China-free in 2008

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OK...I am trying to pull this conversation back from the dark side.

I'm on a quest to find the "best" products made by the "best" companies that I can find. I'm partial to some Japanese products but during the 80's folks were having the same conversations about Japan...granted communism wasn't on the table but the American worker thought his job was...and the Japanese style of business is much different than the western tradition which made Japan hard to contend with. In the end the social welfare for companies in Japan led to years of recession.

China is just now seeing the effects of its rise to industrial dominance. Their rivers and cities are polluted to the point it is dangerous to swim or live in parts of China. Many of the problems come from recycling the rest of the worlds trash. To feed the country pesticides are used that have been banned in Europe and America for years. Now China is hand pollinating fruit because there are no bees to do the work for them...China will reap what they sow, but so will we.

I read this piece today and thought of this post.
Why my family stopped boycotting Chinese goods | csmonitor.com

Here is the crux of the piece...
...we are too closely tied to China to think that we can turn our backs on it. The boycott taught me that self-reliance, at the level of the family and the nation, is a thing of the past. Nobody relinquishes independence without a fight, or at least a sigh. But that is what we have done, quietly and irreversibly, in turning to China and the rest of the world for so much of what we want and need at the bargain prices we have come to expect.

"Bargain prices" is the key...

It's hard to come to terms with our values vs our pocket books. Personally I don't like how Sam Walton, and later his family, have run their business so I suggest my wife shops at Target...the heartless bastards who kicked the bell ringers off their properties a few years back...see I can't win. There aren't any "good guys" with a national presence anymore.

Good luck with the boycott. Pleas let us know how it goes...
 
I think the path this is really going to lead me down is the path of buying less, period. I think thats the way I'll be headed. How much "stuff" do I really need.
I load my own bullets, I brew my own ale, I grow my own peppers and eggplants and oranges, we may be heading down the path of minimalist and more self reliance. I'm trying save some money aside to convert my house to solar in the future. It would be almost impossible to avoid China altogether, but maybe there are a lot of things we can just do without from now on.
I've recently learned that in 2009 I will no longer get TV. I'm not sure that bothers me to much. We don't have cable and we have a perfectly good tube TV thats only about 4 years old. Why should I be forced to get an HDTV and cable just to watch the news. I guess we'll make that decision when the time comes.

We'll see what the future holds. We did avoid China for Christmas this year. It cost a little more, but we purchased less than we have in the past.

Happy holidays to everyone! :cheers:
 
I agree with both Baggins and Britton.
Britton pointed out a couple of things about Japan. Baggins said similar things about China.
I have just read a book copyrighted in 1992 that raised red flags about Japan. It described war-like business practices coming from the Orient. I remember 1992. Japan was buying up American business and Real Estate at alarming rates. They would usually pay several times the market value in price and compensation (read as bribes). They thought that their forceful business manners would work here.
They were deeply wrong. By '94-'97 the Japanese were selling off American Real Estate at 10-30 cents on each dollar invested. They lost their a--... tail feathers on the deal! It served them right, and cost them billions of dollars!
China is now learning this same hard lesson. You do not mess with the American market! As a pro, I can afford to wear out three Chinese tools for the price of an American tool. But I will buy only American toys for my little girl. Tools are a small market. Toys are huge! Only a few people buy tools, but everybody buys toys for kids. Power tools are bought mostly by professional service personnel. But everybody has a child, or has one in the family. We all buy toys. There is a baby boom in the US, and we all buy more toys than anything else.
China has shown its true colors in the lack of safety in the toys that they manufacture. They use poisonous forms of plastic, lead paint, and such things. This will not work in a free market. Kids' toys are the largest single market in the world today.
Orientals do not understand free markets. Their business models are based on conformity. Ours are based on individual choice. They cannot comprehend this.
Tools are a small market compared to toys. Contracters do not chew on the handles of drill-drivers or chop saws. But kids put toys in their mouths. China has spent millions of dollars to tool up to supply the current American toy market. Because of shoddy workmanship, they stand to lose all of that investment. I will not shed a single tear.
The market is just what it is. If the Chinese attitude can't compete, so be it. They may learn, as the Japanese did before them, that you cannot beat American public opinion. If we do not like your attitude, we will not buy your toys. Get over it! That's Biz.
 
so just that we all are not confused,, tools are a smaller market than toys right??:flipoff2:


and also dont confuse poor quality or unsafe materials to the asian not understanding a free market cause thats got very little to do with it. some of the very best products in the world come from, how do we say it, crappy countries?
 
