Can you remove the V8 oil pump without pulling the motor?

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Nov 13, 2013
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Doing the timing belt, tensioners, water pump and seals and I discovered a bad leak from around the oil pump/crank seal area. Impossible to tell which one.

I’ve already pulled the bolts from the oil pump and cracked it off the block. Couldn’t figure why it wasn’t coming all the way off so checked the workshop manual to discover the first step is the pull the motor out.

This job is big enough already and I’m doing it all from a wheelchair!

Is there some other way of getting the bugger off or are we talking motor out?

Even if I can drop the engine crossmember and pull the sump if I have to, it would be easier than the motor.

Anyone done one on the 2UZ FE before?
 
I recently asked a respected cruiser mechanic about replacing the o ring on the oil pump. His quick response was that the motor had to come out. Not way to avoid it.😒
 
Actually a guy in mud did pull pans and oil pickup tube, which you must do to get oil pump off. He did this with the motor in. But really easier to pull motor. If you can do a timing belt job, you can pull the motor. It will be best to have some help during the lifting out and dropping in.

Toyota recommends pulling engine with transmission attached. You'd need more room in front of shop and need helper even more with trans attached and pulled as one unit. I've only done by leaving transmission in the vehicle.

I'd add, I've yet to have a oil pump leak issue. The place that a leak could be bad is at top of pump. There is and high pressure O-ring there. Most time the leak is coming from threads of bolt holding on pulley. They need a thread locker or FIPG 103 on threads. This leak is found after timing belt and pulleys has been changed before.

Read through here to get better idea of what your dealing with.
 
Dam wish I of read the owners manual first haha. Oh well i’ll Do the rear main and all other seals whilst I’ve got it out.

So it is possible to get the motor out without the trans? I’ve virtually unbolted everything already just waiting for some help to do the top bell housing bolts. They tight as all hell.

Thanks for the tip bout sealing the threads. Do not want to see any oil leaks on this motor after doing this!
 
Yes most seem to take out engine without transmission.

Wires on transmission and those from CPU behind glove box need disconnecting. Or remove wires from engine. Either way PITA.

You may be able to get all bell housing bolts from below. Long 1/2" extension with universal on the end with socket. I've done both starter bolts and bell housing bolts that way.
 
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Most time the leak is coming from threads of bolt holding on pulley. They need a thread locker or FIPG 103 on threads. This leak is found after timing belt and pulleys has been changed before.

Hello 2001LC. I am experiencing oil leaking around the oil pump after TB replacement. Do you know if this applies to the idler puller bolt? I didn't remove the tensioner bolt so I know it's good however I didn't apply tread locker on the idler pulley bolt. I hope this is the case and not the oil pump seal. I did go back and inspect everything and the cam seals is dry, water pump area is also dry so I know it's not leaking down. Crank seal was replaced and it look good.​

I went back and look at the before pix and the pump is bone dry.​

Attached is a pix of before I replaced TB and after when leaking.​


Screenshot_20211208-193435_Gallery.jpg


Screenshot_20211208-193452_Gallery.jpg
 
First, both oil pans must be removed to remove oil pick up tube (which is attached to oil pump by two studs & nuts). Which pick-up tube must first be remove, to remove oil pump. Whereas pans can be removed with engine in. It very difficult and even more difficult to keep dry of oil to reseal pans with FIPG during install. With engine out those things aren't difficult.

Second:
I've yet to see a factory installed oil pump FIPG seal leak or oil pan FIPG seal for that matter. They are sealed with a the very best FIPG, at factory.

I see many timing belt tensioner bolt leaks. They always leak if removed and not sealed. I see crank seal leaks about 30% of time, after they've been replace. Yet to see either factory sealed ones leak.

