Converted air/air intercooler to water/air ?

[xtremitys]

I just bought ( won the auction ) a small 2nd hand intercooler off trademe( nearly new ) that is 180mm (W) x 200mm (L)x 100mm (thick) , came off a 2000 nissan silvia S15 turbo . I have been looking around for suitable intercooler for a wee while , needed something small & thick ,100mm thick is good . Am planning modifying it into a Water/Air Intercooler by incasing it in alloy plate and running a gettn & runn'n small radiator with a fan for fot it .

Its going into a 89' LJ71 Bundy that currently has a 2LT , but will be building a tough 13BT later this year for it , Sort of limited space for a bigger cooler as will move radiator foward and have the thermo fan in front as a pusher ( to fit 13Bt in )

Wondering if anyone has done something similar ? i have seen a few water/air intercoolers for drag cars , etc , but yet to see one in a 4x4 .

 

[kirk]

Air to Air is the best option off road. Air to water coolers are not as efficient unless the cooling liquid is chilled with ice or another medium. Air to water is prone to leaking and since we subject our rigs to lots of vibration cracking happens quick. I would suggest mounting the cooler in a air to air configuration first. There have only been a handfull of production autos using air to water coolers.

There is a great write up by George Spears of spearco intercoolers in California on this. It will further detail what I started to say.

Regards

Kirk

 

[xtremitys]

Only problem is with when you go off road , as 4x4's gernally go slow thru terrain , etc and theres not much airflow thru the fron mount intercooler .

Alot of powerfull Diesel engines full stop run an aftercooler which is an intercooler that has coolant from the engine running thru it that drops temps down from around 160c to 85c . I am planning on running it on a seperate system with its own radiator to drop temps down to 30-40c possibly lower if i can .

 

[CruisinGA]

Only problem is with when you go off road , as 4x4's gernally go slow thru terrain , etc and theres not much airflow thru the fron mount intercooler .

Thats why your engine has a fan...

You can always add another as well.

 

[xtremitys]

will soon have a BIG thermo fan infront of the radiator , going with my planned mod as have researched it a bit already , can always have a Air/Air aswell possibly as some diesel set ups have 2 or more intercoolers . but may not need it as NZ is quite cool anyway . the 13Bt i wll be building will be running a pairs of turbo's , so soon see .

 

[kirk]

Do you have an idea of what your discharge temp would be? How many bar or psi of boost pressure are you planning to run at cruising speed and wide open throttle?

I am personally not a supporter of using the engine coolant as a medium to cool the intercooler.

An air to air does work at a lower efficiency even if the vehicle is no moving. a fan does help greatly. Mr spears book talks of this and shows efficency at different speeds

Kirk

 

[Dusty]

when I put together a turbo for my 80 I found that my engine temps actually run cooler while wheeling (ie going slow without boosting). I know this to be true as I have a digital gauge. I supose the air to air intercooler has something to do with this. but I also run a large oil cooler and an auxilary electric fan.

water to air intercooling has too many parts and hoses and pumps, etc to go wrong. however for low speed occasional boosting the water to air intercooler is a more efficient heat exchanger. immagine all that cool water sitting in a reservoir, enough say enough for a 15 second boost to run a mud hole before all the cool water is pumped out of reservoir into heat exchanger. for long term boosting like climbing a mountain pass or towing the water to air exchanger becomes much less efficient as oposed to an air air cooler.

 

[fng55]

water/alcahol injection can also drasticly reduce intake charge temps...
it takes up very little space, and the alcahol will speed up the combustion.
just a thought, carl

 

[xtremitys]

have heard about water injection , etc . But not sure how it works on a turbo diesel ? how come there are fuel filters that have water seperators , maybe to stop water going thru the injection pump & stuffing it ?

Brand new Air/Air intercoolers are so cheap now , seen heaps on ebay/trademe going for less than $300, even 2nd hand Trust/GTR versions are going for around that mark too . if it doesn't work out with this cooler project , can always grab one of those to mount infront of the radiator .

Plus remember that most cars , etc a water cooled & not air cooled like early VW's . so theere has to be a water/coolant set up that has to more than beneficial !

 

[kirk]

have heard about water injection , etc . But not sure how it works on a turbo diesel ? how come there are fuel filters that have water seperators , maybe to stop water going thru the injection pump & stuffing it ?

