Considering an upgrade from my 470. This or that?

[amongmany]

Title pretty much says it — I'm considering an upgrade from my 470 (which I love). Choice is between an early-model GX460 (2010-11 probably) or a 100 Series.

Which do you choose, and why?

For context, it would be primarily used for overlanding. No serious crawling or anything. No complaints about my 470 other than at 206k it's starting to see those few niggling issues crop up (bushings wearing out, sensors going out, etc.) and I might sell to a family member who could use the upgrade.

 

[jiggletits]

Just fix the 470 and keep it. I wouldn’t consider either of your options an ‘upgrade’.

 

[amongmany]

I wouldn’t consider either of your options an ‘upgrade’.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Rednexus]

The issues you mention on your GX (sensors, bushings) can be replaced relatively easily and cheaply. 206K is nothing for a well-maintained GX; it's just now at it's half-life. If you like it otherwise, I'd just sink a few grand in it to fix whatever issues it has.

A 100-series is just as old as a GX and may have similar issues (although folks say they are built better than a GX). The first-gen 460 really isn't that much newer than your GX, so neither would be that much of an upgrade. The 100-series also has a much worse power-to-weight ratio than a GX.

IMO, a better upgrade would be a 200 series (if you can afford one), a newer GX460 (simply for lower miles), or a 5th gen T4R (simply for being newer - interior and engine in a GX are of course better).

 

[jiggletits]

Care to elaborate?

A 100 series is basically a bigger, slower, heavier, GX that gets worse MPG. Same s***ty dated interior and features. Still has IFS, same drivetrain. It is nothing special compared to a GX. Unless you're goal is to take up more space, the LC is a downgrade.

A 460 has slightly newer features if that is what you want, but still very dated. Hell, even a 2022 GX is dated. The 150 platform is 13+ years old at this point. And Again... bloated, bigger, worse approach/departure angles, considerably heavier on basically the same platform.

Neither is an upgrade. Both are downgrades IMO. 209k is nothing. Just fix your s*** and drive it. That's a million mile motor you have there. Triple lock that bitch. That's the real upgrade.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

If I ever upgrade…it would be to a 200-series.

 

[GXO]

I founded GXOR and drive a 2003 470 for offroad use for a reason. It is small outside but big inside. 03 has no RSCA, no VVTI, fewer nannies, and is easier and cheaper to work on. I just put RCLT on our 03 and 04 470s and made sure they were tricked out and maintained and run 37s and all the armor for the pair. The cost to do both would be the cost to do one of the 460s, 100s, or even a 200 because of part prices, complexity, and relative first of its kind approach. So for me? The 470 makes the perfect wheeler that is comfortable and still reminds me of my 80.

100s. I have owned 2 and they are big and slow and have the same engine and transmission as a GX. It's just a fat sibling with a bit more room.

460s. I LOVE our 22 Nori. Fantastic car that I never want to get a scratch on haha. The 2012s are driven by my boys and they are bulletproof DDs but they cost more to maintain and are approaching the age with the same concerns you have with your 470. A newer 460 is not tech update and is no different than any other year until you get to the 2022....which leads back to I don't want to wheel the 22.

200s. They are solid as they are a land cruiser. They are BIG. If you aren't doing highly technical trails you are probably on the right track, but they are also expensive to upgrade and maintain. We looked at a 200 and now the LX600 and neither were actually bigger than the 460 in the cargo areas. Just the seats. We passed.

Knowing the devils you know vs those that you don't has value. I have chased every gremlin in our trucks and know what they are over the years.

If it means anything, I put RCLT and diamonds, etc on our rigs at 225k and 205k respectively for mine and hers. No regrets and all new everything makes them drive like new trucks.

 

[amongmany]

Thanks for the input everyone. Sounds like I'm sticking with the 470. Will plan to go over it with a fine-tooth comb over the next few months and ready it for another 200k.

 

[Rednexus]

Thanks for the input everyone. Sounds like I'm sticking with the 470. Will plan to go over it with a fine-tooth comb over the next few months and ready it for another 200k.

You'll be amazed how nice it will be with stuff like a brand-new suspension, replacing worn out interior bits, giving it a cut-and-polish, etc. I often forget that ours in 15 years old when we are pulling our camper and family with it hundreds of miles from home! It's amazing how well the 120 platform lasts and has aged.

 

[scooterp7]

I recently rebuild my suspension at around 200k. It drove like a new truck. It’s an 05 with KDSS. I had previously installed the Bilstein suspension from the FJ TTUE edition when they were on close out.
1 converted from airbags to GX460 rear springs with factory upper isolators and did the hockey pucks on the bottom.
2 replaced the bump stops from and rear with Wheeler Off-road ones
3 used Cruiser Outfitter rear bushings. Upper and lower control arms and panhard
4 Siberian poly sway bar bushings front and rear
5 replaced inner and outer tie rods with Sankei555 brand
6 ball joints with sankei 555 brand
7 lower control arm bushings from Cruiser Outfitters
8 new take off factory upper control arms. The suspension kit had little to no lift so it aligns and drives fine with no need for adjustable upper arms.
I replaced misc bolts and nuts during the process and only had to cut one alignment cam off. After an alignment it drove like a new truck. I bought used control arms and panhard. Put the new parts in them and then replaced the old ones. Lots less downtime and no surprises.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I founded GXOR and drive a 2003 470 for offroad use for a reason. It is small outside but big inside. 03 has no RSCA, no VVTI, fewer nannies, and is easier and cheaper to work on. I just put RCLT on our 03 and 04 470s and made sure they were tricked out and maintained and run 37s and all the armor for the pair. The cost to do both would be the cost to do one of the 460s, 100s, or even a 200 because of part prices, complexity, and relative first of its kind approach. So for me? The 470 makes the perfect wheeler that is comfortable and still reminds me of my 80.

