Read this... http://www.dieselforecast.com/ArticleDetails.php?articleID=285
Great article, great site! (Thanks Robert!)
Great article, great site! (Thanks Robert!)
Canadian Diesel Market 'Ripe to Explode'
- Thread starter 83bj60
- Start date
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Great news!! Im sure the mericans will be proud of the canucks
If the small cars become more acceptable it could lead to japanese diesel 4x4
I would like to see some more small diesel cars on the market in oz
We only get the peaugot diesel convertable 60mpg, that I can think of. There were more but they seem have stopped selling them when fuel was cheaper
If the small cars become more acceptable it could lead to japanese diesel 4x4
I would like to see some more small diesel cars on the market in oz
We only get the peaugot diesel convertable 60mpg, that I can think of. There were more but they seem have stopped selling them when fuel was cheaper
Great news!! Im sure the mericans will be proud of the canucks
If the small cars become more acceptable it could lead to japanese diesel 4x4
I would like to see some more small diesel cars on the market in oz
We only get the peaugot diesel convertable 60mpg, that I can think of. There were more but they seem have stopped selling them when fuel was cheaper
I don't think the AUS market had quite the disapproval as the states against diesels.
As people in the states probably have this notion of either a semi with black smoke pluming from the exhausts or a tractor, especially in the ever so uptight California where you have tree huggers that ramble on and on about stuff they don't even know about and other environmentalists going crazy because they're still using statistics from the 70s when those dirty diesel trucks have been around.
I can understand that. It was like that here some time back until the traffic authority had the power to order vehicles in a for a visual inspection
I was behind a roadtrain on a country road with 2 trailers last week and watched his exhaust on a steep hill going through the gears.
It was spotless except for a minute wisp of smoke as he eased off the throtle to change gears.
Even american pick ups with V8 diesels are clean here
Its really just a maintenance thing
I think some of the American and Canadian anti-diesel sentiment can be traced to GM and their disaster with the 350 wanna-be diesel in the mid-'80's. If that engine could last 100,000 miles (60,000 miles or less was probably more common) you would be pretty happy. It was junk, GM knew it and did nothing to correct it.
I personally think that if GM hadn't had such a disaster with a diesel we'd have had way more diesels here long ago.
with all due respect, but this is just bull****.
as cruiser_guy correctly stated, most sentiments come from the 350 nightmare-engine.
California has enough big trucks with cummins and powerstrokes, and they are not beleagued by 'treehuggers'. If you ever bothered to look on the streets in California, then you will see that 3/4 of all cars are some huge ass SUVs, with an average mpg rating of 12. if your 'treehuggers' were so powerful, these cars would not be on the street.
The sentiment is aginst small cars, resulting from the ignorant idea that big SUVs are safe, and small cars are not. That's the main reason why it will take a long time before you see small japanese diesel cars here. every other schmuck drives in their excursion or avalanche or durango or suburban or LANDCRUISER alone, and will not touch a small car.
to bring imaginary 'treehuggers' into this and blame them, is plain ignorant.
I wish it will happen, but I am really sceptical, I think I will be milking my old diesel cruiser for a long time. Only real options we have now are the smart car(not a big fan) , huge domestic diesel trucks (just too big, especially now that the smallest of them all, 5.9 cummins is going to 6.4liter now), and maybe the VW TDI (if they bring it back in 08). I just can't see that changing anytime soon.
Cheers,
Deny
Cheers,
Deny
my biggest gripe with new diesels is the premium you have to pay to get one! I looked a liberty CRD. cool engine in a crappy vehicle! You pay I think it was a $5000 CDN premium to add the CRD on!!! That a hell of a lot of fuel you have to burn to make up that diffwerence! And with diesel prices slightly higher than gas prices it take even longer. I figured at least 10 years to pay off the difference and I drive 600 kms per week!
VW wasn't as bad but I need an SUV or at least an AWD for my commute.
VW wasn't as bad but I need an SUV or at least an AWD for my commute.
back in 02 i bought a golf tdi and it was only 2000 more than gas. it took roughly 100 000km to pay for the diffrance. supper happy now ith the car, however the diesel is being redesigned and is not available now. the way i see it is if you take care of your ride and dont mind driving a 20 year old car is worth the extra cash.
From what I have read on the net there is still plenty of americans that see diesels as filthy black smoke producing leviathans,Ive even seen newbies on the 60 forum say that when they find out toyota makes a diesel.
