Cullowhee

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addicted56

addicted56

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
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202
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2,713
Location
North Bend, OR
So when are we going to start fighting back for this one? We seem to be blowing a lot of money on Tellico and though it is moving forward I don't see anyone on any trails and it has been more than a few years now. My guess it wouldn't take as much to get Cullowhee back. Also does anyone know where the official paperwork and closing reports for those trails are? I heard this was done legally under the code name "wet face" and that though it was open for discussion nobody even showed up because we didn't know about it. It would seem if we were not fighting Trout unlimited and the other big name groups we could put our money to some good use and get back on some trails. Maybe an easy win to get some momentum in our favor. I would love to head back there.
 
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Tellico will never re-open as it has already been destroyed.... all the lawsuit can do is protect future sites (not many left) and maybe force them to allocate other gubment land for another site.

Cull had the paper work on the books for years that they were going to close down with 2 open forums to come and speak out against it. The problem there was that it seem many people wanted to keep the place a secret so not that many people actually knew about it and the ones that did weren't looking on the USFS sites to see if there was anything in the work to close it down since all the Tellico stuff was going on.

Lesson should be learned.... keep things secret and there is no one around to stand up and fight for it.... my .02 which is most likely worth .01 now.
 
Thanks for the info. I bring this up as I was looking thru old photos. I also had a very interesting conversation with a gentlemen back in my home town that lives up our inlet at a Christmas party. He was explaining how he had done a lot of lobbying in Oregon to keep trails open and it was very interesting and supposedly he had a lot of success. Sadly though he is not longer doing it.

Thinking we need a good lobbyist :)
 
lt1fire said:
The problem there was that it seem many people wanted to keep the place a secret so not that many people actually knew about it .

Lesson should be learned.... keep things secret and there is no one around to stand up and fight for it.... my .02 which is most likely worth .01 now.
Click to expand...

100% agree with statement above

I dont know how many times someone on the internet tried to convince me not to go and explore out there since I was not a local or some one that had already been to that place.
I gathered that since they knew about the place first that it was off limits to anybody else.
That is why I would not donate to try to get that place open.

Just saying
 
kinda funny I 100% disagreed but whatever, not looking for a pissing match.

I think youll find not many if any mud members were aware of it before it was shared with the only local club around many years back. Unfortunately not many years after sharing we find it closed. Del that stinks though, I know it was never an objective of me or anyone I know to keep others away as much as keep the directions and iformation off the internet. Believe me this is a very special place to me and I would love for all of us to get the chance to responsibly enjoy it. Many folks went through great lenghts just to get or keep the info off the web solely b/c it brought too much travel to the area. Of all those folks I dont know a one that wouldnt share the directions and whatever they could to help you enjoy it OFF a public forum. The only time I told anyone "no" in the basic sense was after the damage was done and the gates in place and was more a dont waste your time driving type answer. IF anything I would say these same folks as well as many others were unaware of the forum to discuss its future, if anything that was the secret kept by our gooberment to effect the outcome. Now if you knew about these forums and kept it a secret and didnt share the info across all avenues then I would consider you just as guilty if not guiltier of bringing the closures (that you is a general you and not directed at anyone)

Do remember, it was never an organized or designated place of OHV but rather the same as any other National Game Lands; a protected space for the public to enjoy through hunting, fishing, etc. And yes there are lots of people that know of the spot from years at school there or friends of friends so its not like its proprietary knowledge of some secret space. However the last time ONSC was there the discussion with the game warden revealed that many visitors were less than responsible and were causing excessive wear and litter in the area. (primary example was a group of SC ttora members)

Looking at other NGL it seems as if its hit or miss if vehicular traffic is permitted. Usually so but it seems to depend on the size of the space as well as proximity to population. (this is my take not official gov verbage). Anyhow either way it sucks its gone for now and Im all for reclaiming it for vehicular use.
 
You wont offend me brother :beer::beer:

For the record most folks that new of that location were pretty good at keeping it secret. Hell, I had to decipher what "WEE" meant. I understand wanting to keep the info off the internet and never asked anyone to tell me where the location was or to post up a map to the location. After some "attitude" not necessarily towards me, I found the place not through the internet but by ordering a bunch of NATGEO paper maps and studying them and cross refrencing them with google maps. Then ultimatly driving out there and exploring.

Del
 
SFROMAN said:
You wont offend me brother :beer::beer:

For the record most folks that new of that location were pretty good at keeping it secret. Hell, I had to decipher what "WEE" meant. I understand wanting to keep the info off the internet and never asked anyone to tell me where the location was or to post up a map to the location. After some "attitude" not necessarily towards me, I found the place not through the internet but by ordering a bunch of NATGEO paper maps and studying them and cross refrencing them with google maps. Then ultimatly driving out there and exploring.

Del
Click to expand...

Never got to go :mad:


Oh well there is plenty of places for me to explore out west and up north in the future.

My experience was similar to yours Del.... kept running into walls trying to find it. All I ever got was well there is a trip being planned on blah blah blah.... which didn't help me since I was going to be in the area at a sooner time and just wanted to go exploring with my wife and family.

