club run 8-10-13

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it's all good. lower and slower is better in a lot of cases when it comes to down hill descents. I rarely use my brakes when going down steep grades, but I also have dual cases so it can be really slow.
i'm by no means an expert wheeler, but I can hand out useful info from time to time. it's mostly about seat time and being able to take constructive criticism.
 
Criticize away, it's how I'll learn. Like I was telling the guys, I've been off roading a lot mostly desert dunes and unpaved dirt/mud terrains, but rocks are new to me.
 
I'd do a Hydroboost setup instead. You can get all the parts at your local junkyard off of a Chevy Astro van.

Mmmm. Hydroboost :-) I hope to run that in my 4runner eventually when it gets a diesel

The braking, turning and full pressured tires created quite a bit of pucker factor just sitting at my desk watching these. Driving it must of been something else. Wheeew.
Congrats on your descents gents!

The video doesn't do the hill justice... I had tires down to 17 PSI but they definitely needed to be lower. The moment you hit the brakes too hard you'd go sideways. I need gears pretty bad...
 
The braking, turning and full pressured tires created quite a bit of pucker factor just sitting at my desk watching these. Driving it must of been something else. Wheeew.
Congrats on your descents gents!

Holy crap! You guys didn't air down or put it in 4Lo when wheeling down that hill?
 
I was DEFINITELY in 4 lo... but it's not all that low when you're on 33s with a 3.21:1 final drive.

4lo tops out at 65mph
 
how does 4low top out at 65?!?!?!?!?!
 
6000 rpm redline, 2.72:1 transfer case, 3.21:1 diffs .797:1 6th gear, tires are 275/70/17

2.72*3.21*.797 = 6.959 so for every 6.959 engine revolutions, my axles turn once. 6000/6.959 puts my axles at 862.192 rpm

Tire circumference is 101 inches (I just plugged the numbers into a converter, didn't feel like doing the math). 862 rpm multiplied by 101 inch circumference turns into 87062 inches per minute. 63360 inches in a mile puts us at 1.374 miles per minute. 1.374*60 minutes for 1 hour and we're at an approximate 82 MPH in 4lo at the redline in 6th gear.

I've never gone THAT fast in 4lo, nor would I want to. But I have definitely hit 65 on the beach
 
6000 rpm redline, 2.72:1 transfer case, 3.21:1 diffs .797:1 6th gear, tires are 275/70/17

2.72*3.21*.797 = 6.959 so for every 6.959 engine revolutions, my axles turn once. 6000/6.959 puts my axles at 862.192 rpm

Tire circumference is 101 inches (I just plugged the numbers into a converter, didn't feel like doing the math). 862 rpm multiplied by 101 inch circumference turns into 87062 inches per minute. 63360 inches in a mile puts us at 1.374 miles per minute. 1.374*60 minutes for 1 hour and we're at an approximate 82 MPH in 4lo at the redline in 6th gear.

I've never gone THAT fast in 4lo, nor would I want to. But I have definitely hit 65 on the beach


That's a lot of numbers, a lot of numbers confuse me. Could you explain in pictures?:D:D

Yes the video does not do that hill justice. All the hills come out to small inclines in pictures and video for some reason.
 
top-speedfom.jpg


BAM!
 
The Hill

Well, as the Gwagen driver in the video, I thought I'd chime in.

I agree that it would have better to descend at a lower speed. I was already in 4-low, so lifting my foot off the brake wouldn't have gotten me anything other than a quicker descent. For me 1st gear is 4.043, the R&P's are 4.9, X-fer case low is 2.14, so with 32 inch tires I get something like a 45 to 1 engine RPM to tire RPM. It's not a dedicated buggy running 100 to 1 or better, so in this case all you can do is play the hand dealt 'ya.

Likewise, I had aired down to 30 psi (I normally run 45-50 on the street). OK, so maybe I should have dropped another 5-10 psi, but I doubt it would have made much of a difference with my skinny-ass 235 85 16's. My truck weighs 6,200 pounds, so at 20 psi, I loose almost two inches of ground clearance. I could have been more conservative with tire pressure, but I've wheeled Hidden Falls before, so at the staging area prior to the start, I simply chose the settings that served me well previously.

With all that said, I wasn't worried about breaking the front axle, I've had the truck twisted up with the full weight on either front wheel at full lock in both directions on numerous occasions in the past (with no damage). I was however somewhat worried about keeping the truck pointed downhill because I didn't want to roll. I haven't done a lot of hard off-camber wheeling since I installed the roof rack last fall and I wasn't sure how far my center of gravity had risen. There was certainly a pucker-factor involved but after driving the "Bronco" trail, I wasn't worried at all.

But back to the hill... Chalk up my performance to laziness and arrogance. it was the first obstacle of the day and as the outsider in the group I felt like I had something to prove with my cavalier descent. I didn't walk the obstacle to scout the appropriate line for MY truck. I hadn't watched the guide descend in the buggy. The result was that my [aftermarket] swing-away tire carrier got smacked on a ledge and broke off. In doing so it banged the left taillight (for which I happened to have a replacement). And through my own clumsiness I cracked the factory license-plate holder when I dropped the (now disconnected) spare tire to which it was attached. In any case the damages were minor and pretty much par-for-the course in a roadworthy truck on a "Level 4" obstacle.