You're last picture is not clear enough for me to actually see a leak. I does look a little wet and dirty, at bottom, an pan seal is glistening a tiny bit, again hard to see. Really inconclusive. Around crank sprocket looks wiped, more like not cleaned well, at time crank seal replaced. Whereas first before picture looks cleaned and perfectly dry. The tenersoner bolt does not look like a leak, but again inconclusive. If 10mm tensioner pulley assembly allen bolt not removed and not leaking before T-belt job. Than not likely leaking now.

I see in first picture, tensioner pulley removed from it's assemble, as you stated. We do not replace just pulley as a general rules. We remove to 10mm allen head bolt and replace tensioner pulley assembly. In fact in comes as an assembly, and Toyota does not even give us a torque spec for pulleys nut IIRC. It is only the threads on that 10mm allen bolt that leaks, if not sealed. As it goes through oil pump housing.

Why did you pull t-belt covers in the first place?
Did you see oil coming from weep hole? Pictures?
How many miles and how long age, since last T-belt service?
Did you wipe around crank sprocket, "before" pictures taken?
Can you get clear pictures?

Rule of thumb:

Get pictures of and wet/oily areas, study them and take more pic's if needed to clearly see before cleaning or disassembly.
Clean area spotless. taking more pictures to see/document it is spotless and dry.
Drive and inspect after each drive, to pinpoint leaks first appearance. Document with very clear pictures.
Keep in mind oil travels Up, Down and Around. Like a leak from oil filter it or oil cooler housing/bracket. The more time the more it travels.

There is a spot that weeps a bit over time. It's the O-ring at top of oil pump. Typically not bad enough to be of concern and takes about 90K miles to show at timing cover weep hole if at all. Most times we just see at top of oil pump during T-belt service. One thing that can cause this O-ring to be more of a leak and all rubber seals to leak for that matter. Is using HM oil (High Mileage oil). Use it 2 oil changes and we get bad leaks. Stuff is very bad and should never be used.

Here's the O-ring at top of oil pump. Not saying this or any below your leak/weep.
Oil Pump (13).JPG

Here's back side of oil pump. Circled is where tensioner pulley assembly 10mm bolt comes through housing of oil pump.
Oil Pump (12).JPG

Here's oil pick up tube attach to oil pump still on block
Oil pick-up tube.JPG

here's an oil filter bracket leak at block, which oil sending unit (your left upper corner) is attached to filter housing and can also leak. Oil pan front area seal (your lower left), near t-cover weep hole is wet here from bracket leak.
Engine running oil leak at pump to oil fliter flange 5-10-18 (1).jpg

Here's a tensonser 10mm allen bolt leak, after cleaning a driving and watching.
Weep hole 11-2-19c.jpg
 
I had to change out my oil pump last winter due to the PO stripping the threads on the tensioner pulley mount.

I just pulled out the front diff and removed the upper and lower oil pan.

It was a relatively straight forward job. Sealing the pan was not an issue. Once the diff is out there is a lot of room to work.

I definitely would not bother pulling the engine.

Would it be easier with the engine out. Ya of course. Is it necessary? Definitely not.
 
Don't mean to detract from the convo, but this is the first I've heard anyone throw shade at "High Mileage" oil. Why is it bad to use it?
 
HM oil. Is a petroleum based seal modifier. It swell rubber seals. Mobil One tech support, if asked. Will say: If used for two oil changes, must then be used for life of vehicle.

People see label and think, heck that my rig with 100K, 200k, 300k miles. Must be what in need. It's is not.
 
I had to change out my oil pump last winter due to the PO stripping the threads on the tensioner pulley mount.

I just pulled out the front diff and removed the upper and lower oil pan.

It was a relatively straight forward job. Sealing the pan was not an issue. Once the diff is out there is a lot of room to work.

I definitely would not bother pulling the engine.

Would it be easier with the engine out. Ya of course. Is it necessary? Definitely not.
Been a few pulling pans engine in, posting in mud.. Either way work, if you know what your doing.

If they/you got seal surface for pan perfectly dry of oil and moved fast to torque pan in, You're Golden. But if any oil on FIPG seal surfaces. ANY. It will leak/weep sooner or later. Issue is, oil moving down block internally. I've had engine on stand for weeks, and oil just keeps running down block sides.