Yes, they are!
When you have the youngest of kids, the attention span is very short. They look at toys as something that lasts two to three weeks at best. The attention span is that long! Christmas gifts are outgrown at record speeds! MP3 players are outdated every six months!
My daughter is six - going on to ten. Her span is six months on a single toy, at best. Her attention span is improving. Her MP3 is ok for a year. No more!
The Chinese have tooled up to supply this market. The quickly changing needs of American children. They have spent many millions to supply this market.
Like the Japanese before them, the Chinese have become overconfident. The Japanese became overconfident in U.S. Real Estate in the '90's and lost their A--..Tail feathers, or so to speak. So will the Chinese. The Chinese have become overconfident in the American market without learning enough about us. This is the same mistake that they accused us of making when we entered their market. They assume that we do not learn! But we do learn.
We have certain government agencies that we all revile that control imported products. They do the best that they can, but some things slip by. Chinese lead-based paints in kids' toys. Salmonella in the chicken. Mercury in fish supplies.
The American backlash is coming. Chinese supplies are black-listed. The only Chinese products that are saleable in the west are tools, a small part of their market.
The American and Western European market is the only consistent market for Chinese goods. Much of the Oriental market is in food goods. There is a strong market for Chinese and Japanese food. Yet much of the breeding area for such foods is filled with sewage. The Orient is filled with pollution. They have limited ecological controls at best. The rivers are poisoned.
The Orient is the most polluted area in the world. Many of the great rivers there are incapapable of sustaining life. Yet we buy increasingly large amounts of food that claims to be harvested from those rivers. We call it all Chinese food. Much of it is rice. Do we prefer polluted rice to the cleaner varieties?
Most of the "oriental" food served in the US is US grown because the Orient is too polluted to have its food served within the US or Western Europe under USFS law. Most European nations open themselves to American concepts of drug and grain qualitity and quantities as well as meat needs in diet requirements. All of us agree on a regular meat requirement. We all agree on a regular vegetable and fruit need. We try to hide the fact that we all need to eat some Brocolli
Of course, we all hate rice, we do not like fried beef, nor do we like mongolian sweet sauce! No worries!
 
Brian Macgyver said:
The American backlash is coming. Chinese supplies are black-listed. The only Chinese products that are saleable in the west are tools, a small part of their market.
Click to expand...

Where exactly do you get this info? Chinese goods, of all kinds are everywhere. And yes, the Chinese tools suck! I've never had one I didn't break. I guess you think it's OK to buy a s*** quality tool once a year and toss it in the landfill, instead of 1 tool that will last a lifetime. Rather wasteful IMO.
 
MaddBaggins said:
Where exactly do you get this info? Chinese goods, of all kinds are everywhere. And yes, the Chinese tools suck! I've never had one I didn't break. I guess you think it's OK to buy a s*** quality tool once a year and toss it in the landfill, instead of 1 tool that will last a lifetime. Rather wasteful IMO.
Click to expand...

You are right to a point. For the homeowner, a tool is a long-term investment. I am a remodeler. If I buy a 10" compound slide mitre saw, it is a short-term tool. I can buy Ryobi or Porter-Cable for $500 and it will last two years. Then it is worn out. The bearings are gone and the tool is not useful. Or I can buy it from Harbor Freight for $100, and use the tool for 1 year, then donate it to Habitat for Humanity and buy a new one. They sell it off and use the money for a good cause. It is more cost-effective for me that way. If I am going to wear out power tools for a living, I may as well buy them cheap, and donate them while they still have value. That way someone other than me may benefit.
My chop saws, framing nailers, finish nailers, disc grinders, portable table saws, etc have short service lives whether I buy name brands or not. Habitat for Humanity gets use of the tools after I finish with them. Those discarded tools benefit many people.
I earn on average, $6,000 with a single chop saw that costs me $100. Then I donate it to Habitat, and buy a new one. I don't even bother to claim the donation. That is biz.
 
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