Camber Bolts for Caster Correction?

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kbahus

kbahus

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Has anyone tried using adjustable camber bolts to adjust caster? I can get 16mm bolts from SPC here in Longmont. Theoretically it should do the same thing as an offset bushing but you can fine tune it. Just wonder why I have never seen this done before, there is usually a reason :doh:
 
It's not a jeep. Where our control arms pivot off of a single axis on the front axle. You might be confused with a caster plate/bolt assembly. IIRC
 
A camber bolt by definition is adjustable.

The bolt goes through a off center hole in the companion washer.

In the case of the Land Cruiser you would have to fabricate shoulders on the suspension component that the washer can "lean" against for lack of better term. That adjustment may not provide a wide enough range to solve the problem. Overall the bushings and caster plates are a simpler solution just more costly from the material aspect but cheaper in labor. Once set there is no need to adjust on a regular basis like you would in a standard alignment.
 
kbahus said:
Just wonder why I have never seen this done before, there is usually a reason :doh:
Click to expand...


There is no market. That kind of adjustment is really the domain of performance street and track cars.

Plus on an 80 series you can never maintain a specific setting as the alignment constantly changes as the axle moves in relation to the body
 
Im confused as caster and camber are two different things. Caster is the angle on the axle, camber is the angle on the tire.

Are you trying to correct for lift? If so, a lot of work, but if done right, could offer better suspension tuning. Or is your axle housing bent causing your tires to be at an angle and you're trying to adjust for that?
 
I think I get what you are talking about: The caster/camber adjuster assemblies on the upper control arms of many unit body cars from the 1970s on. No bolt I know of is going to change caster or camber by itself.

This type of caster adjuster is a bad idea for 80s. You would have to modify the brackets to accept the adjuster assembly, and you would only have a couple degrees of adjustment. The main problem is that they are too weak to serve on the lower control arm. They would get out of adjustment every time you hit a bump hard. Even on upper control arms of small cars, they are notorious for moving and getting out of alignment when you bump a curb. Sometimes we would tack weld them in place after setting the alignment on problem cars.
You are better off just doing the washer caster correction. Less work, more durable.
 
this works. it has been done before.

it is much easier to use caster plates, weld-in washers, caster bushings, or caster corrected control arms. however, those methods will not allow you to adjust caster - especially between R & L - once installed to "fine tune" it. But, as mentioned, on these trucks with this axle and suspension it is hardly something worth the time and effort.
caster_camber hybrid.webp
 
In theory - yes.

But since you haven't done this modification - or at least haven't shown it - and haven't then put it on an alignment computer and actually adjusted it to get the caster that was initially a couple of degrees separate to be the same...well, whatever.
 
This is a bolt in, no modification type of thing. I figure the cam on the bolt provides enough movement to do something with the caster. Plus a pair are $20 bucks.

This is the camber bolt I am talking about:
SPC Subaru Camber Bolts- Whats in the Box? - YouTube
 
Found this:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/28325-slees-new-caster-plates-3.html#post296865

Looks like an easy way to get adjustable caster, and you can adjust per side.

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I wouldn't imagine you'd need to adjust caster per side, however, unless something was wrong (bent/twisted axle housing, bent bracket, etc).



kbahus said:
This is a bolt in, no modification type of thing. I figure the cam on the bolt provides enough movement to do something with the caster. Plus a pair are $20 bucks.

This is the camber bolt I am talking about:
SPC Subaru Camber Bolts- Whats in the Box? - YouTube
Click to expand...


You'd have to modify the bracket to work with this. If you're doing that, might as well go with Photoman's route.
 
clownmidget said:
In theory - yes.

But since you haven't done this modification - or at least haven't shown it - and haven't then put it on an alignment computer and actually adjusted it to get the caster that was initially a couple of degrees separate to be the same...well, whatever.
Click to expand...


There are some things that are so intuitively obvious that you don't have to put it on an alignment rack to know that rotating one end of a solid axle housing will also rotate the other end.
 
Pin_Head said:
There are some things that are so intuitively obvious that you don't have to put it on an alignment rack to know that rotating one end of a solid axle housing will also rotate the other end.
Click to expand...

'Tis true, but think about the strain that would be created on the axle by only rotating one side.
 
Pin_Head said:
There are some things that are so intuitively obvious that you don't have to put it on an alignment rack to know that rotating one end of a solid axle housing will also rotate the other end.
Click to expand...

I won't count on your intuition to dial in caster specs. That solid axle housing is floating on three bushings per side, plus whatever springs you happen to be running with variation between the L & R, & who knows what most folks have in the way of tweaked axle housings - all affecting caster. So when you get your truck on the alignment rack at static ride height and have the ability to move one of those front mounts on one side yhou can indeed change one side +/1 at least 2-degrees - or just eye-ball it on gut feeling...
 
rove_mcanus said:
You can't adjust the castor side to side on a solid axle. As you rotate one side to adjust, the other will follow. All you would be doing is loading up the bushes which would cause premature wear.
Click to expand...

That's kinda my point. Generally speaking, you wouldn't be adjusting it differently from one side to the other unless the axle housing was bent or warped.

Though it's not universally true that if you adjust one side the other will follow. Ask anyone who's run the poor man's three link (hitch pin mod) and had trouble getting the hitch pin back in.

The arm-to-axle mount is what adjusts the caster. So if it was absolutely impossible to adjust the caster on one side without the other following, in theory I should be able to take out the hitch pin and put it back in at any point in time, as it'd always line up. But that's not true. In fact, that arm has pivoted enough to damage some folks mounts, which tells me that it can move around a lot.

As clownmidget was trying to get at, it's not quite as simple as you (and Pin Head) are making it out to be. You could go extreme negative caster on one side, and extreme positive caster on the other, and actually get that. Your axle would pivot in a very odd (and dangerous) fashion, but it'd do it. The only reason it can do this is because it's not fixed, because the arms are free to move up and down, the axle will pivot around the two remaining points that don't change (the rear mounting points).

What you'd end up with is an axle that looks a lot like it would if the hitch pin was out and the front end was flexed. Basically you'd have one side that was shorter (height wise) than the other, and said shorter side would also be further forward than the taller side. The rear would compensate somewhat, but I bet that the body would have a lean to it (if you went far enough).

Now obviously this is taking things to the extreme. But I hope this illustrates how it is actually possible to set caster per side (as clownmidget was saying).

In reality, in the very small amounts we're adjusting caster, it probably wouldn't make any more difference than loading up the bushings and causing wear or tear. But it's certainly possible for someone who didn't understand what they were doing to get themselves into a situation where the vehicle becomes dangerous to drive (E.G. adding adjustable caster to only one arm, and leaving the other fixed).
 
I don't plan on adjusting just one side. I also have a $10k alignment machine at my disposal so it will not be done blind. I have been doing a fair amount of thinking about this because I don't want to piss away $20 bucks just yet. I believe I will run into one of two problems. The first problem is that the cam simply will not allow enough adjustment to get my 2" lift back in spec. The other is the actual head and threaded portion of the camber bolt is smaller than 16mm to accommodate the cam which is 16mm. Since the radius arms moves a lot and is not fixed like a strut I am worried that after use it will clunk and clank around and round out the holes in the bracket. On the threaded end I could tack weld a smaller washer to the bracket but I can't do that to the head of the bolt due to the tabbed washer that the camber bolt uses. So I am not really sure if I should sacrifice some money toward learning and science or just buy some bushings.
 
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