Clutch Problem- SBC with Ranger OD and stock 4 speed (1 Viewer)

Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
I was finally able to start my 40 as part of my frame off restomod project. Sadly, when I press the clutch, I get bad rapid ticking sound. At first, I couldn't shift into any gear, but after some pedal and slave cylinder push rod adjustments, I can get it into gear and drive it. But I still get grinding when trying to shift into reverse. I replaced the clutch while I had the engine out, and I'm worried that i messed up the throw-out bearing installation.

Specs:

9/75 US market FJ40
Small block chevy crate engine
Advance Adapters Ranger Overdrive between the SBC and stock 4 speed
I'm using the FJ40 clutch master and slave, with an adapter from Advance Adapters that mounts the slave to the SBC bellhousing. I'm using a cast iron clutch fork.

Here's a video of the sound. It's unpleasant to say the least. In the video, I say I can't get it into gear. I later made some adjustments and now I can shift. But it still grinds a bit getting into reverse. I basically have no more adjustment in the slave push rod.


Here's a pic of the slave/etc:

IMG_20200607_152025.jpg


Here's a pic inside the bellhousing, looking down the clutch fork to the throw-out bearing. I pulled back the dust boot on the clutch fork- tough to get a good picture. Probably obvious, but the clutch plate is on the left side.

IMG_20200607_151023.jpg


Here's what the throw-out bearing looked like on tear down, to give you a sense for how the TO bearing should look. It worked fine before I took it apart, but I decided to replace the clutch and TO bearing while I had it out as preventative maintenance.

IMG_20180902_165304048.jpg



Any help you guys can provide will be deeply appreciated. I'm kind of freaking out.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
5,193
Location
Brea, Calif.
Ok, let me beat the dead horse another time:
1. Your stock Toyota slave cylinder produced only .420" of travel at the throw out bearing.
2. A Chevy clutch requires .500" of travel to disengage the clutch.
3. A LUK clutch requires only .400" of travel to disengage, but that's right out there at the edge, any wear on anything and you are in trouble.
4. My Downey Chevota "specific" clutch requires only .375" of travel to disengage. We didn't make this clutch merely to separate you from your pay check !!!!
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
Welp, that's a kick in the nuts.... I really wish I had done more research.

@Downey where do I find your clutch? I've been searching for some time but I'm coming up dry. Is there a vendor that sells it?

Also, I don't quite understand why I'm getting the ticking noise when I press the clutch. It's as if one finger is touching the TO bearing. after adjusting the clutch, I'm able to shift into all forward gears just fine. I just grind a bit when shifting into reverse.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
530
I have the sort of the same setup but with Marks adapter. I have the Centerforce clutch or Luk. What you are hearing is the throw out bearing just kissing the clutch. I would recommend adjusting your pedal until there is no play in the rod . I had just enough adjustment, but with the marks adapter I can thread the throw out bearing in and out to fine adjust it. Downey is right that his clutch would work better. I was thinking that a longer throw slave would be a fix if you could find one.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
5,193
Location
Brea, Calif.
I closed Downey Off Road Mfg. in 2009, but I have still sold a couple hundred Chevota clutches to guys here on Mud, I merely send you a PayPal invoice. To do this I need your postal zip code to determine postage, then your email address to send a PayPal invoice. My pressure plate and disc is $262.00 plus postage.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
I have the sort of the same setup but with Marks adapter. I have the Centerforce clutch or Luk. What you are hearing is the throw out bearing just kissing the clutch. I would recommend adjusting your pedal until there is no play in the rod . I had just enough adjustment, but with the marks adapter I can thread the throw out bearing in and out to fine adjust it. Downey is right that his clutch would work better. I was thinking that a longer throw slave would be a fix if you could find one.


Thanks. I have a little more adjustability. Since I took that video, I've been able to get it to shift just fine in all forward gears. It now only grinds a little going into reverse. So it's just really strange that I get the ticking sound throughout the whole travel of the pedal, because the clutch is sort of working... Which means the bearing is fully engaging all of the fingers... Otherwise I wouldn't be able to shift. So I can't figure out why it ticks while the pedal is to the ground.

I've read a few things about using a pre '69 clutch master. I need to do some more reading, because I don't understand how changing out the master will give the slave more travel.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
I closed Downey Off Road Mfg. in 2009, but I have still sold a couple hundred Chevota clutches to guys here on Mud, I merely send you a PayPal invoice. To do this I need your postal zip code to determine postage, then your email address to send a PayPal invoice. My pressure plate and disc is $262.00 plus postage.

Thanks. Does your clutch come with a throw out bearing and alignment tool as well?

And I know I'd be asking you to talk yourself out of a sale, but is there any credibility to the pre-'69 clutch master idea I read about? I've also seen vague references to using a brake master in place of the clutch, but my head is spinning at this point. I'd love to find a solution that doesn't involve pulling the motor. 😑
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
5,193
Location
Brea, Calif.
My clutch does not include a throw out bearing (which could differ depending upon which bellhousing you are using, relative to clutch fork pivot ball location/length). Normally my clutch builder does not give me an alignment tool, but last time they did, soooo I'll ask for um from now on.
My understanding is Toyota made 3 different Landcruiser slave cylinders, and they were matched to the master cylinder. Evidently if you miss matched your slave cylinder it could either take both feet to compress, with too little travel, or overly easy to compress with way too much travel ????
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
530
Mine would tick because the throw out bearing lever and adjustment sleeve on Marks adapter would not return all the way out. I need to add another spring to help it . Min will only do it sometimes with the clutch out in neutral. As soon as i touch the pedal it disappears. It scared because at first I thought it might be the start to a rod knock.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
yeah, that's exactly what I thought the sound was when I first started my truck (after 5 years of sitting, and being restored).