Of course the GM 350 nightmare is also in peoples minds,it was broadcast around the world.
However it was ,what 20 years ago now? I bet most 20 yo wouldnt even know what a 350 diesel was
I think it would be fair to say that there would be more than one hurdle to overcome when marketing diesels in the US.
Getting people to use a smaller car would be a major one
I used to have a jewish south african boss who knew nothing about engines except that diesels were smelly and polluting.
He thought my 1HZ ran on petrol for 6 months before I told him
- Thread starter
- #12
Sorry you feel offended... But why, of why are there no diesels available for these SUVs? a 15 year old Diesel Landcrusier can go all the way up to 28MPG whereas the gas model hardly does any better than 18! I had both an FJ40 (4 .2 litre 6 cylinder gas, 135HP) and now an HDJ81 (4.3 litre 6 cylinder diesel, 165HP) and guess how they compare:
FJ40: 12MPG(US)
HDJ81: 18MPG(US)
This is driving 25% 8 miles average and 75% 30 miles average, from cold start, normal traffic speeds ('go with the flow').
If we could have the diesel engine options that are available everywhere else in the world instead of being relegated to 15 or 25 year old technology like we are now, user figures could be even better.
Complaining about vehicle size is beside the point. What is really aggravating in north america (the US and it's yes-man Canada) is the lack of efficient, thrifty yet powerful diesel engines. Replace those wasteful gas engines with diesels, and you've reduced energy dependency from anywhere between 10% and 35% or even more, and CO2 emission as well.
If Europeans can make clean diesels, if Japanese can make clean diesels, why oh why is it so dificult to get any here. One word: protectionism. Enough protecting our auto giants, who have had plenty of time to delevelop diesels and probably have them on file. The problem is one of perception and misinformation, and consequent idiotic regulations by our brilliant policy makers.
'Tree huggers' as they are often referred to pejoratively and other 'concerned citizens' should realize diesels produce comparatively less carbon emissions than gas engines. The stuff that is unseen coming from gas engines is way more pernicious than the occasional black soot that comes out of modern diesels.
Told ya it was a good site, didn't I
Sorry you feel offended... But why, of why are there no diesels available for these SUVs? a 15 year old Diesel Landcrusier can go all the way up to 28MPG whereas the gas model hardly does any better than 18! I had both an FJ40 (4 .2 litre 6 cylinder gas, 135HP) and now an HDJ81 (4.3 litre 6 cylinder diesel, 165HP) and guess how they compare:
FJ40: 12MPG(US)
HDJ81: 18MPG(US)
This is driving 25% 8 miles average and 75% 30 miles average, from cold start, normal traffic speeds ('go with the flow').
If we could have the diesel engine options that are available everywhere else in the world instead of being relegated to 15 or 25 year old technology like we are now, user figures could be even better.
Complaining about vehicle size is beside the point. What is really aggravating in north america (the US and it's yes-man Canada) is the lack of efficient, thrifty yet powerful diesel engines. Replace those wasteful gas engines with diesels, and you've reduced energy dependency from anywhere between 10% and 35% or even more, and CO2 emission as well.
If Europeans can make clean diesels, if Japanese can make clean diesels, why oh why is it so dificult to get any here. One word: protectionism. Enough protecting our auto giants, who have had plenty of time to delevelop diesels and probably have them on file. The problem is one of perception and misinformation, and consequent idiotic regulations by our brilliant policy makers.
'Tree huggers' as they are often referred to pejoratively and other 'concerned citizens' should realize diesels produce comparatively less carbon emissions than gas engines. The stuff that is unseen coming from gas engines is way more pernicious than the occasional black soot that comes out of modern diesels.
Told ya it was a good site, didn't I
I think we are in complete agreement about the advantage of diesels.
I just doubt highly that 'treehuggers' will protest the introduction of small efficient diesel cars into the US.
A lot of truth, the typical American (and I lump Canadians into the same group) want a BIG truck with a BIG engine.
As for the 20 year old, most 20 year olds want something FAST!! That's why I got the '55!! I was my kids truck, we worked to restore it and she wants to go 130kmh (not that it matters that it's more than the speed limit anywhere in Canada) and the 'Cruiser doesn't like those speeds.
