Charouleau Gap on 3/5/06?

[MaddBaggins]

Looks like a lot of stuff happening in March. Due to prior commitments I can't make the TTORA deal. Would anybody be interested in coming to Tucson area on March 4th to run C-gap?
I have only run it once and will do my best to lead, unless someone else would be a better choice. The trail itself is 20 miles so plan on all day. It will be dry and probably hot so be prepared.
Post up if any interest. Due to some crud at work, I won't be able to check in to MUD all that often for a while. So if I don't answer up to any questions, patience please. If I get at least a few people interested, we'll do it!

Shotts, can you post up the location of that Circle K we met at last time. I know how to drive there but don't know any street names to give people directions.


***************UPDATE!!!***************
OK lets make it 8:30 at the meeting place in Shotts post on Sunday the 5th of March, lets head out by 9am. I guess CB channel 4 will work. I bought a Topo of the area and will bring my GPS. Like I said, I have only done the trail once, if anybody else who knows it better wants to lead, please do. If anyone needs to contact me 520-2 zero 7- 22 niner fore in the evening or at work 520-7 niner 5- zero 296 b4 3:30. Bring food and drink and camera and plan on all day.

 

[-Spike-]

I could go on Sunday the 5th. Don't know if you were set on Saturday, so I thought I'd mention it. I've got to watch my daughter Sat. while my wife works.

-Spike

 

[fj40frk]

I could probably do the 4th or 5th. Let me know what you guys decide so I can do some tuning. I will need directions as I have never run the gap before.

 

[import silvia]

hmmmm. that sounds pretty sweet. I have not been out there in years. I am good for the 4th or the 5th.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Looks like a lot of stuff happening in March. Due to prior commitments I can't make the TTORA deal. Would anybody be interested in coming to Tucson area on March 4th to run C-gap?
I have only run it once and will do my best to lead, unless someone else would be a better choice. The trail itself is 20 miles so plan on all day. It will be dry and probably hot so be prepared.
Post up if any interest. Due to some crud at work, I won't be able to check in to MUD all that often for a while. So if I don't answer up to any questions, patience please. If I get at least a few people interested, we'll do it!

Shotts, can you post up the location of that Circle K we met at last time. I know how to drive there but don't know any street names to give people directions.

Oracle Circle K just off AZ77 on the north side of the road about 1/2 mile from the AZ77 turnoff. The LEXUS might be ready though we MIGHT be in Phx instead.

IF we're not in Phx we might be might make Sat but can't Sunday.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I could go on Sunday the 5th. Don't know if you were set on Saturday, so I thought I'd mention it. I've got to watch my daughter Sat. while my wife works.

-Spike

#1) Bring the kid! I'll have Zoe along as usual. The Gap is the only trail I have ever done w/o her. This time she's coming.

#2) I talked with Tools earlier today and he might make it for sunday the 5th so if you guys are down lets call it sunday the 5th

#3) My man John has provided the locale for the meeting place and we can meet at say 8-9 am.

I have a couple of buddies from work who may come along. One has an old Ford p/u lifted a bit on 33's and the other has an old GMC p/u lifted on 33's I think. Both of them are fond of telling me stories about years ago when they went into the Gap, while it was flooded, to rescue a Toyota p/u. I told them I have a good tow strap we can use to haul out the Ford and GMC.
I'm excited, this is gonna be fun

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

#1) Bring the kid! I'll have Zoe along as usual. The Gap is the only trail I have ever done w/o her. This time she's coming.

#2) I talked with Tools earlier today and he might make it for sunday the 5th so if you guys are down lets call it sunday the 5th

#3) My man John has provided the locale for the meeting place and we can meet at say 8-9 am.

I have a couple of buddies from work who may come along. One has an old Ford p/u lifted a bit on 33's and the other has an old GMC p/u lifted on 33's I think. Both of them are fond of telling me stories about years ago when they went into the Gap, while it was flooded, to rescue a Toyota p/u. I told them I have a good tow strap we can use to haul out the Ford and GMC.
I'm excited, this is gonna be fun

I have two C Gap challenges for your non-Toyota friends and we'll see who rescues who.

The first....NO YOU CAN'T MOVE DOWN TO THE RIGHT!
The second.... NO YOU CAN'T TAKE THE BYPASS!

Just kidding. Send them this link.

 

[-Spike-]

#1) Bring the kid! I'll have Zoe along as usual. The Gap is the only trail I have ever done w/o her. This time she's coming.

Someday she'll be my navigator, but right now she's a year old, not walking or talking, and requires a lot of attention. Probably won't appreciate being strapped in a chair staring at the ceiling eating dust and bouncing around like crazy for 10 hours. All right, she might enjoy the bouncing.

