Carb or Spark? (1 Viewer)

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Jan 3, 2008
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Location
Medellin, Colombia
I've searched many times, followed advise from the forums, read and read again and still have a problem with my F Engine 1969 FJ40. It is a stock engine with an almost new 32/36 Weber DGAS carb. I live at around 4500 ft.

The problem is that when I set up the ignition timing to a point where the car runs almost ok, It won't start when cold unless I retard the ignition. If I leave the ignition at the point where it starts when cold, the performance is unbearable. Any intermediate point will give me an unstartable car or a poor performance.

I have tried:

1. Changed jettings on the carb using advise from the Weber Carb forum here, got better idle and great performance while only one bbl is open. When I step on the gas there is a flat spot in acceleration and "sputtering" like when condenser is faulty. If I back a little on the pedal, sputtering reduces and the engine starts gaining RPMs slowly. When going uphill, the power is not enough for increasing speed, only on flat roads backing on the pedal a little will increase speed. If I advance the ignition, it starts getting better but never ok even if it's advanced to the point where I get constant pinging under load or retarded to the point where it barely runs. I bought the altitude jetting kit and tried almost all possible combinations. Kept the "least worse" (Right now I have Primary Idle 65, Primary Air 190, Primary Main 135. Secondary Idle 50, Secondary Air 200, secondary main 145.)

2. Rebuilt head, new valves, new valve seats, slight polishing to ensure flattness. This increased power and smoothness of idle and low RPM but no change on high RPM or load. Timing gear was changed in this process. Compression is ok and less than 10mm difference between cylinders.

3. Rebuilt Dizzy (a non-usa vacumm advance). New points and condenser, no change. Electronic ingition, no change. Coil is a high voltage with external resistor.


What can cause a condition where you can't find an ignition timing that works both cold and gives good engine perfomance (Where I live, air temp never gets below 60 - 65)


Please help:eek:. I would hate to change the engine just because I can't get it tuned.
 
Do a search on vacuum advance and / or vacuum retard.

Issue may be in how you are set up with vacuum advance.

Don't change the engine, change the carb back to the stock Aisin.
 
Advance - Retard

When the engine is turning, the plastic thingy moves in (advances) and if I unhook it it goes out (retards)

My dizzy looks like this one (stolen pic from the forum) https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226504&stc=1&d=1209346449



I am hooking the vacuum from here
WeberDGEV_1.JPG
 
Could you be more specific about the "Won't start when cold" symptom?
Does it kick back against the starter?
Does it not fire at all, or just won't stay running?

Check the automatic choke, see if it is closing fully when cold, then opening fully after a few minutes.
 
ported

I assume that is ported vacuum there? is it above the butterfly?
or below it

hows the accel pump working?
 
You are struggling with more than one issue simultaneously, and that is not helping fix the situation.

My primary hunch is that the basic root of the problem is insufficient vacuum. Your elevation does not help. Accordingly, advancing the timing would increase the vacuum, getting the fuel to flow more efficiently thru the carb, but making the pistons struggle against the 'early' spark during startup.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you've got less than 14" of vacuum with standard timing.

You will have to run some checks to: a. look for vacuum leaks, and b. find ways other than advancing timing to improve vacuum in order to 'solve' this problem, rather than just masking the symptoms.

Do NOT bother changing for a stock carb at this point. The Weber and the Aisan both struggle about the same under poor vacuum conditions.

Best

Mark A.
 
Could you be more specific about the "Won't start when cold" symptom?
Does it kick back against the starter?
Does it not fire at all, or just won't stay running?

Check the automatic choke, see if it is closing fully when cold, then opening fully after a few minutes.


It turns slowly and never starts. It does kick back against the starter if it is too retarded. The choke is working ok, closing completely and slowly oponing (2 - 4 min till fully open)

I assume that is ported vacuum there? is it above the butterfly?
or below it

hows the accel pump working?

I asume it is below the butterfly but no way of telling because it is a built in tube in the carb and I don't know where it ends inside it.

You are struggling with more than one issue simultaneously, and that is not helping fix the situation.

My primary hunch is that the basic root of the problem is insufficient vacuum. Your elevation does not help. Accordingly, advancing the timing would increase the vacuum, getting the fuel to flow more efficiently thru the carb, but making the pistons struggle against the 'early' spark during startup.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you've got less than 14" of vacuum with standard timing.

You will have to run some checks to: a. look for vacuum leaks, and b. find ways other than advancing timing to improve vacuum in order to 'solve' this problem, rather than just masking the symptoms.

Do NOT bother changing for a stock carb at this point. The Weber and the Aisan both struggle about the same under poor vacuum conditions.

Best

Mark A.

Mark, I think you are on the right track. What could I do to improve vacuum? All the gaskets are new (manifold, carb base and carb adapter) and I have checked with ether and no change.

Thanks to all.
 
It turns slowly and never starts. It does kick back against the starter if it is too retarded.

This could be the issue.

The engine will not kick back against the starter if timing is too retarded.
Too retarded will make it lazy to start.

Too advanced will make it fire quick, but kick back against the starter.

Recheck the data and let us know.
 
Sorry, my mistake. At the point where the engine runs ok, it kicks back and won't start if cold. At the point where it starts going solw, the engine does start when cold but performance is real bad.
 
Mark, I think you are on the right track. What could I do to improve vacuum? All the gaskets are new (manifold, carb base and carb adapter) and I have checked with ether and no change.

Thanks to all.

And your vacuum reading is......?
 
Mark, I think you are on the right track. What could I do to improve vacuum? All the gaskets are new (manifold, carb base and carb adapter) and I have checked with ether and no change.

Thanks to all.


Make sure you check all of your hoses for your 4 wheel drive. If yuo still have the vacuum activated setup that is. That is where I found my vacuum leak. number 9 on this diagram. It would be a good idea to check all of the rubber hoses as well for rot and cracks.
072E.gif
 
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That setup was not used in the truks they shipped on 1969 to my country. Thanks

jtoro.

I just went thru this and spent money I did not have to.
Check for spark at the coil.
If okay- check the POINTS one more time. You may have fried them again. I bought a new weber 38 after rebulding a 32/36. Turns out You also need to have the ballast resistor . Check that and make sure it is okay.

After all the headaches I went thru, it was the points, so my 32/36 was probably good.

Also make sure you have your spark plug wires in the right place/firing order

just trying to check for easy fixes before you spend too much.

scott:beer:
 
And the winner is....


































Serendipity solved my problem...

This morning the battery died on me while trying to start it up on going to work. I definetly wanted to drive the FJ40 to work today so I took out the battery from my FJ90 Series (700CCA) and the car started easily even though the spark was in the "advanced" position where it would not fire up when cold!!!

Turned it on and of around 10 times, fine tuned the spark and the car is starting great when cold or hot!

I dint't consider the battery as a cause because it was almost new (6 months) and it worked ok when the spark was retarded so it wasn't in my list.

Lesson Learned: One of the causes for a hard to start engine is a weak battery :doh:

Thanks to all of you :eek:
 
battery

If I had a nickel for everytime i saw a problem get over complicated when the simplest thing fixed it---it's human nature.


I try to do troubleshooting tests instead of mentally rule things out but, really we all do it sometimes, dont we?:rolleyes:
 

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