Def not pointing fingers at anyone here though just voicing my opinion since Traylor brought it up. I think there are much better ways to go about places like that.
 
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I did mean to spark a little interest but didn't mean to bring up any bad feelings. I'm pretty harsh with words sometimes and 99% of the time my intent is lost in internet translation (apparently I speak a lot with my body instead of words....says my new boss).

I just wonder if there is anything we can do and maybe it will be an easy fight compared to others out there. They seem to be able to close them down when we are not paying attention very easily. Maybe we can do the same by opening them back up very discretely and with smaller projects nobody is paying attention to.

How about an Occupy Cullowhee. If a bunch of pot smoking lazy s***s can illegally occupy and camp in the streets and parks of our cities with a huge police presence and openly TRASH those places with no intent of cleaning it up we sure as s*** should be able to get a couple hundred rednecks and off-road enthusiasts to go camping for a week. Don't think anyone would fxxx with us.

Was that to harsh...again its all in the delivery...so hard to do online... :)
 
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This discussion brings back memories of when I first got into mountain biking back in the 80's and even skateboarding before that. Having to keep spots secret back then was easier, no internet. Yet, the circumstances are very similar.

The scene is the same where a secret spot is "found out", publicised and abused by those who don't cherish the spot, those who control access shut it down. For the mountain bike trails, other, more powerful lobbies (meaning $$$$) used their influence to exclude mountain bike access despite flawed studies, logic and reasoning, as we know now through hindsight. Yet, at the time, it was because the mountain bikers were unorganized, young, no power (again, meaining $$$$) and thought the "outlaw" image would somehow prevail.

I see the same thing happening here. I had numerous discussions on my trip to CO at the FJCruiser Summit with some "known" entities of the off-road world and see closures increasing for various reasons. One significant factor is that the various users (OHV, motorcycles, "side-by-sides", mountain bike, etc) are all protecting "their" turf and not willing to put their access at risk to support the other. That's where the Blue Ribbon Coalition helps bring all together.

For me, the "light bulb moment" came when I realized a significant factor to the side-by-side growth and increase in popularity...they can access motorcycle trails, we can't. They can be easily towed to a "motorcycle trailhead" by a minivan, don't have to be registered (some state require OHV stickers) or insured, can be parked beside the garage in the trailer and enjoyed just as our "full bodied" rigs can.

Users are jumping on the bandwagon, getting the joy we get being off-road, businesses are jumping on also, making more and more accessories, upgrades and vehicles in this market while "our" market is dying a slow death IMHO.

One would think this is a good thing, yet, the two "factions" don't come together to aid in each other's lobbying together for continued access for all groups. And, these factions divide deeper, Jeeps vs Cruisers, Landcruisers vs FJCruisers vs trucks, buggies vs full-bodied...it goes on and on. I can't imagine how bad it would have been if in the mountain bike fights, we has Specialized vs Trek vs Cannondale vs Klein vs ???, rigid vs front suspension vs full suspension and, we did fight road bikes vs mountain bikes which fractured cyclists as a whole. Just plain stupid.

I'm having a flashback, hope its not just product of growing up in the 70's but it is so similar, I can't help seeing that it will get a lot worse before it gets any better. Sorry for the rant...
 
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You're right about the infighting killing the sports and also bring up points that was my main point. The more people to stand up and fight the better.

USFS could have been approached about club sponsorships, clean up, stewardship of the land etc working with them to help promote responsible use.
 
That place was outstanding....beautiful scenery, great roads, ample camping......and most people respected it and helped ensure its continued access. Went there as child many times with my uncle and father....stay in Robbinsville and head up there all the time if not going to tube down Nantahala instead.

Was not as friendly in recent years....due to some thinking they owned all OHV activity in that region.....not to mention threats if you went and did not invite them......it was a beautiful place ruined by those without any sense of responsibility or caring for the environment.......and those that thought they were the caretakers of the area with the ability to decide who was worthy.

I went up there as a kid all the time...hunting, canoeing, rafting, camping......offroading is how you got to your hunting and camping sites....not the event itself.

Things change but this was for the worse.... :(
 
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Bump - I'm newer on this forum, but my parents live in the area and I have other family that's owned land in the vicinity (Waynesville) for several generations. I've heard great things about Cullowhee and am just wondering if there is any motivation to try to re-open any of this area at this time. I will be in the area 2-3x this year, maybe more, and would be happy to check the status of trails/gates if needed or relevant...
 
Can you help with details about what was open that's now closed. Any location info, like trailheads, directions, coordinates, approximate square acres/miles, etc? I know very little about what was there that's now not accessible.

On the map most of the area there is NF, are these trails that are all NF, or a mix of public/private? Thanks!
 
Mostly public. I would first see if we could get caney fork opened all the way up to the Lower bald. If that fails then maybe even a seasonal opening of Moses creek gate before the lower bald. Either one of those would give us access to the upper bald campsite. There are others like shock snapper but I would focus on those two right now. WIth Caney being the main goal. Moses creek is gravel the entire way.
 
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