Water in any fuel is bad. Water injection is a totally different purpose. When one injects water or alcohol/methanol or nitrous or some really expensive goods like propline-oxide into a diesel or charged gas engine here is what happens. the discharge temp of the air heading to the engines is way hotter than outside air right?anywhere to 650 degrees F! Hotter air is less populated with oxygen right? when a nozzle sprays one of these into the intake stream the spray changes from a liquid to vapor to gas. When this occurs it absorbs heat energy and hence creates a more oxygen populated air charge that burns more fuel. Water is the least effective of the group. Propoline oxide is some unstable s*** that is great at blowing giant holes in pistons and heads. A small shot of nitrous apx 25 hp really can help drop intake air temps. High quality windshield washer fluid works too.

Kirk

 

[Tapage]

Dude ..

You have several options but all depends of what do you really want.

water to air cooler it's nice for a reace or city driving car .. but not in a rig .. at least to me ..

I ran a top mounted intercooler in my 2H with a mustang huge hood scoop .. but when I'm in a trail and need swith my turbo dual booster to 16 PSI usually place a ice bag in my intercooler and yahooooo !

seriusly .. Nissan Patrol comes with ( and 4M40 Mitsu Montero engines ) electric fan under the top mounted intercooler .. option.

Other one ( and the one that I like it ) water mist to drop down your chamber temps .. convine it .. electrin fan and water mist and you get nice performance ..

Always run a Pyro and Boost gauge to tune up your turbo diesel engine.

 

[xtremitys]

I'm a bit suprised actually , aftercoolers ( coolant based water/air intercoolers ) on diesels have been around for donkeys ages , on most bigger diesels like Cat , Cummins , Detroit , International/Iveco , etc ,etc . And to pretty much say they are s*** house is pretty ignorant i reckn . Most race cars use large front mount Air/Air intercoolers or mounted within body with air ducts , but thats at high speed , water to air intercoolers are starting to become popular in cars, 4x4's , etc , just have to do a bit of reading in aftermarket/Race magazines , sites , etc to see .

I was pretty much stupid asking a question on here that i already know , its my own fault eh - lol

 

[BlueHZT60]

when I put together a turbo for my 80 I found that my engine temps actually run cooler while wheeling (ie going slow without boosting). I know this to be true as I have a digital gauge. I supose the air to air intercooler has something to do with this. but I also run a large oil cooler and an auxilary electric fan.

water to air intercooling has too many parts and hoses and pumps, etc to go wrong. however for low speed occasional boosting the water to air intercooler is a more efficient heat exchanger. immagine all that cool water sitting in a reservoir, enough say enough for a 15 second boost to run a mud hole before all the cool water is pumped out of reservoir into heat exchanger. for long term boosting like climbing a mountain pass or towing the water to air exchanger becomes much less efficient as oposed to an air air cooler.

DITTO, on my HZ-t 60 series. Offroad, low range - including rally driving & hill climbs my temps never go up. The only time I get hot is extended uphill highway driving. Also in USA, I have noticed in the Summit Offroad catalog that they make an inexpensive water sprayer for the incooler. A little more expensive is a C02 sprayer.

I'm considering modifying my headlight washers to spray on the radiator. I've been slowly researching this issue for many months and don't have the perfect answer yet.

Bob

 

[Tapage]

I have noticed in the Summit Offroad catalog that they make an inexpensive water sprayer for the incooler.

Bob did you have a link to this part . ? ( kit )

 

[4alarm]

A Mazda 13BT? Interesting choice in motors. What made you choose it? I thought about this once, but figured I'd be better off with a motor that would provide more torque. The 13BT's are great for HP, but not so much for torque.

 

[4alarm]

Never mind, I see that Toyota has a 13BT as well. I guess I need to bone up on my Toyota motors.

A Mazda 13BT or 13BTT would be cool though!

 

[Poser]

I'm a bit suprised actually , aftercoolers ( coolant based water/air intercoolers ) on diesels have been around for donkeys ages , on most bigger diesels like Cat , Cummins , Detroit , International/Iveco , etc ,etc . And to pretty much say they are s*** house is pretty ignorant i reckn

Yes they have, up until the mid 90’s, and then pretty much any diesel engine making real power is air to air, as it is a significantly more efficient means of cooling the charge air from the turbo....

 

[xtremitys]

No worrys, going against it now . realised its not going to flow enough for twin's anyway . Looks like a big bar & plate out front will be the answer. after reading a few articles in some US diesel perfomance magazines .
so cheers everyone for their opinions