The biggest reason however is that proposed by 83bj60, PROTECTIONISM for Detroit and their crap. Detroit can't compete on the smaller vehicles or the diesels in the smaller vehicles so they advertise like crazy to convince all the lemmings that they NEED a V8 with a kazillion horsepower to drive to work and back in rush hour traffic! A pedal car would do fine in most rush hour traffic crawls!
No thanks Detroit but I'll keep my diesel 'Cruiser for long after most of the Detroit crap is recycled. Toyota USA/Canada, if you want to sell me another vehicle you'd best start to figure out how to bring diesel 'Cruisers back into this country 'cause until you do I'm NOT interested!!
There may be hope yet though. The "Smart" car is a diesel and is probably the smallest car on the road. It's popular now, we'll see how it is in a few years.
Large SUVs are still being hated against but they aren't imagined as puffing out black smoke.
Plus another point would be North America didn't have ULSD until recently..
I guess it's not treehuggers, I set off on the wrong tone. Just the market in general
Yeah, the big 3 are always complaining about the new fuel economy standards and asks for assistance from the government. While Honda and Toyota are doing perfectly fine with their CAFE standards and what not.
Anyone seen the Al Gore doco, An Inconveniant Truth.The profitable car companies are making high quality fuel effiicient cars while the unprofitable ones are making you know what
Maybe things will change with GB calling for a %20 drop in fuel usage.
And at the same time Ford has lost an all time record amount of money.
This could be the time the US vehicle manufacturers begin to take a good look at themselves.
.The profitable car companies are making high quality fuel effiicient cars while the unprofitable ones are making you know what Maybe things will change with GB calling for a %20 drop in fuel usage.
And at the same time Ford has lost an all time record amount of money.
This could be the time the US vehicle manufacturers begin to take a good look at themselves.
I know why Ford is dying,
in 1998 I bought a 1995 Powerstroke pick up with 125,000 (highway runs w/ 70+ year old guy owner). I thought I would make it to 250,000 with few questions.
Initially, the only things that did not work (and got me stuck twice) were the glow system and drivers seat belt was broken (and obsolete 2 years after production!?).
6 months later I had failures ever 2.5 weeks for 3 months. Water pump, clutch, clutch master (separate issue), brake master, injector, lift pump, starter, etc etc. The local Ford Stealer marked parts up 30% above suggected retail just for giggle. $4,000 in self installed and the out-sourced water pump and clutch jobs I had to get rid of it at any cost.
the only ford and the last one I'll ever own. And I thought the 1985 Chevy pick up was bad (S-10).
in 1998 I bought a 1995 Powerstroke pick up with 125,000 (highway runs w/ 70+ year old guy owner). I thought I would make it to 250,000 with few questions.
Initially, the only things that did not work (and got me stuck twice) were the glow system and drivers seat belt was broken (and obsolete 2 years after production!?).
6 months later I had failures ever 2.5 weeks for 3 months. Water pump, clutch, clutch master (separate issue), brake master, injector, lift pump, starter, etc etc. The local Ford Stealer marked parts up 30% above suggected retail just for giggle. $4,000 in self installed and the out-sourced water pump and clutch jobs I had to get rid of it at any cost.
the only ford and the last one I'll ever own. And I thought the 1985 Chevy pick up was bad (S-10).
- Thread starter
- #19
I think we are in complete agreement about the advantage of diesels.
I just doubt highly that 'treehuggers' will protest the introduction of small efficient diesel cars into the US.
The main complaint I hear from those who have never driven a diesel is similar to the complaints of those who have never driven a LHD and claim they are unsafe: they have no idea what they're talking about and furthermore, unfortunately for us, have the most political clout at this time in North America.
'But they're so dirty' is the litany. They forget that their gas models use 30% more fuel and therefore produce 35% more carbon dioxide. The trouble is, they forget about it while complaining about nitrous oxides and soot (particulate carbon), which are pollutants but certainly not with the same environmental impact than carbon dioxide!
So when I say 'Tree Huggers', I mean all those who are reasonably educated and well respected but unfortunately ill-informed, like the 'Concerned Scientists'. These folks certainly mean well but are totally blinded by their educated shortsightedness and fail to see the big picture. Typically American one could say...
This is exactly what the environmentalists should be pleased about but instead they bash diesels.
To me it's a no brainer, diesel is less refined which means less energy to produce, it goes further on that less refined fuel which further lessens the environmental impact, not to mention that diesel engines last longer so you don't need to melt down all those cars so often either, it's just a good deal all around.
I can't understand that folks don't see that.