true.

I recently got a Mazda Milennia S with a bad supercharger, and for free. All else worked and was in good shape. I eBay-d a motor and S/C with 40K. Swapped, re-newed a bunch of stuff, it rode sweet....for two weeks. Then, after 20-minutes from cold start the thing will not run above 2500RPM. It jerks as fuel or electric gets cut off and on. If you cycle the ignition it runs fine again for a bit.

My guy can't figure it. Mazda ran codes and said it could be either the TRAC ECU or the ABS Hydraulic unit...OR BOTH. We're stuck and I've got $3K in it. We're trading it. I bet it's something basic and not an ECU though NOBODY can figure it out. Others have run into this with the Milenna S too. Rarely does it get figured out. SUCKS!

 

[EdsCruisin]

William,
What were the codes the dealer found? When I had all those lights come on it was the Accelerator Pedal Position sensor, located in the throttle body. Now my LC went into "limp mode" momentarily and then after restarting I was able to drive normally. I don't own a scanner, but the dealer mechanic said it took him a while to figure out, and by discussion with the other mechanics, it seemed to be an uncommon problem, but they were able to isolate it with a bit of research and testing.

That repair cost about $650 in the Baltimore area, which is probably comparable to DC. I would hate to see you replace a good computer and still have the problem. Those three lights are the signs for many unrelated possibilities - Might be worth another look.

Ed