With engine out, on a stand. Simple to roll over and work bottom up. I'm not a fast at all. But know some here in town that boast 2 hours on engine pull. It's just that i that bad a job pulling, really.
 
Why did you pull t-belt covers in the first place?
Did you see oil coming from weep hole? Pictures?
How many miles and how long age, since last T-belt service?
Did you wipe around crank sprocket, "before" pictures taken?
Can you get clear pictures?

Thank you for the information.

I took the t-belt covers off to inspect the leak.
Yes there's oil running down the weep hole.
Current 260k. T belt was replaced 8k miles ago this is why i know the leak was new from looking at the before and after pix.
No wipe down.
I can get clearer pix but will have to take the covers off.

Another question I have is could it be the crank seal? Again I replaced everything about 8k miles ago. Or just a bad luck o ring went bad on oil pump. I did use Mobil 1 HM.

From the before and after picture i attached is within 8k miles apart. To me that's plenty of leaks you think?
 
Thank you for the information.

I took the t-belt covers off to inspect the leak.
Yes there's oil running down the weep hole.
Current 260k. T belt was replaced 8k miles ago this is why i know the leak was new from looking at the before and after pix.
No wipe down.
I can get clearer pix but will have to take the covers off.

Another question I have is could it be the crank seal? Again I replaced everything about 8k miles ago. Or just a bad luck o ring went bad on oil pump. I did use Mobil 1 HM.

From the before and after picture i attached is within 8k miles apart. To me that's plenty of leaks you think?
Could be crank seal. With crank sprocket off makes easier to tell. With time capillary action, the oil creeps up & out also, which takes time. I would suspect we'd see more wetness area just under sprocket, than above or to sides. Seems with my old eyes, to be same top, sides & bottom. Leak point is usually wetes.

Also o-ring suspect.
In your first picture nice and dry except along oil FIPG seal of pump. This is a typically weep from O-ring, as work it's way down and of no concern.


Screenshot_20211208-193435_Gallery.jpg

In you after picture I can't see that same sprocket area wet. For 8k mile crank seal leak, it would likely be wetter below not same around. But 8k does not tell me how long since job. Nore how bad leak. If you were drip oil, that is a bad one.

Also If those pockets arrows point to wet. Could be oil leak from O-ring. As that have to be very bad crank seal leak to get that far up and into pocket in short time.
Screenshot_20211208-193452_Gallery.jpg

I've done a ton of timing belt job. Not once have I replaced the seal on crank or cams. Only once have I found a factory installed cam or crank seal "possibly" weeping. That was on a RH cam VVT 4.7L. So minoir not worth dealing with, as they not the same as non VVT to replace. Much more labor cost.

Get that HM oil & filter out now. Use just the regular M1 synthetic 5W-30 or EP (extended preforamanc good for 1yr or 20K miles). Add ~10 oz AT-205 r when you can get the stuff, about a 1K later. It may help slow or stop effects of HM oil.


Here is a very bad 10mm bolt leak. This took only about 10K miles and 2 months to get everywhere. The whole are wet and gunky. Shop did T-belt job said it's a pan leak. I proved it was not. Simply by cleaning spotless and watch after every drive. Seeing wet at side first, is sure bet, 10mm bolt leak and a bad one. The crank seal may be leaking also, as same shop charged for replacement of it, we don't know yet. Shop said they replaced cam seal also, and charged for parts. Totally BS. This is a VVT engine. No way they did the belt and cam seals job for $700 labor. Just one VVT cam seal cost more than that at most any shop. We're just letting leak go for now. We'll address at next timing belt service. Now it being a VVT engine, is a bit risky. So I recommended we do T-belt earlier than later. But a non VVT I'd not be worried in the least. Risk is belt getting oily. This could (not will) damage belt. In your pictures belt looks fine and dry, from what little i can see.
080.JPG


078.JPG
 
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This post is really helpful. I was doing the timing belt job on mine the other day the the bolt that holds the tensioner stripped out. I was really hoping you could replace the oil pump without having to drop both oil pans. Apparently that is not the case though. Even still though. I already have the steering rack removed along with all of the timing components. Trying to decide if I want to just go ahead and drop what's necessary to get the pans off and do the pump. Or do I just want to put a time sert in the existing oil pump and call it done.
 