I appreciate you changing the date, I'd personally much rather wheel on Saturday and fix stuff- I mean rest on Sunday, but the wife gets paid well for Saturdays, and if not for that I might have to work . It'll be nice to see some LC's on a trail again. Even if I do have to drive down to Mexico to join you guys...

-Spike

 

[MaddBaggins]

It'll be nice to see some LC's on a trail again. Even if I do have to drive down to Mexico to join you guys...

-Spike

Hey now, it's not Mexico! In fact this trail is a bit closer to you than the last time you came down here to run with me. My 2 coworkers are pretty psyched and I'm itchin to go. The last couple of weekends I've been working on the drywall in my garage. I hope to finish taping it this weekend then I can set up the workshop.

I didn't take Zoe on any wheeling trips until she was about 2 or so and sitting in the forward position. By then she was pretty strong and could handle the ride. She's a little over 3 now and asks me almost every week if we can go 4 wheeling. TOO COOL.

 

[goodtimes]

I'll be running the 'gap tomorrow if anyone is interested..... meeting @ Chevron, Oracle and Magee @ 9:00am.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Alvin: When ya meeting in Oracle? 8 or 9? I'm not sure if I can make it or not but the LEXUS IS DONE!

Brian: If I can't make it I might try and join the start of your run.

 

[goodtimes]

uh...john? read the date that I posted...the trip was today....so if you go tomorrow, don't wait for me....I'll be at work from 7 to 7....

 

[MaddBaggins]

Update

Read first post for update


John, I hope you can make it! If you do and you don't mind, could you lead? Otherwise I can get us thru, but you are much more familiar with the trail than me.
fj40frk
import silvia
spike
tools
shotts
I hope to see all of you there. Everybody, sound off if you are gonna be there.

 

[Tools R Us]

8:30 is early for us slackers from the north! At least the meeting place is a bunch closer for us.

OK, I will be there!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Well, you can tell I was preoccupied yesterday. I didn't get Goodtime's day right. I see now Alvin's C-Gap is the 5th (not tomorrow). Oh boy.....and by the way....the Lexus sucks above 55MPH. It's not tolerable.

I'm thinking I should just buy the front arms and swap to 6" springs. That way I'll have the entire 6" kit so all should line up. Spike? Whatcha think?

 

[-Spike-]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?p=965206#post965206

Curious, what maintenance have you done to the axles? I'm not necessarily doubting them, but it would be nice to check them off the big list of 'stuff that may make Shotts' LC vibrate'.

Another thing, you're not being extremely anal about vibrations, right? The ride should be relatively smooth, but it ain't no Caddy. This is definitely a mechanical problem you are facing?

I know not all 80's are identicle, but they should be close enough for a known setup to work on all of them. The factory setup works on all of them. I can't speak for the angle of the front arms, but the spacing of the bushing eyes on Slee's arms was exact. I assume there's some quality control on his end to ensure that various parts are within standards, like spring heights, control arm lengths and angles, etc. All the parts I received looked to be (and have proven to be) of very good quality. Some stuff gets through, especially as the parts get more complex (like the DC driveshaft) but as long as the consistency is there in the main components, the end result should be the same regardless of which truck it goes on, all other things (like wear on items like the rear driveshaft, axles, tires and wheels, etc) being the same.

Personally, if I wanted a 4" lift, I'd make sure I did everything possible to give that a chance to work, especially if other people have had total success with 4" lifts. Now, if you find that people are having issues getting a 4" lift to work, I'd ditch the idea and go with something proven, like a 3 or 6". If a 4" lift is usually trouble-free, I'd have to go back over everything and find out why it wasn't working for me. If it's really just because 'every 80 isn't the same' (which for this application I believe is not relevant) then a 6" isn't necessarily going to work either. For example, if you have frame damage for some reason (making your 80 'not the same' as factory spec, for sure) then a different lift kit ain't gonna do the trick. Might even amplify the problem, as in this scenario the damage might not show up as a vibration in the stock configuration, but as you increase the angles on stuff like control arms and drivelines the deviation from stock specs in the frame might be magnified.

If you do go the 6" route, I hope like heck it works for you. I can imagine you're pretty frustrated by this time.

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?p=965206#post965206

Curious, what maintenance have you done to the axles? I'm not necessarily doubting them, but it would be nice to check them off the big list of 'stuff that may make Shotts' LC vibrate'.

**We still need to re-build and service the front axles, however we'll all pretty certain based on all the trail-and-error that we've been chasing driveline problems. We had it good to go, then it went to hell when we added the front D/C shaft on Friday. (More below)

Another thing, you're not being extremely anal about vibrations, right? The ride should be relatively smooth, but it ain't no Caddy. This is definitely a mechanical problem you are facing?

**Excellent question to ask ME. I'm actually not and have used Becky as my double-checker. Nope....my '93 has a smoooth driveline ride just like the Lexus had before I lifted it. All I want is a normal 80 though I understand at 5-6" there might be some added noises. My high-speed noise/vibe problem is bad.

I know not all 80's are identicle, but they should be close enough for a known setup to work on all of them. The factory setup works on all of them. I can't speak for the angle of the front arms, but the spacing of the bushing eyes on Slee's arms was exact. I assume there's some quality control on his end to ensure that various parts are within standards, like spring heights, control arm lengths and angles, etc. All the parts I received looked to be (and have proven to be) of very good quality. Some stuff gets through, especially as the parts get more complex (like the DC driveshaft) but as long as the consistency is there in the main components, the end result should be the same regardless of which truck it goes on, all other things (like wear on items like the rear driveshaft, axles, tires and wheels, etc) being the same.

**It was a smoothmobile when we bought it. It has all new tires, U-joints, blah blah, need to do the front axle and fix that rear main seal leak (that's not bad yet).

Personally, if I wanted a 4" lift, I'd make sure I did everything possible to give that a chance to work, especially if other people have had total success with 4" lifts. Now, if you find that people are having issues getting a 4" lift to work, I'd ditch the idea and go with something proven, like a 3 or 6". If a 4" lift is usually trouble-free, I'd have to go back over everything and find out why it wasn't working for me. If it's really just because 'every 80 isn't the same' (which for this application I believe is not relevant) then a 6" isn't necessarily going to work either. For example, if you have frame damage for some reason (making your 80 'not the same' as factory spec, for sure) then a different lift kit ain't gonna do the trick. Might even amplify the problem, as in this scenario the damage might not show up as a vibration in the stock configuration, but as you increase the angles on stuff like control arms and drivelines the deviation from stock specs in the frame might be magnified.

**Well, from what I've learned a lot depends on how you lift it. For example....had I of thrown on J-springs and NOT corrected caster with Slee 4* plates I probably would not of had any vibe issues and the thing would have been done 2 months ago. (like Tools) Everybody talked me into caster correction, so I did it and like Slee said....if I correct it I'll need a D/C shaft. Well, that alone has not corrected the issue and the saga continues.

If you do go the 6" route, I hope like heck it works for you. I can imagine you're pretty frustrated by this time.

**Here's what we looked at again yesterday (since the good D/C shaft didn't fix): We drooped and lifted up the front end while checking for the proper D/C shaft geometry. What we need is for the shaft to be 90* from the front diff flange. Right now, I'm not there so the shaft/truck vibrates. To get there we could see that we need more lift. I suspect those softer J's do not raise the front as much as 4" Slee's springs despite me having 20mm packers in there. SO, TOMORROW....we're going to slap the 1.25" spacers in the front and re-drive. I'll bet the ride is FAR improved or solved. If so, I'll trim the back to level and be done. If there's some vibration left and we still need more lift....I'll rip the J's and spacers out, as well as the 4" Slee caster plates and slap on the 6" springs and arms and that should finish me. (Knowing my luck I'll need a D/c rear shaft too) Gotta try the spacers first because I have them now and the labor cost to do it is little.

HEY SPIKE...gotta an idea? Can your measure for me? How far from from the center of your hub (wheel cap center, wheel bearing cover cap center, whatever) straight up to your fender flair? I'll compare to mine. Gracias

-Spike

GREAT QUESTIONS....especially knowing who you're referring too! I'll answer above Spike.

 

[-Spike-]

What are these 'flares'?

25 5/8ths give or take an eighth, center of hub gease cap to fender lower lip. This truck, however, has been in multiple collisions, so take that measurement with a grain of salt.

With my understanding of how caster can affect a vehicle, I would do everything I could to make sure mine was within spec if I were going to run on road and/or with other's lives at stake.

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

What are these 'flares'?

25 5/8ths give or take an eighth, center of hub gease cap to fender lower lip. This truck, however, has been in multiple collisions, so take that measurement with a grain of salt.

With my understanding of how caster can affect a vehicle, I would do everything I could to make sure mine was within spec if I were going to run on road and/or with other's lives at stake.

-Spike

Gracias.

I'm 23 3/4 on drivers and just over 24 on passenger. So my 1.25" spacers will take me to say 25.25 or in "Slee numbers"...a 5.25" lift. That's close enough to you I'll bet the vibes go away. My caster was 3.3 before so I'll be I'm at around 2 (lower limit). We'll see how it goes. If it's smooth I'm done. If it's not I'll Slee Spring and Arm the sucker. Thanks Ben! Those numbers show me I can't get any higher short of getting your springs.

 

[Tools R Us]

I if helps, mine is 25" right and 24.75" left.