100s. I have owned 2 and they are big and slow and have the same engine and transmission as a GX. It's just a fat sibling with a bit more room.

460s. I LOVE our 22 Nori. Fantastic car that I never want to get a scratch on haha. The 2012s are driven by my boys and they are bulletproof DDs but they cost more to maintain and are approaching the age with the same concerns you have with your 470. A newer 460 is not tech update and is no different than any other year until you get to the 2022....which leads back to I don't want to wheel the 22.

200s. They are solid as they are a land cruiser. They are BIG. If you aren't doing highly technical trails you are probably on the right track, but they are also expensive to upgrade and maintain. We looked at a 200 and now the LX600 and neither were actually bigger than the 460 in the cargo areas. Just the seats. We passed.

Knowing the devils you know vs those that you don't has value. I have chased every gremlin in our trucks and know what they are over the years.

If it means anything, I put RCLT and diamonds, etc on our rigs at 225k and 205k respectively for mine and hers. No regrets and all new everything makes them drive like new trucks.

Thanks for sharing this. Your opinion on this carries weight.

I’ve been somewhat of a minimalist/frugal modifier of my offroad vehicles (1996 80, 2003 GX470).

Just do good maintenance, 33s, lift 2” to 2.5”, add armor, and wheel it moderately when exploring the outdoors.

When you have my philosophy, the base components on the 100 and 200 series like the way bigger diffs are appealing. And I love the look of the 200s and advanced traction control.

However, I hadn’t considered the higher costs of parts and repairs/upgrades on the 200.

The only thing I wish I had is a rear locker, but I have concerns on adding it to an 8” diff. So that means getting an 8.2” diff, regear, and lockers and this upgrade jumps in price.

And your opinion as well as others who have responded here make me feel better about the gx470 and maybe going for the 8.2”, 4.56s, and rear locker when the time comes.

In the end, I’m really happy with my mildly built gx470 for solo camping and exploring.

I was surprised that my mildly built 2003 GX470 with extended rear shocks/springs climbed Little John Bull like a goat and kept up with the two newer 2020+ 4Rs that had rear lockers, newer ATRAC, and equal or greater lifts/suspensions (KINGS).

After all the comments here and my weekend experience…I’ll be thinking less of that beautiful and expensive 200 series!

 

[Rednexus]

$4200 or so will get you a built front and rear diff with Harrop e-lockers and any gear ratio you want from ECGS . They also warranty them up to 35's. Some say the problem with the 8" is really extra slop at high mileage, coupled with the GX getting built with big tires and other things. Perhaps a fresh, built 8" would be better. That is the route I will likely go at some point to have a GX that is even more bulletproof and capable.

The price delta from a GX470 to a 460 or 200 series is much more than $4,200, and neither would be triple locked

 

[HomersCanyonero]

$4200 or so will get you a built front and rear diff with Harrop e-lockers and any gear ratio you want from ECGS . They also warranty them up to 35's. Some say the problem with the 8" is really extra slop at high mileage, coupled with the GX getting built with big tires and other things. Perhaps a fresh, built 8" would be better. That is the route I will likely go at some point to have a GX that is even more bulletproof and capable.

The price delta from a GX470 to a 460 or 200 series is much more than $4,200, and neither would be triple locked

Good point.

 

[jiggletits]

8" is fine as long as you don't charge up your line like a dingus.

 

[Rednexus]

8" is fine as long as you don't charge up your line like a dingus.

Also using a locker should, in theory, reduce the chance of grenading something relative to A-TRAC, which can really shock-load things when a it engages during a hard-charge situation.

I would have no issue upgrading to an 8.2, but don't see the value on a GX like mine that will never see tires larger than 33's and probably never see hardcore offroading.

 

[GXO]

Plan to replace the 8". It WILL go in time. You can rebuild it, but if you get a rear locker you are there anyway and a locked 8.2 goes right in!

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Plan to replace the 8". It WILL go in time. You can rebuild it, but if you get a rear locker you are there anyway and a locked 8.2 goes right in!

That’s in my line of thinking. If I’m going to add a locker and regear, then I might as well do it on a 8.2”.

It’s the upgrade to make it more capable and while I’m in there mentality!

 

[HomersCanyonero]

8" is fine as long as you don't charge up your line like a dingus.

There was a section on the Little John Bull trail by what it’s known as the v-notch that I got a little gas pedal happy to bump me over the hill because I didn’t want to lose momentum while going up.

My friend also got the nerves and his wife was crying “no more…let’s go home!”

Unfortunately, I told them it was an easy trail compared to the real John Bull Trail. Then I said we must have gone the wrong way even though I knew it was the right trail. But they wanted to follow me.

Anyways, I was leading and didn’t want to get stuck in that section. I didn’t get videoed to confirm my suspicion that I was a dingus! I think I was going as fast as this 4R in my group.

2022 4Runner Takes Wrong Turn into Little John Bull in Big Bear

 

[GXO]

I wish I could make a wrong turn and end up on Little John Bull haha