Thanks a bunch @2001LC. I'm going to buy a new crank seal, Tear everything apart and replace it incase and hope for the best. Clean the area well and then let it idle with all the covers off to see if I can see leaks anywhere. Here's another picture I was able to find after the leak. If it helps. Again thanks!

Fyi: job was done this July. I purchased the car and went straight into doing the TB..
 
Could be crank seal. With crank sprocket off makes easier to tell. With time capillary action, the oil creeps up & out also, which takes time. I would suspect we'd see more wetness area just under sprocket, than above or to sides. Seems with my old eyes, to be same top, sides & bottom. Leak point is usually wetes.

Also o-ring suspect.
In your first picture nice and dry except along oil FIPG seal of pump. This is a typically weep from O-ring, as work it's way down and of no concern.


View attachment 2860106
In you after picture I can't see that same sprocket area wet. For 8k mile crank seal leak, it would likely be wetter below not same around. But 8k does not tell me how long since job. Nore how bad leak. If you were drip oil, that is a bad one.

Also If those pockets arrows point to wet. Could be oil leak from O-ring. As that have to be very bad crank seal leak to get that far up and into pocket in short time.
View attachment 2860105
I've done a ton of timing belt job. Not once have I replaced the seal on crank or cams. Only once have I found a factory installed cam or crank seal "possibly" weeping. That was on a RH cam VVT 4.7L. So minoir not worth dealing with, as they not the same as non VVT to replace. Much more labor cost.

Get that HM oil & filter out now. Use just the regular M1 synthetic 5W-30 or EP (extended preforamanc good for 1yr or 20K miles). Add ~10 oz AT-205 r when you can get the stuff, about a 1K later. It may help slow or stop effects of HM oil.


Here is a very bad 10mm bolt leak. This took only about 10K miles and 2 months to get everywhere. The whole are wet and gunky. Shop did T-belt job said it's a pan leak. I proved it was not. Simply by cleaning spotless and watch after every drive. Seeing wet at side first, is sure bet, 10mm bolt leak and a bad one. The crank seal may be leaking also, as same shop charged for replacement of it, we don't know yet. Shop said they replaced cam seal also, and charged for parts. Totally BS. This is a VVT engine. No way they did the belt and cam seals job for $700 labor. Just one VVT cam seal cost more than that at most any shop. We're just letting leak go for now. We'll address at next timing belt service. Now it being a VVT engine, is a bit risky. So I recommended we do T-belt earlier than later. But a non VVT I'd not be worried in the least. Risk is belt getting oily. This could (not will) damage belt. In your pictures belt looks fine and dry, from what little i can see.
View attachment 2860119

View attachment 2860113
What is the part # for this bolt that the arrow points to? I had my TB/WP changed in Aug and 2300 miles later, this bolt is gone and I have a massive leak much worse then this picture.
 
I don't know which arrow you're speaking of. The 10mm allen bolt holds on tensioner pulley (NO. 1 Timing belt idler sub-assembly).

004.JPG
 
I don't know which arrow you're speaking of. The 10mm allen bolt holds on tensioner pulley (NO. 1 Timing belt idler sub-assembly).

View attachment 2910622
The 10mm bolt you arrowed that was the source of the leak

"Here is a very bad 10mm bolt leak. This took only about 10K miles and 2 months to get everywhere. The whole are wet and gunky. Shop did T-belt job said it's a pan leak. I proved it was not. Simply by cleaning spotless and watch after every drive."
 

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