Climbing in snow

[brucepirger]

I have a '97 80 with lockers. I also have a 1000' driveway, through the woods, uphill, a switch back, and finally the house back in the woods. I have the Dueller Revo's.

My experience with the driveway and snow is that I climb up the hill best in 4H, unlocked. When I tried to play with 4L, locked, it seemed all I did was spin. I assume this is becuase there is more torque to the tires, and hence less go. Though, with the lockers, I figured I'd be trudging through anything.

Is it just a matter of less gas? I tried the start in second switch...didn't seem to make much of a difference. I had the kids with me in the truck, and I didn't play all that much, but I figured I'd ask.

I was going through maybe 12" of snow, the hill is pretty steep. In 4H, I just chugged right through, but in 4L with the lockers locked, I didn't seem to get up. Now, I tried the 4H after I tried the 4L, so I had made a few passes.

What's the "theory" on what should work best for climbing in snow? Thanks.

 

[Scamper]

Don't know about theory, but I have a pretty steep climb out of my driveway and was easily able to get thru about 18 inches or more of snow last year without lockers in 4H (the snow was actually deeper than the underside of the truck is high). I have Michelin SUV M/S tires. I used the CDL, but probably didn't need it. I even managed to pull a Montero out of a ditch on the side of this road on the hill. My guess is that unless you get stuck, you probably don't need to lock up.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

W/ the truck in L w/ the lockers locked all 4 wheels must turn the same speed. This is great for going in a straight line. However when you have to turn it REQUIRES the tires to break traction and slip. This isn't a big deal on dry dirt where traction is easily regained, but in the snow and ice, it hinders forward movement. W/ the diffs unlocked and in high range w/ the center diff UNlocked, the drivetrain can let the tires move at the different speeds necessary during turns and so on without breaking traction.

I hope that made sense...

 

[T Y L E R]

Does the '2nd Gear button work in L4 ?

 

[concretejungle]

I'm guessing here, but i think two things contributed to better movement with the lockers off. First, momentum. With 4H you carry more speed and momentum. Secondly, limted slip.....now, i'm not saying that your truck has limited slip equiped diffs, but what i mean is that with the lockers NOT engaged, the drivetrain has options on the transfere of power between wheels. As one wheel brakes loose, perhaps the momentum and the unlocked drive train allows the power to be transfered to a different wheel. When you are locked, first this means you are in low. Which means you have much less speed. Also, all the tires dig equally. So they often dig themselves down through the snow.....just speculation.

 

[Gauge]

Just wanted to share my weekend experience.....

As you know we got about 12 inches this weekend in Philadelphia. I was actually waiting for just such a snowy day to test the Cruiser's traction. I left the house telling the wife about how the Cruiser is "unstuckable" and that I wanted to have some fun playing in the snow.

I drove in 4H through the snow quite well. I kept testing the limits by driving through snow drifts to see how bad it would have to be before I would get stuck. Well eventually I did get stuck. I tried rocking back and forth a little in 4H and I could see that was working OK, but I wanted to test the lockers so I shifted to 4 low and locked em up. To my surprise, this made it worse. At least in 4H I was moving a little bit, but in 4L with lockers locked, the Cruiser just sat there like a lazy dog. I was in total disbelief and thought for a minute that the lockers didn't engage, so I climbed out with the Cruiser in drive (while running) and walked completely around the vehicle and watched as all 4 tires spun around going nowhere. WTF?

Keep in mind that I was driving in a straight line and all 4 tires were pointing in the same direction. A guy watching me from across the street came out of his house with a shovel and offered to dig me out. Talk about embarrasing. He even commented to me while digging that "he thought for sure this thing would have had 4 wheel drive".

When I got home, I found out the wife decided to watch me through the window. She laughed the entire time while I felt like an idiot.

The only thing I can say (in my defense) is that I have worn tires and they look more like car tires than off road tires.

What's worse is that I then took my 1995 Tacoma out (just for kicks) which also has 4 wheel drive and open diffs front and rear and drove through the same snow drifts and I didn't get stuck once. The Tacoma has new 31" BF Goodrich AT's.

I'm starting to think it might have been a bad idea on my part to pass up on the 50 or so beautiful Cruisers I found in the 2 years that I was looking until I found mine with Lockers. So far all you guys out there with out lockers, you might not be missing out on much in terms of traction......

I remember once talking to a guy that used to build rigs for mud racing. He told me the secret to success is to keep the vehicle as light as possible. "Only the light ones make it to the finish line, the heavy ones all sink", he told me. I wonder if there is any truth to that statement? My Tacoma weighs around 2800 lbs, the Cruiser around 6000.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

The problem with using low range is that you have too much torque and it breaks traction too easily....

 

[MTNRAT]

Bruiser: Tires, Tires, Tires. Tires are the easiest performance modification to make.
Cheers,
Sean

 

[Heffenoche]

IMO tires are one of the most important elements in driving in the snow. From my experience lockers are bad in the snow and can make you lose traction especially on turns. I only turn my lockers on in the snow when I’m exercising my lockers but don’t use it for traction. I usually just drive completely unlocked in the snow and will occasionally lock the center diff if I feel I need additional traction but I’m not sure it really helps.