But the ticking only gets worse the more I push the clutch pedal. If it was the fingers on the clutch just barely kissing the throw-out bearing, then I would think the noise would go away as soon as the throw-out bearing is fully engaged. I'm getting enough engagement to easily shift the forward gears. But it only gets worse as I push the pedal.

I need to get under the truck while somebody else pushes the pedal to make sure it's not something stupid, like the dust shield touching something or rattling. With any luck, it's something stupid like that. Then I just have an issue of clutch travel. As I read more, I'm seeing that folks have had some success using earlier FJ40 clutch masters or single circuit brake masters. So I might try that before pulling the engine out.
 
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
96
Location
Ft Collins, Co
Pierps,

I have this same setup, SBC, Ranger, Toy 4 spd in my 69' project (bought AA clutch, have not finished got distracted) do you have a photo of your Ranger Shifter, I am at this step ?? (and axles.. and body... etc)
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
@rlong If you still have the engine out, learn from my mistake and make sure you really do your research on the right clutch!! I'm not familiar with the AA clutch, but I'd just buy @Downey 's clutch if I could do it over again.

Here's a pic up above. The shifter is in the high gear position here (aft). I'd actually like to figure out a way to bend or reposition the shift lever a bit, because it does come into contact with my right knee, especially when it's shifted into the low gear (forward) position. If you send me a private message with your email address, I can share my full google photos album with you. If you don't see any helpful pics there, I'm happy to take more for you this weekend.

Note that the Ranger was installed by the prior owner, so it was in the rig before I did my tear-down for the frame off. So I won't have a ton of answers for you. I have no idea if my installation is standard or not, but I can say that the engine is located really far forward in the engine compartment. I had to move the radiator forward to the point where it's almost touching the front grill in order to just barely fit in an Spal electric puller fan. The PO had an electric pusher fan on the front of the radiator, and I'd get really close to overheating on hot days in the summer ("hot" by Seattle standards is 90 degrees).

IMG_20200411_212012 (2).jpg
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
PS- to give you an idea of how far forward my engine is... this is how I had to locate my radiator. Pic is after mocking up the new puller fan, but before my tear-down and paint work.

IMG_20180408_193705509.jpg


This isn't a super helpful picture, but it gives you a rough idea of how much room I have between the engine and the firewall. I was able to easily fit my Sniper EFI computer here, with plenty of room to spare.

IMG_20200503_193304.jpg
 

Rice

SILVER Star
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
4,925
Location
GSO NC
PS- to give you an idea of how far forward my engine is... this is how I had to locate my radiator. Pic is after mocking up the new puller fan, but before my tear-down and paint work.

View attachment 2335662

This isn't a super helpful picture, but it gives you a rough idea of how much room I have between the engine and the firewall. I was able to easily fit my Sniper EFI computer here, with plenty of room to spare.

View attachment 2335663


I ran the Ranger setup for a while before swapping to an NV4500. Two things helped with the shifter location .... one was mounting the seat 2 inches farther back (I'm 6'3" so needed the room) and, as you mentioned, I heated and bent the shifter to a better angle.

Also worth noting ... In both my previous setup and now with the NV4500 I used the OEM master and slave cylinder and have plenty of clutch throw for smooth shifting and full disengagement. Adjusting the actuator rod in the master cylinder for maximum stroke can improve the throw considerably.

When setting the engine I went forward 7.5 inches in order to allow for longest possible driveshaft and proper shifter location. This far forward required pushing the radiator up to the grill as you did plus I have to run an early style short water pump.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
348
Location
Kingman, AZ
I ran the Ranger setup for a while before swapping to an NV4500. Two things helped with the shifter location .... one was mounting the seat 2 inches farther back (I'm 6'3" so needed the room) and, as you mentioned, I heated and bent the shifter to a better angle.

Also worth noting ... In both my previous setup and now with the NV4500 I used the OEM master and slave cylinder and have plenty of clutch throw for smooth shifting and full disengagement. Adjusting the actuator rod in the master cylinder for maximum stroke can improve the throw considerably.

When setting the engine I went forward 7.5 inches in order to allow for longest possible driveshaft and proper shifter location. This far forward required pushing the radiator up to the grill as you did plus I have to run an early style short water pump.
What clutch are you running?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
Thanks, that's helpful. I've adjusted the push rod on the slave about as far as I can. I can probably squeeze out a bit more free play from the pedal to see if I get more throw from that. But it's kind of a moot point now since I already bought the earlier model master cylinder. I'll be installing that today. Hopefully that gets me there.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
Got the new clutch master and slave from SOR installed, and it definitely solved the problem. Such a relief. The truck never shifted this easily before tear down.

Also, the noise in the video turned out to be a slightly bent flywheel dust cover. It was just close enough to the flywheel that the clutch pressure caused the flywheel to hit the dust cover in one spot.

Life is good! No need to pull the engine after all.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
5,193
Location
Brea, Calif.
Pierps, if you are using a pre 1969 clutch master, lemme know if you have any/much difference in clutch pedal pressure needed to disengage the clutch, I'm very interested.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
525
Location
Seattle
Pierps, if you are using a pre 1969 clutch master, lemme know if you have any/much difference in clutch pedal pressure needed to disengage the clutch, I'm very interested.

I would say it's about 25%-33% more pressure required. But it's completely fine. The OEM setup always felt a bit too soft or easy to me, so I actually prefer it.

For context, I'm a 40 year old 6'2" dude who works at a desk and doesn't exercise. 😋
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom