Chains for recovery? (1 Viewer)

[RiverRatMatt]

I don't have a winch yet, or friends to wheel with frown but want to carry something to self-rescue, primarily in snow. I have a Hi-Lift, a couple shackles, and a 3'' tow strap. I was thinking a good option might be a chain that I can attach between the cruiser and Hi-Lift, with the strap on a the anchor point. From here I could use the Hi-lift to ratchet myself out.

Is this a good idea? If so, what should I look for in chains? Are cheap 3/8'' chains okay for this application?

I'm looking at getting a Bog Out, and will eventually have a winch, but in the mean time this seems like the cheapest option.

 

[ChaserFJ60]

When I do a recovery I always assume my equipment will fail, if a chain snaps it will rip your head off if you're in its path. Personally I have very little experience with chains other than towing people down streets, but for a lightweight alternative i would get a recovery strap. If you use chains then common sense is key, ask yourself whats it rated for and dont do yanking recovery's. Also winching with a hi-lift is damn near impossible as i know from experience.

this guy has other videos that cover nearly all types of 4x4 recovery's.

 

[bigredmachine]

chains are good but you can get a strap that's going to be equally strong and much lighter. pulling out of snow drifts isn't going to be as high a load as pulling out the truck sunk up to the frame in mud and clay so n need to go with a strap or chain rated for 50k lb

 

[RiverRatMatt]

I just realized I could attach my Hi-Lift directly to the truck with a shackle. I have a 4'' riser hitch in with the ball removed to give me a good, high recovery point on the rear. I can then use my strap (which is much safer, as mentioned) attached to the other end and the anchor with my other shackle.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Using a hi lift as a winch is great in theory, in practice not so great. They are heavy and cumbersome to set up

A chain world be better than a strap as it won't stretch at all. Plus with some shortening hooks, is easy to reset the chain length after each pull.
Having hooks you can shackle to the hi lift or vehicle will make it easier

 

[ChaserFJ60]

Using a hi lift as a winch is great in theory, in practice not so great. They are heavy and cumbersome to set up

A chain world be better than a strap as it won't stretch at all. Plus with some shortening hooks, is easy to reset the chain length after each pull.
Having hooks you can shackle to the hi lift or vehicle will make it easier

Agreeed on the hilift winch.
But dont you want some stretch in a line to avoid a shock load? Whats the benefit in stretch vs no stretch?

 

[mudgudgeon]

If it's a dead pull with a winch, shock loading is not usually relevant.
You'll get a shock load if you're yanking a vehicle out of a bog with another vehicle

 

[subzali]

Have used a hi lift to winch once. It worked but took a while.

winching or hi lift winching is a static pull, so you want no stretch, so use a chain or winch line/winch extension. You are not going to generate enough force to break a chain using a hi lift, or even most winches for that matter. 40k lb rated chain will rip apart your vehicle before it breaks in a static pull.

snatching with another vehicle is a dynamic pull, and for this you do want stretch with a snatch strap or kinetic line. The momentum of the recovery vehicle is absorbed into the “rubber band” of the recovery line, which in turn transmits that force in a gradual manner to the stuck vehicle so as to minimize the risk of breaking anything. If you were to use a static line in this scenario then you are bound to break something from the shock loads imparted.

 

[cruiserpilot]

There is always a tendency to ‘yank’ or ‘jerk’ no matter what you’re doing. A short link of chain
as pictured above can be really handy and there’s weld on hooks that you can link a chain onto
so it’s a known fixed position without any fear of movement or slipping.
But even if your recovery strap or rope is for dynamic loading, using it in short lengths in a static
situation isn’t going to make for a stretchy jack lift. Probably wouldn’t even sense the stretch.
But dynamic straps and ropes are infinitely lighter in weight, more versatile and easier to use.
So in the end I’d suggest one or two dynamic straps of different lengths and short chain or short
soft shackles for tying off.
One complete reason for chain. It won’t cut across a sharp steel or rock edge, so if that’s possible
then having chain is more desirable.

 

[Charlie Aubin]

Hi @RiverRatMatt

Maybe you want to look at the BOG OUT recovery system - Link to Amazon. This is a rope harness that when one end is secured to an anchor point, the other end is designed to capture your wheel and as you slowly engage your engine, will TURN YOUR WHEELS into WINCHES and can be used in forwards or reverse.

There are no metal parts (use soft shackles instead of D-Rings), the angle of recovery is extremely efficient - it works upwards from under your wheel and BOG OUT is compact and light to carry (about 4lbs). BOG OUT uses very low stretch material so is very different from a snatch strap - there is no jerking and this is a controlled recovery.

Interested in your thoughts, BOG OUT is made in Australia where it has been successfully on the market for 5 years and we have just launched in the USA via Amazon.

Regards
Charlie, BOG OUT

 

[ChaseTruck]

In my K5, I carry a Hi-lift - as insurance so I'll never have to use it. It's bolted to the roll cage, so it's out of the way. The other Hi-lift used to ride in the FJ40, but for now is holding down the garage floor.

With the preface that I have no idea how well the Bog Out system would work - we just had two trucks stuck in the water last weekend, and attaching recovery gear to the wheels would have been possible, but also would have sucked - I'd say get a winch.

That said, I suppose the advantage of the Bog Out system would be that you could use it to pull your truck backwards out of a snow drift. That is not easily done with a winch, and the hitch-mounted systems sound good in theory, but need to be attached to the truck, and depending on the trail, that might not always be feasible.

On a side note:speaking of Hi-Lifts - last week, we were riding along with a volunteer crew signing trails in the Tonto National Forest outside of Phoenix, and picking up trash along the way. Along the usual assortment of empty beer cans, I found a bed sheet, a seat cover, some sneakers, and the 'lifting' part of a Hi-Lift. It was buried underneath a bunch of tree branches...

 

[Charlie Aubin]

In my K5, I carry a Hi-lift - as insurance so I'll never have to use it. It's bolted to the roll cage, so it's out of the way. The other Hi-lift used to ride in the FJ40, but for now is holding down the garage floor.

With the preface that I have no idea how well the Bog Out system would work - we just had two trucks stuck in the water last weekend, and attaching recovery gear to the wheels would have been possible, but also would have sucked - I'd say get a winch.

That said, I suppose the advantage of the Bog Out system would be that you could use it to pull your truck backwards out of a snow drift. That is not easily done with a winch, and the hitch-mounted systems sound good in theory, but need to be attached to the truck, and depending on the trail, that might not always be feasible.

On a side note:speaking of Hi-Lifts - last week, we were riding along with a volunteer crew signing trails in the Tonto National Forest outside of Phoenix, and picking up trash along the way. Along the usual assortment of empty beer cans, I found a bed sheet, a seat cover, some sneakers, and the 'lifting' part of a Hi-Lift. It was buried underneath a bunch of tree branches...

Hi @ChaseTruck - BOG OUT can be attached anywhere on your wheel, above where you are stuck in mud or water etc. But if fully submerged then I appreciate you might not want to get your frogman suit on. A key benefit is being able to get out of trouble in reverse - often easier to go back than forwards into the unknown. Here's a sandy river crossing recovery that we filmed: Watch YouTube 'Bogged in a Creek"

Thanks for your input.

 

[shelfboy1]

before I had a winch I used a good come along got me out of many stucks high lift not so much

 

[HandForged]

before I had a winch I used a good come along got me out of many stucks high lift not so much

As someone who deals with snow recovery several times a year. Myself and others, I am going to make a few suggestions. First of all, none of these options beat a winch. Even a cheap HF winch will be worth it's weight in gold if the time comes to need it. Second, a good set of tire chains are better than any recovery system out there. Buy the v-bar chains and learn to get them on and keep them tight. I go places with just chains on a stock truck that built offroad trucks without them have zero hope of going. They just flat work. Lastly, as was mentioned before. A come along.....they work slow but they do work. 50 percent better than a Hi lift.

Now I don't know what any of the options above listed cost but here are some facts for you. A 12,000 HF winch is on sale this month for 399 out the door. A good set of v-bar tire chains will cost about 150.00 per axle, so 300 for a full set. A good come along and a couple of decent tow straps will be much cheaper. For me here, I don't go anywhere without the chains. Every vehicle I have has at least set for one axle in it. Period. Everything else is in addition. Living in the mountains with constant ice and snow I consider that to be the minimum.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Now I don't know what any of the options above listed cost but here are some facts for you. A 12,000 HF winch is on sale this month for 399 out the door. ...

This ought to be the cue for the thread to turn towards 'Warn-M12000-or-bust'...

@Charlie Aubin : is there a US vendor for the Bog Out product?

 

[HandForged]

This ought to be the cue for the thread to turn towards 'Warn-M12000-or-bust'...

@Charlie Aubin : is there a US vendor for the Bog Out product?

Meh, just giving some cost perspective. Cost Vs usage for me is very important. I see too many trucks already running around with winch bumpers and covered winches running tires that wouldn't take them down a dirt road much less anywhere that a winch would get used. I have one on all my trucks. Tire chains and appropriate tires for the season. I rarely get stuck unless I'm doing something stupid but in those instances at least I know it before hand.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Meh, just giving some cost perspective. Cost Vs usage for me is very important. I see too many trucks already running around with winch bumpers and covered winches running tires that wouldn't take them down a dirt road much less anywhere that a winch would get used. I have one on all my trucks. Tire chains and appropriate tires for the season. I rarely get stuck unless I'm doing something stupid but in those instances at least I know it before hand.

My comment above was just from hanging around on this board for a long time...

But I'm with you on the cost/usage issue. The Ramsey REP 9.5 on my (somewhat portly...) K5 has done everything I've ever asked it to do for the past 12 years, either pulling myself, or others. Disclaimer here is that I 'wheel in the desert southwest, so, for most of the year no mud or water to speak of. Winch pulls are usually very short - to get the truck off a rock, or just over an obstacle.
I don't have anything to pull my own truck backwards, and that bog-out stuff has tickled my interest.

 

[cody c]

When I do a recovery I always assume my equipment will fail, if a chain snaps it will rip your head off if you're in its path. Personally I have very little experience with chains other than towing people down streets, but for a lightweight alternative i would get a recovery strap. If you use chains then common sense is key, ask yourself whats it rated for and dont do yanking recovery's. Also winching with a hi-lift is damn near impossible as i know from experience.

this guy has other videos that cover nearly all types of 4x4 recovery's.

Im gonna have to disagree with some of this...

Recovery straps are generally built to stretch, and take the "jar" out of the equation when the recovery vehicle takes a run at it.

They stretch and therefore store energy. This is ok for tugging a vehicle out. Actually ideal IMO...

Chains do not store energy in the same way, or likely store less energy (not that there isnt risks), unless you have them connected to a recovery strap, in which case if the break is on the chain, the recovery strap can launch them. But for this situation, chain typically has a higher breaking strength and for the leverage of a highlift may be well suited..

But... Chains are heavy, stored inside a vehicle they are more dangerous bouncing around then a recovery strap..

So, alternate to a recovery strap, a "tow strap" which is not typically made from material that has a high stretch to it are better than chain in some ways.

Think of it this way.. You use a recovery strap that wants to stretch with your high lift, since you only have like 36" or 40" of movement with your jack, by the time you get to the end of the movement all you have done is put stretch in your recovery strap. Not so with a chain, or perhaps a tow strap with low stretch. Not sure where all this "ripping your head off -common sense" is coming from.

Its beneficial to have both with you though. high stretch for vehicle to vehicle recovery. Low or no stretch for winching. Always know where the weakest link is, and recognize how energy is stored in straps. Furthermore, you don't always want too high of a strength with your recovery straps! They wont stretch when you want, and you will get more of a "jar" when the recovery vehicle takes up the slack at speed.

You do not want a tow strap to be used as a recovery strap for the "jar" issue, and can risk damage more from using one for this reason. Same for chains... I have heard of loggers using two chains, with an old truck tire in the middle as a doughnut to take up the shock in getting pickups out of mud for forestry work though (way back in the day)


Just my opinion /public service announcement.

For someone new to this, Id suggest spending more on recovery straps if you typically wheel with other folks, and a winch if you wheel solo (hunt explore) with a tree saver, block/gloves etc.

 

[Charlie Aubin]

This ought to be the cue for the thread to turn towards 'Warn-M12000-or-bust'...

@Charlie Aubin : is there a US vendor for the Bog Out product?

Hi @ChaseTruck - we are testing the US market via Amazon - we are open to distributor enquiries also. Here is a link to our store

 

[Charlie Aubin]

This ought to be the cue for the thread to turn towards 'Warn-M12000-or-bust'...

@Charlie Aubin : is there a US vendor for the Bog Out product?

Hi @ChaseTruck - we are testing the US market via Amazon - we are open to distributor enquiries also. Here is a link to our store