Also I have found that if I’m running in Hi, lock the center diff then I can also lock the front and rear diffs. So I’m running locked in 4wd-Hi.

And weight is bad for mud, that is why we hate it.

 

[Doc]

The problem with using low range is that you have too much torque and it breaks traction too easily....

ding ding ding, we have a wienner!


The boy speaks the truth, you would have been better off leaving it in 4H.

 

[ace10]

97LB-

at the end of your story you included the most important fact... you have BAD TIRES!!!!

i too ventured out in the snow this weekend. and i too got my LC stuck. i have oe mich ltx's. of course i have dedicated snow tires sitting in the garage, nice and warm and dry, i just haven't bothered to put them on. i've driven through much worse than this weekend with the winter tires and have never gotten stuck. that's not to say that they're a cure-all, but bald or a hireway tire is generally not going to cut in in the slippery conditions.

get some new tires.

$0.02

aaron

 

[Gauge]

I didn't think tires would have made THAT much of a difference - especially with lockers.

I am waiting on the delivery of my ARB bumper which I need to install before I get new tires. My old bumper is bent and it will certainly rub if I install 305's. The bumper should be delivered by this Monday.

I would ask what tires everyone recommends, but I don't want to be FLAMED by Junk. I'll gladly use the search function instead.

 

[brucepirger]

I can only share the laughter your wife enjoyed in that story...but I understand how you feel! The Revo's I thought would be as good as it gets for an "all season" snow tire. No doubt snow's are better, but I can't drop $1K for two sets.

Yes, torque I assume is the killer in low on snow....and 4H chugged right through.


Thanks for the words folks....time to play tonight.

 

[Steve C]

Static friction- friction force developed between objects that are not moving relative to each other

Dynamic friction - friction force developed between objects that are moving relative to each other

Static friction is greater than dynamic friction. Have you ever pulled someting and noticed that it takes a little extra effort to just to get it unstuck and start the motion. That is a manifestation of this effect.

With the LC locked, unless the tires are exactly the same diameter and you are going perfecly strait, the tires are sliding around and the lower dynamic friction is at work.

Unlocked, the differentials allow the tires to "stick" a little bit and give a little extra traction.

 

[wb1948]

Everytime I go up my drive way, I air down to about 8 psi, hit my power button, get up to 30 or 40 mph and shoot up my steep drive way, get about a foot of air, and land. Then after bottoming out my rims, I air back up. I repeat this process three or four times a day. Here in texas its really snowy

 

[tiorio]

Geez, there are two variables being changed in almost every story here.

1) High vs. Low

2) Unlocked vs. Locked

There are valid points regarding each above (and probably below before too long) but lets make sure we're looking at both points seperately as they both have different effects on traction in those conditions...extra torque from being in low and Steve's points about friction...which are interesting to say the least!

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Bruce, I forgot to add, I went wheelin last weekend in about 8" of snow, and I also have the Revo's. There were several hillclimbs that were solid sheets of ice w/ the 8" of snow on top of that! That was the only time I used the locker, but still in high. Low didn't do me any good whatsoever, just slid me all over the place. Aside from that, the Revo's did AWESOME! Other trucks w/ BFG ATs(another excellent snow tire IMO) were struggling to keep up with me on off-camber sections and hill-climbs. The Revos just stuck and went.

Also I would recommend leaving it in high range(CDL switch on if you have one) and only use the lockers if individual wheels are sitting there spinning and the opposite wheel having drive would get you out. If you have the CDL installed and want to turn the lockers on in high, shift the truck into low range, engage the lockers, and then put it back in high(all w/ the CDL on). The lockers will stay on until you turn them off or disengage the CDL. I believe you can even turn the front off and back on with no ill effects while still in high range, just don't unlock the rear or you have to go back down to low to engage it again.

Ary

 

[PHAEDRUS]

this kind of varies by snow condition as well.
back home in SLC, sped saved your bacon in the snow. you needed to keep the momentum up pretty good and then you were fine.

Now here in the good ole pac norwest, I found the best thing to go through deep wet snow was to put it in low and idle through it all. as long as you are not spinning any wheels you will continue to move in whatever direction you are pointed in. as soon as you gas it your done. SO there is another variable of what type of snow you encountered.
Dave

 

[snowcruiser]

Bruiser

I've used my LC80 in all sorts of SNOWY conditions and only occasionally have I ever used the lockers...mostly to do donuts. However...you did not waste your time or money as the lockers are priceless if you ever get into a situation where one or more wheels is off the ground or light on the ground...this is why all the rock crawling crowd demands them. You will be amazed what they will get you through in the right instance. I've climbed hills that were impossible in an unlocked rig with ease...and gone over obstacles with barely three wheels on the ground. If you really want to move in the snow I would recommend not only large siped tires but also tire chains. I played with mine this past week-end and they allowed me to traverse an off-camber hill through 30 inch snowdrifts...unbelievable. It was light snow but the truck plowed through it with ease. I couldn't even get the truck lined up without the chains let alone make it across the 100 yard section. A buddy's Tacoma with 33" BFGs barely made it to the section and didn't get as far as I got before I put my chains on so weight is not always a hinderence. If you really like to travel in the snow like I do get some tire chains...you won't regret it.

 

[MTNRAT]

Ice Radial.
Nuff Said,
Sean