The biggest take-away from this (at least for me) is ALWAYS scout your lines, especially if you're going first!

I'm looking forward to driving that hill again next time I go to HF. I'd also like to try and climb it.

I had a great time hanging out with y'all and hope to do so again. Maybe next time I won't be the only Gwagen in the group.

Regards,

-BRAH
 
6000 rpm redline, 2.72:1 transfer case, 3.21:1 diffs .797:1 6th gear, tires are 275/70/17

2.72*3.21*.797 = 6.959 so for every 6.959 engine revolutions, my axles turn once. 6000/6.959 puts my axles at 862.192 rpm

Tire circumference is 101 inches (I just plugged the numbers into a converter, didn't feel like doing the math). 862 rpm multiplied by 101 inch circumference turns into 87062 inches per minute. 63360 inches in a mile puts us at 1.374 miles per minute. 1.374*60 minutes for 1 hour and we're at an approximate 82 MPH in 4lo at the redline in 6th gear.

I've never gone THAT fast in 4lo, nor would I want to. But I have definitely hit 65 on the beach

It's awesome to see someone get technical here and the math is legit but I'm trying to understand why you would calculate this equation using the ratio of your 6th gear instead of 1st when talking about 4 lo.
 
Couple of things I would lke to say
First to Brah, I'm sorry you felt as if you needed to "prove yourself" to us. You are always welcome to join us no matter what your rig or sphincter can handle ;-)
Second to all that came out, I apologize again for leading you guys into trails that were harder than you planned. It's difficult for me to judge what is too steep or too rough since when I normally come up on a part of a trail that I don't remember I just shrug my shoulders as I put my rig in first gear and climb over it anyways. Like I said, yes I know my way around the ranch but I don't know it like the back of my hand. However I have always felt when you are wheeling with multiple rigs and have multiple spotters for safety its good to push your limits because that's when you learn and gain experience. Case in point maybe Big Red will break the habit of wheeling 2nd gear all the time and start using 1st gear. I hope nobody holds a grudge against me. I was honestly trying to keep it easy but not so much to be boring. I do think next time we need to spread out the experienced wheelers through the line up to help the newbies and keep the pack together.
Lastly, I have been wheeling for something like 15 years or so and still hardly any video of me doing any of these trails. I think I have a total of maybe 60 minutes of my rig over the past 15 years. I think I need to just hire a videographer to just record me all day. Lol
 
Shawn thanks for leading the group. i think you did fine. even with the down hill run. it really made folks think about what could happen if they did it (at least it did for me). as most of ya'll know i competed in calrok's and have been wheeling for more then 20 years. when i seen that hill i knew my rig with my gearing (even in low) was not low enuff not to have to be on my brakes the hole way down and i know how bad that can be. it was nice to see that most of use seen the same thing as i did (trouble). i have meet and seen so many N/B's on trail that they should't have been on. there was a guy that i wheeled with one time that had just gotten a new buggy and with out driving it on the trail a few times 1st. he jumped into our group and the 1st rock we came to. he flipped the buggy and we had to have him air vac out. he busted open his head. i was holding his scalp closed with blood all over the place. it was bad. so if there is any thing i can tell ya'll. get used to your rig. know what it can do and what you can handle before you go get hurt or roll the truck. what i like doing is find a guy with a rig as close to mine and follow him (close to the same size, weight, gearing, trans, etc. as my rig). try and run the same lines as he did or try and look for a better line. you don't have to be on some hard trail to lean how to drive. even on rocky roads you can lean some thing. focus on the way the truck acts when you roll over that rock or what it does when you hit that pot hole. you can lean alot for just driving on the dirt road. it's all about tire placement and knowing your limits. but when you can. try and move forward on your driving (baby steps) it can't hurt. i don't know every thing about wheeling no one really does (some act like it/talk talk like it). we are always learning. but i fill like i know enough to keep MY SELF out of trouble. one more thing about spotters. they can only tell you what line to take. it's up to you to know how to use it (gas, braking & steering). they can't do it for you. so if you end up braking don't blame them. but some times as your driving you can fill a better line and take it. as for me i really hate spotting i don't think i'm good at it (some would disagree). some folks can and some can't. the guy that spotted for me at comps was damn good but his driving was so so. the main thing is trust you spotter. with a good spotter you don't even need to look at any thing but him. thats a cool filling to zone into your spotter and only him and let him walk you up the rocks.

like a few have posted. put it in 1st and 4wd low going up or down. but if you (like me) run a Auto trans. well your just screwed. Auto trans suck for down hills (i want a standard).

the last run of the day i got my rear p/side flare (but it's not broken) and my wipe. not a bad day. i learned what the rig could do. that was the 2nd time i wheeled that rig and also the 2nd big rig i have ever wheeled.
there harder to drive them my buggys i had. you really need to be on the look out and really do drive the rig.

i hope we can do this again and maybe we can get a few more folks out also.
 

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